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@danix avatar
UTC

Hooked
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
 
Hooked
@danix avatar
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
UTC quote
On a modern Vespa, say a GTS250ie, does the charging system put out more voltage at speed? I know that voltage when the throttle is on will be a little higher than at idle, but is the voltage any different at 3mph vs 30mph?
If it is, does this also apply to an LX150, LX50, etc?

I'm trying to help debug a problem we noticed with the Comagination headlight flasher, and this would be useful to know.

Thanks!
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@danix avatar
UTC

Hooked
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
 
Hooked
@danix avatar
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
UTC quote
Comagination reports back that the problem is with our scooters. Could he be right that we have this crazy fluctation going on? Wouldn't our ECUs be failing left and right?

Quote:
Dan...
You are correct that voltage output from the alternator/generator should be about constant and no greater than 15 vdc at all speeds. When an alternator is failing it could produce voltage spikes greater than 15 vdc (hopefully the vehicle is under warranty). This can be verified by testing the alternator output with an oscilloscope which will show the spikes. Voltmeter will not show it.

This spike issue symptom is shown by the headlight modulator as rapidly increasing in modulation speed with engine rpm increase - more frequent spikes in vehicle wiring. This overdrives the modulator design operating range of 15 vdc max. This modulator symptom becomes an early warning that the alternator is not operating properly. This spike problem can also overdrive brake flashers. Suggest you fix the vehicle under warranty. Letting the problem remain by blaming the modulator will cost the vehicle owner lots of money later for out of warranty repairs. Spikes can cause other damage like early battery failure or ECU damage. It's the silent killer. Hope this helps.

We offer a headlight modulator with a spike suppressor built-in - special order. This is only a band aid and does not fix the alternator problem but keeps the modulation correct.
@cincinnati_john avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie - sold and gone
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2023
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
 
Ossessionato
@cincinnati_john avatar
'07 GTS-250ie - sold and gone
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2023
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
UTC quote
I'm not intimate with the internals or performance of the voltage regulator (and maybe the time for that has come), but I'd be very very suprised if the output of the regulator isn't filtered. I think he's blowing smoke.
And I don't think a warranty claim would fly, either. The warranty doesn't cover incompatibility with non-Piaggio accessories.
@boondocks avatar
UTC

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black 09 GTS 250 Super "Miranda", 05 Stella (sold)
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Posts: 396
Location: Lost Twixt Denver and Wyoming
 
Hooked
@boondocks avatar
black 09 GTS 250 Super "Miranda", 05 Stella (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 396
Location: Lost Twixt Denver and Wyoming
UTC quote
I'm starting to think comagination is wrong, but of course, I'm still on for my oscilloscope test. That will be the definitive answer as it will track it instantaneously and over different RPMs.

Reason is that poster with two GTS that first tried the normal modulator...then the overvoltage protected special order one that is stated by comagination to fix the symptom (but not the source of problem) and flash properly---did NOT work either. Combine that with TWO GTS installs that the poster did and it is very improbable that our GTS Vespas really do have an alternator issue. I did the standard checks on mine per shop manual and 100% passed.

And I can tell you that the voltage more or less held between 13.92 and 14.23 volts as I revved from idle up to 5000rpm. That's close. At idle it was 14.23 with low beam on. It's affected by what's running too. Idle at high beam was 14.13

13.92 to 13.98 between just above idle to 5k rpm.

But the oscilloscope will give a most accurate picture. I think this guy IS blowing smoke and I'm paying about $230 to find out...even if I get a refund.

$80 install in headset because I didn't want to rip headset apart myself.

$45-$140 for oscilloscope test done by an alternator expert shop.

Another $80 to rip everything out after I prove the alternator is healthy and the comagination thing can (for some) be junk.
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@danix avatar
UTC

Hooked
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
 
Hooked
@danix avatar
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
UTC quote
Someone just rigged up a scope (see other thread).
The short of it is that yes, there's lots of electrical noise and the comagination device is susceptible to it. The fix is to add a $2 capacitor to the electrical system and the issue is solved.

I emailed comagination to ask for their opinion.
@cincinnati_john avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie - sold and gone
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2023
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
 
Ossessionato
@cincinnati_john avatar
'07 GTS-250ie - sold and gone
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2023
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
UTC quote
danix wrote:
Someone just rigged up a scope (see other thread)..
Link?
OP
@danix avatar
UTC

Hooked
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
 
Hooked
@danix avatar
2012 GTS300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 192
Location: Alamo, CA
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