Modern Vespa

Nor me - but dealing with risk is frankly what gives life its 'kick'. Otherwise you might as well have a lobotomy and live in a jar on some University shelf...

The only numbers I used were the ages of my daughter.
However, I did exaggerate the danger of flying. My apologies. My point was to counter the impression you gave in your post that choosing to ride a scooter is irresponsible by its very nature. Although there are dangers inherent in two wheeled vehicle riding, they can be mitigated through training, gear and attention. Of course we think about the chances of having a serious injury. That is part of what makes us better, safer riders.

I think the big picture is considered quite a bit when it comes to scooters and family concerns. There is a huge factor of acceptable risk. If the risk was that high, if it was in fact that dangerous where you really needed to worry about making it home in one piece just because you were on a scooter or motorcycle, I am sure people would have different answers. Its not like playing Death Race 2000. Nobody gets 50 points for taking someone on a Vespa out.

Thinking about your loved ones is why people wear safety gear. Its why when you are out riding you pay attention to your surroundings, you ride safely and aware of what is going on around you and you take precautions so you are as safe as you can be. Riding isn't an either/or thing when it comes to family responsibilities. And if I was in a relationship where my signifigant other said "the scooter is too unsafe, either it goes or i go" I would reevaluate that relationship, because that scooter is as much a part of me and my personality as anything else that that person would have been attracted to.

Ok I gave you a somewhat flippant answer,

So lets try a more real one.

I've watched both my parents die, my father passed in '93 and my mother passed in 2006.

My father died of Pancreatic cancer and my mother fell and broke her hip in April and died in June.

After my father's funeral and everyone had left my mother sat my brother and sister and myself down and told us that if there was something we wanted to do in life that that we should, don't wait do say well maybe I'll.

Just do it.

Because you really don't know how long you have.

I'm with Boulty

[quote=" Boulty"]
To answer your last question first - until your toes curl up and they nail the lid on the box! [/quote]


[quote="Wangta01"]
I understand you all love riding. But there are other things in life BESIDES scootering. We all take on risks whenever we ride - but thinking about the big picture is something I think we all need to do - not for ourselves, but for your loved ones. [/quote]

Well we all take risk in the things we do in everyday life.

Hell taking a shower can be a risk, but I'm not going to let that stop me from being clean.

The same thing goes for riding on two wheels.

As for giving it for my family, first while they know the dangers, they also know how much it means to me.

So no they won't ask .

As for the me, me, me,

Well I have enough insurance to know that the house will be paid for and my niece will go to college.

And other then loving them while I'm still here I really don't think I could do any more.

I do not accept the car/scooter "statistics" quoted here. In a scooter/motorcycle accident, normally only one person is injured - the rider. In a car accident there are usually other passengers involved, and probably another vehicle. So the casualties per accident is a good deal higher. Need better figures to draw any conclusions.

Then there are opinions of the danger of scooter accidents. I have had about 3 collisions with cars, and two slides in gravel. I got a gravel rash in one slide, and a bruise on my leg in one on the collisions. No broken bones. And I wear no protective gear apart from gloves and a helmet. Fequently just shorts, shirt, sandals and sunglasses in summer.

I have now reached the ripe old age of 70, and have not had an accdent for 22 years. I have NEVER had an accident while driving a car. But I do feel that my riding/driving is a little less safe now. I find that when I glance down at the speedo, or into the rear-view mirrors, it takes me a moment to re-orient myself to what is in front, almost like a micro-sleep. I feel I ride best if I ignore the speedometer and just base my riding on what I can see around me - road surface, people, other vehicles, visibility, etc. But the cops might not agree with that!

I certainly hope I will be scootering when I am 80. If I can manage 90 or over, that will be wonderful!

Mike

Risk is good for the soul. It makes you focus intently on the here and now.

Risk could be bad for the family. They really don't want to lose you.

It's is a balance that I ponder from time to time. I'm 53 and my kids are in college or beyond. I rode in my teens and 20's (dirt bikes) but quit before I had kids. Started riding again last year. I'm still not sure it's the right thing to do. I wear protective clothing and full face helmet. I try to anticipate every potential hazard. I get a thrill out of almost every ride.

