Modern Vespa

around what miles do you guys change your oil? i've always done it at around 2,000 miles, and one time i was really bored so i did it at 1,500 miles.

however, a few people over at another board are claiming that if i don't do it every 500-600 miles i will really kill the life of the scooter.

i understand changing it maybe every spring or fall regardless of the miles on it since it's been sitting all winter, but EVERY 500 miles? that seems a little excessive.

it seems that i'm working on my scooters more often than this ...so i end up splitting the cases well before the milage is reached, and i put in new oil when it's reassembled.

assuming i just ride the bike and don't have to tear apart the cases, 1,500 or 2,000 miles is okay though, right?

if everything is working fine, why would you need to change oil every 500 miles?

it takes 5 minutes to do, and costs less than 5 bucks.

Why wouldn't you do it whenever you had time and spare oil? I don't know that i'd let it go more than a season or 1000 miles without changing it.

Have you ever changed the oil on a bike that's run for a LONG time? It's nothing but metal shavings in there, and i don't want that crap in my bearings.

alright, i see your point, i guess maybe i should do it more often.

what was presented to me was that if you go over 500 miles, your'e absolutley destroying the bike, which i call bullshit on.

time to go pick up some non detergent 30w i guess.

I think that depends on the quality of oil and the conditions of operation to some extent.

Oil certainly breaks down ...and rather quickly in a lot of cases. It always amazes me that i can put in this crazy clean stuff into my lambretta, and then have to drain it 2 weeks later to fix a problem ( adjusting the kickstart lever, for example ) and it comes out looking as shitty as 10 year old oil would.

I'm sure it's quite simple, but how do you do this?

Where do I fill and drain from, how much do I add?

Thanks

on a vespa, there's only 2 holes.. One is on the BOTTOM of the cases. this is obviously the drain. The other sits just behind and below the gear selector box. This is the fill hole.

You basically unplug the drain hole and drain out the case oil into your wife's finest china gravy boat.

Once it's all out, replace the plug on the bottom. Then start filling the hole at the top. This is tough, because the hole is really tiny. Up at auto zone, if you go into the oils aisle, you can often find this cap thing that will screw onto your oil bottle and give you a really tiny pointed end to it. Then you basically keep squirting oil into the fill hole until it runs back out. I keep a rag / paper towel in my other hand and keep wiping up the mess until i can clearly see the oil at a high enough level that it's running back out the hole.

Then i replace the fill plug.

Remember that there are paper washers that go between the plug and the cases on BOTH of these plugs to stop drips.


On a lambretta, it's a little different as there's a drain hole, a middle-level hole that you fill UP to, and then a fill hole on top of the cases. You basically drain the same, but when filling you leave the middle plug out and fill from the top until oil oozes out the middle one. Then you replace both and you're done. Same deal - cardboard / paper gaskets all around to stop leaking.

since you got your p used jeremy, i'd probably change it. no telling when it was last done.

Any problem using this gear oil in a pinch on a stock Li150? No mention of hypoid or cleaners to glaze up the clutch plates.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/j/JJ.pdf

Don't use that stuff in a lambretta. Lambrettas, more than vespas, NEED mineral oil over synthetic. And i think 75w/90w is probably too thin. Really try to find straight 90 weight, mineral oil, non-hypoid. It's out there.

Vespas use SAE30, non detergent, mineral oil. From what i understand, they are a little more forgiving of synthetic, but i'd STILL prefer a mineral oil.

Believe it or not, the PX 150 owner manual says every 6,000 mi or 24 months. That said, I have done it every 2,500 km/1,500 mi/6 mos for as long as I can remember, and have never been presented with scary oil when draining.

I do, however, stick religiously to GL-4, not GL-5 gear oil, which is not commonly available here. Very glad to have a Piaggio authorized shop on the island, and Theo knows that we should run GL-4.

Al

al, the owner's manual thing is what started it all. the stella manual says to do it every 2,500 miles. i guess the manuals are all over the place

I need to get around to doing this as well. Thanks for the reminder!

I would like to add :
All the stories of "never use a full synth gear oil in your gearbox or your clutch plates will slip?"


Bullshit....

I have been running Redline Heavy duty full synthetic shockproof gear oil in 3 of my bikes for well over 3 years now with excellent results & a MUCH quieter & smoother shifting gearbox.
The bikes clutches....
1. Carbon fiber plates & Worb 5 springs in a cosa basket
2. Cosa stock plates with 4 worb 5 uprated springs & 4 stock springs
3. Stock Cosa plates ,stock cosa springs



I accept no responsibility if you tank your motor so use at your own risk........but I haven't had one issue with this oil.......and NEVER fried plates or had slipping occur on cork or carbon plates.....


It is a 75/250 weight oil that behaves like a 75/90 which equals quieter operation.



http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?categoryID=6&subCategoryID=16




EDIT:
After reading Erics response...I will say that I haven't used it in my Lammy & run the Maxima in my Jet.....
Mainly because I don't ride that bike as hard as the rest.

To each his own, man. I've had a folks tell me their clutch slipped and spun until they went back to a mineral oil.

I ran some synthetic stuff from the yamaha store for a while and i didn't notice my VESPA having issues .... but after hearing word of the too-slippy-case-oil-with-synthetic stories, i went back to mineral oil just in case.

Agreed ,
But that is most likely due to differences in the oils themselves.....& the possibilities that they were running weak springs ,old plates,poorly set up clutches, to much power,etc.etc.


And possible BBS mythology...."I heard of a guy who knew a guy who told him that,etc.etc."

