Modern Vespa

I hope this isn't too broad a topic, but I am starting to enter the stripping/painting phase of my restoration project, and I was wondering if some of the experts here could offer some advice, or at least lay out the options. And I should say, my first plan is to do it all myself -- is that crazy?

1. Body work
a) tools and techniques?
b) removing the trip pieces without destroying the body -- any hints?

2. Stripping -- the options seem to be
a) chemical dip
b) bead/sand blasting
c) sanding by hand or at least by hand-drill.

3. Painting
a) What type of primer to use?
b) what type of paint? There seems to be dozens of different formulas of paints, from laquer to acrylic, basecoat/clearcoat, etc. This area has me the most confused. How do I pick?
c) how do I match the color? I want it to be "authentic", and I love the original blue color of the '61 VBB from the pictures and restorations I've seen. How do I get it?
d) What type of equipment? I have a 33-gallon air compressor, do I use HPLV paint gun, gravity feed, detail or large volume, etc?????
e) Where do I get the paint? Any good hints for the Bay Area would be especially appreciated

4. Protection afterwards. Once the paint's dry, should I wax it? Wait a month before waxing to be sure it's dry? Or just seal it in a big plastic bag and never ride it again???

Thanks for any comments on any of the above!

-Dan

Here is a great write up on it here:

http://www.scooterhelp.com/tips/paint/paint.equip.html


Oh man...I used rattle cans on mine and it came out not too bad. Fortunatley for me, the paint and body were really good on my scoot before I decided to paint it. Just be really patient and follow the steps.

Thanks for the link -- great site! And your paint job looks excellent, I'm impressed!

The scoot I'm working on is pretty gnarly. There is really not a lot of rust -- no rust-thru holes, but there are lots of dings and dents that need to be straightened. And one of the prior owners spray-can-painted it red over the original blue paint, then left it outside in a grassy field for 30 years or so, totally destroying the paint and siezing up all the moving parts. There was grass seed literally everywhere, even down the carburetor throat! And the entire top end was rusted solid -- the cylinder and crankshaft are now one piece of useless metal. But the transmission is in perfect shape, the suspension and brakes are good, and the body seems straight and sound. I'm looking at this as a good learning experience, and a "mercy mission" to ressurect this poor little VBB...

-Dan

No problem. Thanks, and it was a true pain in the ass too. It sounds like you need to dissasemble your scoot. Take real care of all the nuts and bolts and organize them on where they go and where they belong to. I used zip lock bags and labled them. I also took pics too and this can help to refer back to when placing everything back together. I would strip it down to the bare metal using either chemicals or sander just so you can see all the dents and make sure you don't have any cancer rust under the paint. I'm not sure what your skill set is, but body work can be tricky. Really do your homework on it and take your time. If you need to use bondo, use it sparingly and try not to patch up the whole scoot with bondo.

You can also build your own spray booth too:

http://www.redhaus.com/vespa/booth.html

Tips few things learned from a few weeks ago when i DIY painted the Beast..

dont strip down the bike on the open air in the british summer time... it will rain.

dont bother sanding, blasting, dipping etc

dont spend more than £20 on a tin of paint

dont buy expensive spray guns etc (a brush and a roller will do)

dont expect the same drying time when your under a tent fly sheet on a very stormy humid day in the back garden.

dont kid yourself you can get it done in the time allocated

dont finish it off in the dark

do stand back and admire your work ...

We got the paint for our mini and vespa over at Finishmaster at 1660 Monterey Rd 95112

Lowes and Home Depot have this new spray paint from Rust-o-leum that is around $6-7 and it is awesome. I have painted quite a few things with it so far and it is awesome. I got the gloss finish and the stuff doesn't even require a clear coat it is so good, the paint covers REALLY well (quality paints will do this) $1 generic rattle cans don't cover well. I was amazed at how good the stuff worked.

I've posted this picture before, but I painted this bike with prepackaged PPG automotive paint from Tower Paints in WI. They use a good quality fan nozzle on their rattle cans.

christosx and len - i'm impressed!

david i'm even more impressed that you managed to get the job done during this bogwater flood-hell of a summer we had

Your Sprint looks sweet.
Nice job.




One thing with rattle cans though?
Gas will eat that shit right off your bike.

So take that into account when setting out to do your bike.

I put 3 years on a set of rattle can cowls before finally spilling gas on them.