Wangta', I'm going to say something here and you are not going to like it. But rest assured this is something people here seem to be having extreme difficulty getting through to you.

Eight years ago I got cancer. I got testicular cancer after over eighteen years of being a smoker. No test, no oncologist or radiologist could make a connection to my smoking. Zero evidence of it in my lungs or associated organs.

So I ended up getting a cancer which had nothing to do with my lifestyle despite the fact my lifestyle should have been THE reason for the cancer.

In fact, one of the three chemos in the daily cocktail I had dripped into me for four hours a day was supposed to have a high likelihood of destroying my lungs. But the tests they did on my lungs cleared me to take the chemo. Why? Maybe the odd fact I'm a bicyclist/wind instrument player balanced some of that nasty smoking out. But that's not the point.

The point is you think you can protect yourself from harm by leading one kind of life and then it hits you from another side. My entire family thought the cancer was a result of riding, not my smoking (none of them smoke either-where's That correlation???) because Lance Armstrong is kinda a big deal to many Wisconsinite bicyclists. Waterloo WI is where Trek bikes are made. Lance had a similar cancer to mine.

You know what the most important thing in life is? Not to be afraid to live it. The example you set is one of greater value to those who know and love you than than to excuse yourself from doing what you love knowing all the potential consequences. Because life is not an ordered puzzle with all the solutions if you just knew how to work toward them. Its random and its vague.

You know, its practically offensive to ask people who know how to live, how to do more than just breathe, why they haven't given up living yet.

During that time when I faced cancer, the question always hung over me. How much time was truly left? Was my body going to be strong enough? Did I have the mental fortitude not to just give up? I hurt from head to toe. Black spots appeared on my skin. My gums bled and all my teeth were loose. No appetite and no discernable sleep pattern. Three cycles in I didn't care anymore and it broke my wife's heart. That's really what brought me back; the damn fighter in me saw me giving up in the reflections in her eyes.

But you know, after a time past the chemo I made a conscious decision. I learned that nothing is guaranteed. Not even expected consequences whether positively or negatively reinforcing. I should have died eight years ago. Since then I've been given fraternal twins and a life better than I could have imagined. Better than I deserve.

What value would I give my own existance if I were to sacrifice with regrets, my life to becoming a footstool someone else would be better off learning not to use anyway?

Harv

Thanks for sharing this. I'm sure none of us here would dare question the power of your experience, and yes, it does give some color as to why you approach life the way you do (now and before).

I agree with you on many aspects - but there is a key thing that jumps out at me. Yes, you can live your life one way, and have something from left field hit you randomly. There are risks in life you CAN control, and those you CANNOT. Cancer, as you experienced, is something that you CANNOT control (smoking, etc - aside). Riding a motorcycle, skydiving - these are risks you CHOOSE to participate and take on. Yes, there are things that happen in life, risks around every corner. But riding is perhaps ONE thing that you could opt out of, if you really needed to.

Question - would you all stop riding if the doctor told you it was bad for your heart and there was a high probability of suffering a heart attack? I think many here would give up their scoot rather risk it. Why would you stop then? To family members, the risk might "appear" to be the same. everytime you get on that scooter, regardless of how safe you are, there are random factors out there that could kill you (Drunk drivers!).

Your story brings up a good point that might help people understand my point - my parents are getting to the age where serious health problems are starting to arise. My mother was diagnosed with a form of skin cancer last year, and has been undergoing treatment for 9 months. My father was diagnosed with Atlzheimers last year, one of the slowest, most painful diseases on the planet. Who is paying for these treatments? Me. Who will have to pay for my parents should they need to go to a nursing home? Me. Who will take care of them financially in a couple years? Me. What happens if I get slammed by an idiot DWI cager and get killed? The outcome would be horrendous, not only for me, but for the ones I love. Given that, riding a relatively dangerous motorcycle JUST because I enjoy it could appear as a bit irresponsible, no?