I can only vouch for the Redline Heavy duty shock proof oil.
I was skeptical at first until I ran it....My gearbox has shown almost no signs of wear since using this stuff.




eric you need to try a set of Sparkright Carbon plates if you do a built up motor...
You will love them....I am heading on 4 years of hard use on my T5 plates....

I have no doubt this factored in to the problem, yes. I meant to add that in my earlier post.

Anyways, i noted those clutch plates. Never heard of them before now.

i bet some people are very relieved about the new forum. and the rest of us...well, kids in a candy store.

I've put 7500 miles on the Stella without an oil change. Just never got around to it, I suppose. Still no real problems with clunkyness or the like, I suppose I should get around to changing it one day and see what it looks like.

Thanks Eric, I have that synthetic Castrol laying about for the hub oil on my GTS. I've got a Bel-Ray 85w gear oil already on order from my local shop for the Li150.

Chad

A Stella is not a Vespa, and may not be made with the same bushing/bearing materials. Perhaps might also reflect higher ambient temps in India?

Interestingly, my Haynes says every 6 months/5,000mi/8,000km

I used the 2,500 km as it was easy to benchmark and remember, and gear oil changes are easy, inexpensive and low risk of mucking something up.

Al

when in doubt, change the oil. if you're thinking you might need to do it, you should just go ahead and do it. can't remember what the odometer mileage was when you last changed it? change it. you can never "over change" gear oil. you can, however, underchange it. just be careful when putting the oil plugs back in. steel plugs + aluminum cases is a recipe for disaster if you don't know where to stop cranking. i'm not sure what the torque recommendation is. and be sure to replace the paper crush washers with new ones each oil change. just buy a bunch of them and keep them handy.

Oil breaks down....you can never go wrong with fresh oil.....helps prevent wear & tear ............... may buy you some extra time between rebuilds


I usually run 1500 to 2000 miles on small displacement bikes....& 3000 miles on my motorcycles.



I hate fucking rebuilding shit it if can be prevented.

I did no maintenance - or, the minimum to keep me off the side of the road when I got the stella as I thought it would blow within the first hundred or so miles or me driving it like an ass. Perhaps the lack of service is the only think keeping it on the road?

Hahahaha!!!
I almost cant argue with that reasoning......

Change the damn oil!

I hope you were knocking on wood as you were typing that.

I can't believe the intervals of oil changes some of you are using, keep it up you keep me in bussiness.

I stress to all my customers regardless of what their manual says to change the oil every 500 - 600 miles, it's cheap compared to a stuck rod or worse. It is true that some bikes are sensitive to what type and weight of oil you use but in general most stock bikes will do just fine on a high quality conventional, semi-synthetic or full synthetic oil.

if you have a high milage bike with the original piston, rings and rod you should run a heavy weight conventional oil. If you have a newr bike or freshly rebuilt engine a semi or full synthetic would be in order as your engines tolerances are tighter, ie; ET4 150 piston to cylinder clearance recomondation is .002, conventional oil will not adequatly lube in this tolerance and you will have premature wear if not using the proper oil.

Now, if you have done some modifications to your bike you have to get real serious about the type of oil you feed your beast and how often you change it. When new your engine was designed to run for a long time under certain parameters, very few of us operate our bikes in a way the manufacturer assumed in their design.

If anyone is interested in more info on what oil can and can't do for your engine I would be happy to start a lengthy post to that effect.

I own a repair shop for scooters and build high performance 2 and 4 cycle racing engines for go kart racing and yes I've started doing a few for scooters. Over the last 6 years I've started paying real close attention to oil in my builds and there are huge differences both in performance and engine longevity. Oh yeah, I'm also an oil dealer, I have chosen the oils I sell not by recomondations but by testing on a dyno and the race track.

If you would like to order an oil specific to your bike or have an oil or performance question pm me, I ship all over the world.

Roger
Freeborn Racing

Enlighten me. What would an original top end have to do with gearbox oil change intervals for a two stroke motor?

Ok, so which oil should I be using?

Mineral?
SAE 30?
Thom's Red Line stuff?

Nice beard Eric -

*chortles quietly*

Roger, old man, this forum is for Not-So-Modern Vespas. The two stroke type with manual transmissions. We are discussing gear oil.

The General Discussion Forum is for Automatic Modern Vespas, most of which are four stroke. That's where you might wish to offer your expertise on crankcase oil.

Appreciate your concern for our well being. If you have experience with our particular types of scooters, please feel free to join in. We are always open to learning and swapping "war stories".

Al

Let the misinformation begin....
Not to pile more crap on you Eric,
But weeding out that kind of stuff....
Possibly could keep it from becoming a free for all of "shit" & confusing info.....


Not that it matters...
That was always my biggest complaint about the BBS...

My opinion would be plain jane mineral based NON-DETERGENT SAE-30wt gearbox oil from the local hardware store. That's my vote. Thom will tell you that redline stuff. That's his.

Thanks - i spend a lot of long hours into sunning and fluffing my beard just right. I appreciate when people notice the hard work i'm putting into it.

Next stop : Anchorage Alaska May 23rd 2009 for the Beard and Mustache championships. http://www.worldbeardchampionships.com/

Which oil is best for keeping my beard supple? Mine is now well beyond ironic, and is more of an item to get me selected for random security checks in public venues. I can also hold a 16 pack of colored pencils within it.

That was stellar. I would have laughed harder, but i actually think i saw a pic of you from a recent rally on scoot.net and you've got a pretty long beard, doncha? There was some woman with a wang next to you.

i'm at 2 1/2 weeks and the itching is driving me crazy. sunday is 3 weeks, i may have to shave it off before then.

All true.

For the life of me i can't understand why you wouldn't make that your avatar picture...

Not a thing. Sorry, first post in this form and I screwed it up