I followed this article and my cowls looked excellent...(Until I spilled fuel on them )
I wont be doing another rattle can but it did the job until I was ready for a respray.....

You can get excellent results with prep & patience....


If you follow the article I listed and BE PATIENT...you will freak yourself out at how nice & deep you can get a rattle can job to look.

Lots of wetsanding & thin coats....
It was alot of fun..




http://diybum.com/paintlikeapro.htm


This was the same day my dipshit clubmate scratched my cowl......but you get the idea....

I repainted my T5 with Rustoleum. Follow the advice and links others posted here. It can be done. Remember, it's only paint. You can sand it off and respray if it goes bad.

Hot damn.....that looks great

[quote="christos x"]


This really makes we want to go out and buy a P200 or Rally.

It's not really the method that's the problem, it's the product. You can buy high quality PPG automotive paint in a rattle can, or you can buy something like Rustoleum or Krylon. They are completely different products.

Paint being dispersed from from a compressor isn't magic. Once the paint leaves the gun, it's just paint flying through the air onto the object being painted. The same is true of a rattle can, it's just the propellant that's different. The propellant does nothing to the quality of the paint.

If you are going to use a rattle can, get custom packaged automotive paint and you won't have problems due to gas spillage or anything else. I've had good results this way.

I also use a DuPont clear coat, and it's a great product. Here are a couple of other pictures using PPG automotive paint with DuPont clear:

Any advice for painting plastic? I want to spray my ugly gray spare cover but haven't ever painted plastic before. Is it the same general idea of clean, sand, prime, paint, etc?

Sarah,

Before you paint plastic you want to use a bonding agent, to help the paint stick better. You can get it at NAPA auto parts, or any auto parts store. If it's new plastic, use something to flash the plastic first, then the bonding agent.

Len

Really nice work Len...I wish I could have consulted you before I painted my scoot!

Actually I knew that....
But didn't think the average joe was going to go get the actual automotive paint in cans. Which is awesome if you do not have access to a spray g u n & compressor
I was referring to Krylon,etc......
(The PPG,Dupont probably too expensive for the average cheapskate nickledick scooterist.)

Which is ass backwards...because doing it right the first time?....Is always best.


also my dad was a paint & body man for 45 years.



I am in your boat though & think it is a great way to apply high quality paint....But I would disagree that it is exactly like applying it with a g u n.
Consistent pressure, less cleaning of tips between coats, etc.


Not trying to start a fight...but just pointing out the obvious.



That being said...Had I used the Automotive paint in the rattle can?
I probably wouldnt have just stripped my bike of some parts & sent them out for respray.




Len, your bikes look great by the way...I had remembered seeing your P on CL or the BBS awhile back.
And that smally looks tits......

So how expensive is this PPG,Dupont stuff? $200 to coat a full scooter? Any price difference between getting the rattlers vs. can for a compressor/gun?

It's around $12 per can, and you probably need about 6 cans to do a P series bike, and maybe 3 cans of clear.

Here in CA, the reason I like the cans is that you don't have to buy more paint than you really need, you don't have to mix it with a thinner (it's already mixed) and you don't have to clean out a spraygun and the hose. Plus, you don't have to deal with solvents as much, and disposing of that stuff in CA now is really a pain if you do it the environmentally friendly way.

I'm getting ready to paint a 1970 Sprint project the Toyota FJ Cruiser Yellow, and I can hardly wait. Still have some other things to finish first.

Thom, I agree that cheap nozzles are bad news for a paint job. Tower Paints generally uses good nozzles with a good fan pattern, and it makes a difference.

Of course, just like a spraygun application, the care taken in the prep stage and color sanding are still key. And lots of work!

So judging from the post above, will gas "eat the shit" out of this PPG rattle can paint? Or does that only happen if you use non-PPG paint/dupont clear?

So am i understanding this correctly - if you want best quality, paint gun/compressor is still the best way to go. High quality rattle cans are just more convenient for the reasons you mentioned above.

No, gas won't eat the PPG paint from a rattle can. It's when you buy standard hardware store spray paint that you get a paint job that won't last long.

Ah, ic. Thanks Len! I'm planning my own paint session this winter...this is all very helpful stuff.

Do you have to care for this type of paint job differently? No waxing? Or special wax? etc?

Once I finish color sanding, I use a 3M polishing compound which really brings out the shine, and then I wax it. After that, just take care of it the same as you would any other bike.