I think about this stuff whenever I ride - hell, even when I go to work. It reminds me of my obligation and role in my family - and that my decisions should not jeapardize my family. It motivates me when I'm at work at 11 pm, pushing 15 hour days - the big picture keeps me focused and keeps things in perspective.

I guess I'm a bit surprised that others don't think a bit about their importance/role/responsabilities in life when they ride. Yes yes, you all can say - "if you're that scared - then don't ride". Thanks - I think I can figure that much out. More, i was wondering if others atleast thought about this or approached riding, or perhaps life, in this way....perhaps I am of the minority.

You talk about working 15 hour days. I know what that is like. Stress galore. What if riding a scooter every day relieves some of that harmful stress and I'm healthier for it? An extra 10 years before the ticker quits because I have some stress relief? Also, commuting in a car is so chock full of stress. Especially when I'm late and stuck in traffic. Arggggg! With a scooter I'm never late since I get to cut to the front of the line with a nice relaxed smile on my face.

Yeah, I hear that. I did investment banking for 3 years. Psycho work hours, but yes, the scooter ride did wake me up!

I think you should put your helmet on, put on an armour suit, wrap yourself with a bed mattress before you ever go outside again

Haha. I got everything but the bed mattress. I put a football helmet on over my SHOEI too

Just in case you fall down.

By the way I'm 45 new to Vespa's, learning alot of info from Modern Vespa and it's members, getting lectures from just about everyone I know, and most importantly having fun which hasn't happened to me in a long time.

I'm 44 with two elementary age kids and won't lie that I haven't contemplated the risk/reward aspect of riding a scooter every day. So I get where you are coming from on that. Except for the part about caring about work after you are dead and buried! To hell with them!

Wangta01, I totally understand and respect where you are coming from. The fact that you are evaluating your level of acceptable risk and how your choices might affect those most dependent upon you is a sign of maturity, not temerity.

We've all seen the posts on this forum and read the newspaper articles in which a scooterist/motorcyclist was killed or seriously injured in an accident. Hit by a deer, a drunk driver, a tractor trailer veering out of control, an inattentive soccer mom on a cell phone, or taken out by an unforeseen patch of gravel on the side of the road. No matter how carefully we ride, no matter how much gear we wear - the risks are there.

My husband and I began riding after our children were grown, and I honestly don't know that we would be scooting if our kids were still dependent on us. Sure you can buy a good insurance policy, but money cannot replace a parent.

Your determination of what is acceptable risk at this time in your life may need to take into account how others would be affected by the possible consequences of your choices. It's not something that anyone else can determine for you.

Whatever you decide - you deserve respect for your willingness to even consider giving up something you love out of a sense of responsibility for and commitment to those dependent on you.

I was going to say after your other post exclaiming about "but what about OTHER people!" that I thought you were just so full of BS! But after reading this last post I'm glad I didn't. I can understand your concerns, and they ertainly appear to me to be valid ones also...

But what you don't seem to understand tho is that this is YOUR decision to make, and your original post asking: "should I keep riding or should I not" was an abdication of your own responsibilities over onto others.
AFAIC people generally ask others about these decisons after they've already made their minds up about them, simply to blame someone else for they're having had to make them..

And AFA what others feel and do about their lives, you gotta remember that everyone's different. If you want others to feel what it's like being in your shoes, you should at least show others that you can at least partially understand what it's like being in theirs..

Anyway I'm starting to believe that you want to carry out this fruitless "but what if " discussion forever, and I'm now quitting it! Good luck to you, and feel right and blessed with whatever YOU decide; I have no doubts that it will absolutely be the right decision for you! 8)

You completely missed the essence of my post. You cannot be your best until you are who you really are. Your parents' need of you would be taken care of by someone else were you not willing to take up that slack. That's the truth. Maybe it wouldn't be completely to your liking or approval but it would happen.

I get the impression you get most of your own justification (for your own life) out of the feeling of being needed by others. Forget it. Your first responsibility is to you.

Are you going to lay on your death bed and hope that all you've done for others is going to be enough to assuage the needs and wants you had for your own life, which you let slip away to meet their needs?

