Modern Vespa

There's been a noticeable uptick in vintage content on Modern Vespa lately. I won't pretend to fully understand why (although I could make some guesses) but I've been puzzling over exactly what to do about it for the last couple of months.

Rather than shun it, the moderators and I have decided to embrace it. Effective immediately, there's a Not-So-Modern Discussion area for subjects that are definitively Not Modern. That includes questions about pretty much any classic or vintage scooter, Vespa or otherwise.

I know that people are going to want some kind of clarification about what constitutes modern and where the cutoff line is, so I'll draw a line in the sand: the ET2 and ET4 are more-or-less the "official" departure point for modern Vespas. I could probably be convinced to include the Vespa Sfera in that class, but the PX150 (even the really recent ones) are decidedly not modern Vespas. And don't even try to pawn off the Cosa on the modern side. That ship has sailed.



Oh, and you'll never guess who the new moderator for the new section is...

Props to you Jess and the Mods, I love Modern Vespa.

Manny

All in all, probably a good move, Jess.

In my very exhaustive and scientific survey of one MV member, I found that he reads the general scootering, NSR and modern machines posts for entertainment value, and the posts on shifties for information. He said that he now has a way to sort the two out. He hopes that MV members will keep the generic stuff on the original forum and reserve the shifty form for truly shifty related posts. He said that he can then enjoy general scooter fellowship on the general forum, resulting in an undivided community.

So, let's all have fun on the original forum and we shifties will spend some of our time on shifty issues on that forum.

My respondent said he absolutely no issues with you shiftless scooterists.

Al

oo oo oo! I know I know!

(but I cheated.)

Just one new mod?

Fearless Leader, would it be safe to assume any question/post that has to do with a shifty scooter could safely be posted in this new forum?


Modern & Vintage Owner
Manny

This is great. I always try to do a pretty exhaustive search before new posts about vintage, but it's nice to know we can all get along Thanks for creating this new section - I think I'll head over there right now.....

Thank you!

I lusted after a GTS for two years, lurking here the entire time. During my "lurk" I was convinced by those in the know here that I could successfully own and work on a P200.

So I bought one. I love the bike but have a lot to learn. I hope to learn from the good people here.

This is a good move. I would guess that like myself, several others have modern Vespa's (2008 LX150 here) plus have an old scoot in the background (75 Super). I have nowhere else that I have found to ask the vintage questions, and there are numerous people on here with experience on them. Good move.

Excellent addition. This appeals to the vintage enthusiasts and people like me that have absolutely no interest in old scooters other than looking at them! Thank you.

Very cool indeed.

Thanks.

cool, makes sense now that I think about it - good choice on the mod too

Thank you Jess! I don't think it will be a problem for the forum as many including myself currently have feet on both sides of the line. And my ET has nothing to fear, it is still my main ride

Excellent decision.

Cripes! Looks like I changed my avatar right in time...

Interesting change, Jess. Congrats on implementing it.

Cosa not vintage - not modern - timeless!!

More like "stuck between a rock and a hard place".

stuck between an ugly and a fugly place.

why segregate the vv posts? I think it's interesting and educational for the mv owners and helps tie everybody together instead of splitting them apart.

I agree with this. I understand why Jess decided to split the two, but I have learned so much about vintage bikes from the SMALL amount of vintage posts. I am currently searching for a vintage restoration project for this winter from these posts. But alas, vintage is only two clicks away from MV...

HIIIIGH FIVE!

What if questions about modern bikes were posted in the vintage section of ScooterBBS? Would that be educational for the vv owners? Would it tie us all together?

Bad analogy. You know the difference - at least I think you would know the difference by now. Modern Vespa never belonged there in the first place. Until you have struggled to keep an old bike on the road and traveled to a bunch of ghetto-ass out of state rallies you may never understand that. That forum was created by and for some pretty hardcore enthusiasts and being rude and lewd has always been part of the fun. Either you enjoy that oe you don't. Your call.

I like both forums, as you know, and I think each has it's place but I see no reason you should be afraid to be different. I see this forum as being like Amerivespa and the BBS being like A camping rally in the Jemez with drunks, drugs and nudity. Both types of rallies are fun - just like both types of forums are fun - but they don't necessarily mix.

I have been at the BBS since 1996. Trust me, reacting to the BBS is silly - let this forum be this forum and that forum be that forum and don't worry about it. That's my $.02. You have created something unique with a heartbeat of it's own. Be proud enough of it to ignore the detractors.



-Colin

My post from the vintage guidelines thread:
Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:26 am
jess wrote:
thefuzzylogic wrote:
Maybe so, but I'd be willing to forgo it to avoid the risk of widening the modern/vintage divide.

My thought is that having a Not-So-Modern area within the confines of Modern Vespa can't possibly create any larger of a divide than the already substantial one that exists between MV and ScooterBBS. If anything, it has the potential to lessen that divide by breathing some new life into a subject that has become somewhat stagnant at other forums.



I agree with Jess, plus MV members are more mature and open to both types of scooters. Alot of MV members will be purchasing Vintage scoots, so why force them to go elsewhere and deal with the childern posting on those other boards, when they can post here in a mutually respectfull forum.

The people who push for the Vintage Only agenda are fast becoming a minority in the scooter community, they will have to evolve or die out. Modern Vespa sales will continue to grow as Vintage scoots become more and more scarce. It up to veterans like me and others who own both ,to help MV riders with there vintage scoots in a none judgemental or condisending way. Thats one way to keep us united.