Thanks Len. Do you have an estimate of how long it takes to color sand down a full bike? Just curious if this will take hours, days, etc.

Thanks Len! I haven't heard the term "flash" the plastic before, what exactly does that mean? The plastic is all cruddy right now so I wouldn't classify it as new, but it also isn't 30 years old.

You actually just use the adhesion promoter, and let it "flash." Here's a better explanation from bodyshopbusiness.com:

Using Plastic Adhesion Promoters
One area absolutely everyone agreed on was the proper use of plastic adhesion promoters. They're the perfect thing over bare, sanded plastic, and they're the absolute wrong thing when applied over primer.

While the exact formula for an adhesion promoter varies from brand to brand, all versions contain a strong solvent that will open the pores of the plastic to enable the new coating to adhere to the raw plastic. Adhesion promoters also have a time window; they must flash off for a specific period to gain maximum inter-coat adhesion, but they must be painted over within a certain time, too. If left past the window of time, the plastic adhesion promoter doesn't do the job it was supposed to.

Each manufacturer has specific directions about how many coats to apply to bare plastic and how long to wait before proceeding. Follow the directions for your brand exactly.

However, no plastic adhesion promoter is designed to be sandwiched between a primed or sealed substrate and the next coating. The rich solvents in the adhesion promoter will cause a loss of adhesion when used over primed or painted parts. In fact, one bumper cover manufacturer suggested that the most common problem they see is misused adhesion promoter. It's for bare plastic, not painted plastic. In some repairs, this may mean masking the surrounding painted area or immediately wiping off the excess adhesion promoter to prevent later delamination.

These "magic" adhesion promoters are bad news if they're applied over anything but clean, sanded, bare plastic.

This sounds really promising -- but can you get the custom PPG colors in a spray can? I really want to match the original 1961 VBB blue color as closely as I can...

Thanks everyone for the info and opinions, by the way -- this is great!

-Dan

I just thought to add....


On aluminum pieces like a Sprint headset,etc.
There is an etching primer needed for the paint to stick.



I have some chipping on my headset due to improper primer being used..(From a reputable paint shop no less.)

The Rustoleum I used on My T5 has stood up to fuel spills. I've also used the PPG paint in spray cans that Len mentioned. I had the color of my PX200 color matched and put into cans. It's really much nicer paint to work with. It's not as thick and flows smoothly.

I opted for the rustoleum for the T5 because I couldn't afford the $20 per can and the red I found is a spot on match to the T5's original color.

For anybody attempting a paint job with cans I highly reccomend picking up one of these at a hardware store.

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dchernikoff,

Yup, you can get any paint matched in the PPG colors. Just google Tower Paint in Wisconsin, or I'm sure you could find somewhere closer.

Sorry, isnt Vespa!
On building my fully destroyed Piaggio Liberty i wanted a some crazy look. I used 75% of new factory unpainted fairings, sanded with Scotch-Brite (not use a sandpaper on plastic - surface going furry), primered with plastic-primer (for car bumpers), painted with Dupli-Color Granitestyle effectpaint and covered paint with 2-component dupont car clearcoat.







P.S. Sorry about my horrible english!

I think you were successful.

Looks like a pickup truck bedliner.

I thought about spraying mine with bedliner. I've seen pictures of that somewhere...

Ultimately, I used lacquer thinner to strip off all the aftermarket junk paint. Then, I sprayed it with rattlecan Duplicolor Truck/SUV paint. It has a fan spray for easy even coverage. I rushed the job on the cheap, and it still came out pretty nice.

I may need your tagging skills when the time comes to repaint.

Oh my.. coolest paint job ever

Whats the knobby thing sticking out of the left grip.. security device ?

The homemade spray booth is a good thing to have (much better than nothing), but getting a good respirator mask is critical. Get something like this for painting and use it when doing bondo too.



I only wish I had learned about these things in school back when we made design models out of toxic foams, smoothed the imperfections with Bondo and then painted them.

No doubt about the respirator mask. It was the best 10 bucks I've ever spent at Home Depot. Wear that thing the whole time and don't take it off. Read the directions and make sure you have that thing on properly.

Sorry I'm confused, are you folks suggesting polishing/using rubbing compound PRIOR to the application of the clearcoat? Or just paint and clearcoat, THEN polish?

Thanks!