I really don't think you're getting it. I didn't want this to come out harshly but it appears there's no other way:

The world including your and my family will go on whether we're there or not. On top of that, our presence does not assure they'll be better off than without us. People like to think their sacrifices will be remembered. To some degree, yes. But the heros of this life are the people who ived their lives with very little regret. Yes, even the heros of your and my children.

The greatest impact you can make upon them is not to be their "savior" (that's a whole 'nother internal complex), it is to teach them that life itself is the most intricate and misunderstood total experience anyone could ever imagine it to be. There are no guarantees Wangta'. And despite all the precautions there will always be more that you and I could have done.

I suggest this solution: Take that scooter of yours for a long ride. No friends riding beside, just you. No I-Pod, just your own thoughts. If you come back alive from that ride make your decision on whther you are going to keep riding or not [then] and for godsakes stop second guessing yourself.

There's your answer. Now be an adult and make your decision.

Harv

[/i]

This assumes that I don't know who I am now? Trust me Harv - I've gone through a whole maturation/self reflection/identity period - I am sure of who I am, and more importantly, how I want to be remembered as a person. When I think about how I want to be remembered, I think about my obituary and how I want it to read. Selfless? Family guy? Helpful to others? To each their own. But the statement - "your first responsability is to you" is...selfish at best. I don't have anything in my life right now that I wouldn't give up for family - that includes scooters (I can't believe I even have to say that). Are you sure that someone else would take care of my parents if I didn't take on the job? How do you know this with certainty??? Seems like passing the buck-on to someone else. If I can help others in a meaningful way, and if that requires me to give up some of my, honestly, non-critical "needs", then by all means I will. I will not regret any decisions of the sort - now, or 50 years from now. I love scooting but I would never cry/long/regret my decision if I ever gave it up. I understand what you're trying to say, but I can't help but read them and be shocked at the me-first mentality. That helps no one but you - you could be so much more impactful in this world but touching the lives of others. I'm not even sure how to answer this. To be polite, I totally disagree with you and this reeks of the me-first approach, and simply turning a cold-shoulder to what could be an opportunity to be an impactful human being. How do you know OUR families would go on without us? You seem to be a risk taker, because I would never want to risk my families future like that - especially given our situation. Your definition of hero is extremely strange - people who live thier lives with little regret? Are these people who just do whatever the heck they want and only think of themselves? How are they heroes? Aren't "heroes" in mainstream media/comics/imaginations people who sacrifice something (themselves at times) to help OTHER people? Think fireman, policeman (Sept 911), soldiers, medal recipients, heck - even batman and superman. Teaching my parents about life...haha. C'mon, that sounds even more like making excuses for only looking out for numero uno (IE: Yourself). "Mom/Dad - this happens, i don't understand it, but I'm gonna quit my job, travel to europe because I need to find myself - but don't worry, you'll be fine, even if i stayed here to help, its not like I could fix everything anyway." Extreme example, I know. I'm risk averse as you can tell, especially when it comes to family , so you can see why I think this approach is a bit lazy. Ah, the ever pleasant parting shot. I am thinking like an "adult" on this issue...there is more to life than just yourself. And YES, I DO GET IT - I just don't agree with your logic/rationale/argument. Thanks for your comments though, they were entertaining if nothing else. Lets just agree-to-disagree on this - we obviously don't see eye to eye, which is fine! Thanks everyone for your input, it was helpful hearing others views.

And yet you still ride...

I'd written a long and drawn out response to everything you wrote and you know something?

It ain't worth it. You're going to read things into what I wrote that aren't what I intended you to take from my replies.

I think you're a good guy but no explaining on my part is going to help you. Not in your own qwest, not in understanding what I'm trying hard to get across to you.

Ok. I'll try one last time.

Yes, I think of those things all the time. My wife and kids. The things which could happen. Where it would leave them were something dreadful to happen. Financially we're prepared. Emotionally, naturally not. Who ever could be. What a terrible way to live, thinking of preparing emotionally for something of the worst order and still, that thing being no guarantee of ever happening. Its a level of risk that I think my mother in law explained best. "At first I always worried about you. Then I saw how you ride. Now I still think about it, but I know you and I know I can't live worrying about it all the time."