As for making more work for Jess and the Mods, thats where we in the community need to police ourselves, through peer pressue and telling offensive posters "We dont do that here, or we dont except that here" , go to blah blah .com for that.

I think this is going to make MV a better place, a more open place, a place where adults can come, post, ask questions and help others, regardless of how long someones been riding and/or what type of Vespa you own.

Props to Jess

Sincerely
Progressive
Manny

So far, the response to the new forum section seems largely positive. What's the big deal about having to click a button to see content specifically sorted by topic? If modern riders are interested, it's right there, just click the button.

It wasn't actually an analogy. It was literally an inversion of terms, which highlighted your implied statement that modern riders need to be "educated", which I politely but summarily reject. There's more technology in these bikes than any previous Vespa ever made, and some of us have endeavored to explore it, understand it, and even improve it, all in an effort to go faster and farther than ever before. I think perhaps the ScooterBBS crowd could use some brushing up on the new technology, but I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for them to embrace it.

Put another way, if you found my inverse version of your statement annoying and without merit, how do you think your original version appeared to me? I don't think you'll get any argument from me. I think that was the point of me creating MV in the first place, yes? If I had a nickel for every time I've had to listen to a vintage guy go on about how I just don't understand, I'd be... well, I'd have a lot of nickels, that's for sure. Maybe I do understand and I don't really care? Maybe there's much less to understand than you all make it out to be? Maybe my interest is centered on something that is equally poorly understood by the vintage guys? You never know. I might have more life experiences than you give me credit for. I just might not lord those experiences over everyone else as if my background in [_____] trumps all else. And I would never dream of denying them their chosen forum. They're welcome to it. Last I checked, Modern Vespa was a very different place than ScooterBBS. Ask anyone, here or there. Ask Thom. He makes a regular point of telling me how he wouldn't run MV the way I do. Actually, I think you might be the only person on the face of the planet who seems to be confused about this point.

Viva la difference! What makes you think I'm reacting to the BBS? And what on earth makes you think that the two forums are not already completely different?!? Because I'm offering a place for vintage content here? It was already happening. I'm just letting it have a life of its own. Just as I could see a clear need for Modern Vespa three years ago, I can now see a clear need for a better, more welcoming place for vintage content, where the answer isn't always "It's already been discussed! Do a search next time, you fuckwit!" The suggestion that I'm doing this out of insecurity is duly noted. I am not, in fact, insecure about Modern Vespa, nor am I doing anything because of what my detractors have said. I am simply exploiting an opportunity to fill a niche that isn't currently being filled. People will either use it or they won't.

Kind of like capitalism, isn't it?

femsatronic wrote:
Until you have struggled to keep an old bike on the road and traveled to a bunch of ghetto-ass out of state rallies you may never understand that.

If I had a nickel for every time I've had to listen to a vintage guy go on about how I just don't understand, I'd be... well, I'd have a lot of nickels, that's for sure. Maybe I do understand and I don't really care? Maybe there's much less to understand than you all make it out to be? Maybe my interest is centered on something that is equally poorly understood by the vintage guys? You never know. I might have more life experiences than you give me credit for. I just might not lord those experiences over everyone else as if my background in [_____] trumps all else.

_____________________________________________________________

Deleted Rant

Sorry, but I had to add my two cents, But I hate that BS "they dont get it".

Manny

Calm down folks. The creation of a shifty forum is a help for those of us who would like to post and find shifty info in an efficient manner. Hell, I owned a shifty before many here were born, and rode shifties for several years prior to that. So what? Ain't your fault when you were born, and I had no influence over when I was born.

MV is great because there is a level of civility not found on another very well known forum. I like civility. If years of shifty ownership is supposed to reduce your level of civility, then I am a failed shifty owner. And I am sure there are legions of equally "failed" shifties like myself. Thanks, MV for providing a forum for us failed shifties.

Now, thanks to MV, we shifty owners have a chance to efficiently share shifty info and enjoy the silliness, and we don't have to get mired down in ugly drama to do so. We have the civility of MV as a forum for it.

As for me, I am and always have been a fan of scootering. MV is primarily about scootering, seasoned delightfully with sharing of non-scooter stuff as well. I enjoy reading the NSR as well as the stuff about automatic modern Vespas. May never own an MV, but it sure is interesting learning about them. Helps me maintain our two non-Vespa automatics.

So, let's let nature take its carefully moderated course with the new addition. It ain't you versus us. It's all of us learning and enjoying scootin'.

Al

I **really** like the new forum

It makes it much easier for people like me to learn more about classic scooters

There are a very limited number of classic scooters out there
and an even more limited number of people who understand them...
But an ever-growing number of newbies like myself who'd like to know more

So I think it's great!!

I think that it makes perfect sense, especially with the huge increase in modern/twisty scooter sales this year. I view dual scooter ownership as a wonderful luxury. My twisty is a reliable, everyday scooter. My shifty is also pretty reliable, but is for fun rides and rallies. Yes, sometimes I ride the shifty to work, and the twisty on fun rides and rallies. It works and it's wonderful.

The dirty little secret is that they get you with a modern, and then one day, by the grace of God, you get to try a shifty. Pretty soon you are thinking crazy thoughts of old Vespas and Lambrettas (even Bajajs!) It often gets so bad that maybe someday you consider growing an ironic beard, just.

You couldn't have picked a better mod BTW. He's helped me a lot, and in our local area we've even grown to appreciate his obvious OCD for vintage scoots, if not the beard.

What if Staffy finds it? Then what??

I f**in knew it had to be Eric!

Brilliant!!