Revisiting if riding is still worth it is something I think we all do from time to time. Then most of us hone up on our skills. Others give up riding.

When those thoughts begin to take away from the fun of riding, I do think its time for that person to hang it up. Sometimes the indecision leading up to that point is settled when the spouse takes ownership of the key.

Talk to your wife and see what she has to say about it. (shrug)

That nonBastard bastard, Harv

Wangta01-

You are seriously contemplating life, the universe and everything, and where you fit into that picture. Nothing wrong with that. What I would suggest you consider is that you are wrestling with some very personal concerns. Concerns about yourself, your life, you universe and your everything.

Each of us has to address our self, our life, our universe and our everything. Again, a very personal issue, and rooted in values. Values are very interesting, very complex and very personal. They are intimately entwined with who we think we are, and are most often not influenced by "rational" opposing views.

Thus, asking the question you have asked is guaranteed to result in a wide range of contrary opinions. There is no "universal truth" available in answer to your question. If there is any criticism I would make concerning your OP it would be the folly in thinking there might just be such a "universal truth".

Enjoy your life, and continue to develop and clarify your values.

Live long and prosper.

Al

True dat aviator. Is there such a thing as a mid-20s crisis?

yes, if you wish to have one. And, if you are having it now, and get over it, think of all the years ahead where you don't have to worry about having your "crisis".

Al

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but plenty of "mature adults" ride regularly.

I think the issue here is the stigma attached to scooters in general. In many parts of the US, the only reason anyone rides a scooter is when they can't get a driver license. That pretty much means kids and DUIs.

If we were talking about Harleys, I'm sure you would have no problem picturing an executive riding to work.

The employees of Southweat Airlines gave then CEO Herb Kelleher a Harley for his birthday a few years back. And he rode it regularly.

Al

Side note: I've been in Herb's office. He seemed like a nice guy.

Ardy met him on several occasions at industry functions. She thinks he hung the moon. Bob Crandall, CEO of American for many years also held him in high regard, both as an airline CEO and visionary and as a person.

Al

I'm 44 and ride my scooter 40-50% of the time (probably would more, but if I ride too much, my back KILLS me). When I feel that I am uncomfortable (for whatever reason) on the scooter, that's when I'll stop. Either from too much physical discomfort (back) or feeling that my reaction time, etc is not good enough. There is a point where I think people need to be honest with themselves about what they are capable of. I remember a while back a 90ish man in CA ran into a market in his car and killed several people. A friend's father died while trying to drive himself to the hospital during a heart attack. I don't want to be one of those on a scooter or in a car.

I know there is a risk attached to two wheel riding.

So what else is new?

I ride a scooter.
My daughter is in college right now training to work with lions and tigers. It's what she's always wanted to do. Now that's something for me to worry about. Scooter riding pales in comparison.
Should I tell her to play it safe and give up her dreams? You tell that to a girl who wants to work with lions and tigers.

I don't rationalize the risk. I accept it and deal with it. I am careful, I educate myself, and I take all reasonable steps to keep safe while riding and gear up to protect myself if something happens.

My daughter is taking the same approach.

Wangta, you might be surprised to see how many folks on these forums have as much responsibility or more than you have. And I would say there are plenty of us who have thought through the risks as you've been doing. It's in fact, old news to anyone like me. And scooting isn't the only thing to consider here. I'm sure there're quite a few of us who express their sense of adventure in plenty of other ways...snowboarding, rock climbing, alpine climbing, scuba diving, hang gliding, surfing, downhill mtn biking, etc. etc. Plenty of ways to bite the dust. In fact, I'm bettin' that you fall into quite a few of those yourself. Are you going to stop all of them? Just the ones that exceed some gray line in your head? Why exactly are you attempting to draw the line at the scooter (besides the fact that you get to debate with us)?

The bottom line, Wangta, is that there are plenty of people who would disagree with your current line of reasoning--that the scooter life is so risky that we should all give it up after inheriting or committing to the big commitments in our lives (or skiing...or mtn biking...etc). It might rub you towards denial when people throw the phrase "if it scares you, don't ride" at you. But it's true. It's the bottom line. It might not show any depth of reasoning, but it *is* the bottom line.

But...about that reasoning... Your line of reasoning implies that if you do have a parent or loved one to take care of, and you still scoot that 1) you haven't thought about it, or 2) you've thought about it and are 2a) selfish and uncaring, 2b) irresponsible, 2c) dumb or irrational, or something along those lines. It implies that someone who decides that scooting has a place in his/her life that he/she is actually unfit for the duties of marriage, amongst other big commitments, because one day it's *possible* that someone clocks you so hard that you become a vegetable. One day, *you* could be the one that needs to drink out of a tube for the rest of your life (not that that couldn't happen *anyways*). A while back I had at one point decided that I was unfit for marriage, specifically because of this line of reasoning. Ya...too many risks...I liked to play too close to the edge of the envelope. Making commitments like that...irresponsible.

Somebody very close to me gave me some good advice. Grow a pair. I mean...he actually said a bit more than that. But it really did boil down to exactly that. Grow a pair. You're not going to have the answer to every risk that comes your way. Your commitments *will* always, outweigh the risks you *know* you can control. So, what are you going to do? At some point, you have to be the one that's comfortable in your own skin. In fact, what's an unavoidable truth is that one of these days, we are bound to be back in a diaper, having someone we love spoon feeding us, grateful for their commitment to caring for us. At least...we hope so. Either that, or we die before they get the chance to do so. Is this such an unacceptable fate that you will choose to not have any loved ones?

You know who else that implies is unfit for marriage? Soldiers that have volunteered for service, policemen, volunteer firefighters, Coal miners. Unfit for any long term commitments--all of them, unfit because of something they choose to do. Why couldn't any of them just consign themselves to selling TV's? It's safe. Do you *get* the extremity of this line of reasoning?

My take is that you better embrace the humanity that defines you, before you start holding it against yourself or worse, someone you love. You are not going to be strong forever. You are not going to be the caregiver forever. And if someone expects you to, they haven't realized the unbearable lightness of being, so to say. It's *you*, at the end of the day that needs to define what your life is about. Is it *all* serious? Is absolutely *none* of it about freedom of spirit? And exactly where does one draw the line? This is the cause of more mid-life crises than any other. Quadruple your insurance policy if it puts your mind at rest. And in the end, you either man up and grow a pair, or you don't. In other words...if it scares you...don't ride.

"Mom/Dad - this happens, i don't understand it, but I'm gonna quit my job, travel to europe because I need to find myself
- but don't worry, you'll be fine, even if i stayed here to help, its not like I could fix everything anyway." Extreme example..."

Well, I guess I'm not quitting this thread yet after all...
Because I really don't see your 'extreme' example above as being negative at all.
Just a sign of a mature person cutting some apron strings.
-Growing up... 8)

Sooner or later, one has to live one's own life, whatever that may be.
In your case it just may be staying close to the parental nest right now,
and giving up some other things in your life as not as important..
So, as has already been said here much before, go and do so!
Why are you so needful of the approval of all of us here?
(And I do think it would also be nice if you could accomplish this "giving it up for others" thing
without being so angry and so self-righteous about it too, y'know?)

I think all of your arguing here is because you want EVERYONE to understand and approve of what you're doing.
Not possible. Not at all.
And expecting anyone else to also live their life the way you see it
as being the "right way", is IMO more than a bit arrogant...

Personally, I may be wrong in this, but I'm getting from your communications that you like being a martyr,
and you want a lot of people here to admire you for being that way.
Again, not possible. Some will, many others will not.
So why keep arguing about it? You will never get complete and absolute acceptance (or justification?)
for all your actions in life anywhere, and IMO to continue needing this is to prevent oneself from becoming a mature adult!

So stop debating everyone and just go and do what you feel you need to do.
I'm sure you will be able to find some people who will agree with your actions and admire you for taking them.
Just not everyone.
And not me...

Actually I do admire your wanting to take care of elderly parents in need. What I do not admire is your absolute insistance on universal approval here for your feeling that you need to give up scooter riding to do so! (This is, as you well know, a scooter riding enthusiasts' forum!??)

well put!

Top Ten reasons that prove you are too old to ride:

10. You can't get all your loose neck skin tucked into your FF helmet.

9. Your Depends makes you taller in the saddle and your feet won't reach the ground.

8. The immobilizer signal screws with your pacemaker.

7. Your Viagra causes you to sit on yourself and it hurts.

6. The big grin on your face allows your dentures to fall out.

5. The wind noise in your hearing aids sounds like a 747 at 50 feet.

4. Twisting the throttle makes you "go."

3. The non-canceling turn signals don't bother you.

2. Your catheter is plumbed into the evap system.

And now, the number one reason you should give up scootering...




1. You went to the bathroom carrying your blue key and brown key and when you came out, they were both brown.

Those are great!

You've mistaken the penny horse at the mall for your scooter

You wonder why all the ads in Scoot are geared to the 'young'ns'

You've been refused for new tatoos because no one can figure out how to pin down loose skin without bruising

You ordered your new trifocals so that you could read your speedometer not the mail

Your farts are louder than your four stroke exhaust note. And longer

You don't care what the speed limit is, the speed you're going is SAFE

(But these are not as good as yours)

Harv

I think there's a big difference between riding a scooter and riding a motorcycle. I had always been a motorcycle guy...it wasn't my sole means of transportation but I would ride it weather permitting whenever I could. Once I had kids, however, I started to reflect on the safety issues that are pretty obvious to all and decided that my responsibility to my family outweighed the thrill of riding my bike. Any responsibility that I might have owed my employees never factored into it. I'm now 64 and I recently bought a Vespa. I find the whole experience of riding a scooter to be totally different then that of riding a motorcycle and suspect that had I had a scooter when my kids were younger I wouldn't have felt at risk enough to have stopped riding. The nature of the scooter ergonomics sort of preclude riding it aggressively and thus you wind up riding it more sedately and thus more safely...lane splitting...trying to stay out in front of traffic, etc. are things of the past. Of course, accidents happen, but they are no more likely on a scooter riden alertly then they are in a car driven casually.

[/quote]

Wow guys. Little surprised by how open and shut this seems to be. Are you guys telling me you don't think about this at all? Honestly, I'm a little surprised by people's responses here. I don't mean to offend anyone, but most comments seem to contain "me, me, me". Look, I understand EVERYONE here LOVES riding and has a serious passion for it.

But this is not about questioning your passion, reasons for riding, etc. Obviously we all know these reasons. Its about THINKING about trading something you love, for the betterment of OTHER PEOPLE! Other people!!!!! We're talking about sacrifice - for your family, to put it as simply as I can. Or atleast thinking about it.

Basically people's answer here seems to be "its not that dangerous. I could die walking down the street. I would never give up riding, even for family.". When you put it like that, seems a little one dimensional eh?

I understand you all love riding. But there are other things in life BESIDES scootering. We all take on risks whenever we ride - but thinking about the big picture is something I think we all need to do - not for ourselves, but for your loved ones.[/quote]

Ok, to be fair I gave up riding the moment I became pregnant with my son. I began again once my kids were in their 20's and are now taking responsibility for themselves. Now my son, in his mid 20's he does not know how to shift a motorcycle and knows nothing about riding. My daughter is now becoming interested in riding.

Did we do them a favor by avoiding riding all that time?

We considered the saftety issue and made our decision. That is the bottom line, it is not all ME-ism, it is the decision you make that is correct for a certian time in your life. And it sounds like for your life, perhaps the decision is to stop riding for now.

Wow guys. Little surprised by how open and shut this seems to be. Are you guys telling me you don't think about this at all? Honestly, I'm a little surprised by people's responses here. I don't mean to offend anyone, but most comments seem to contain "me, me, me". Look, I understand EVERYONE here LOVES riding and has a serious passion for it.

But this is not about questioning your passion, reasons for riding, etc. Obviously we all know these reasons. Its about THINKING about trading something you love, for the betterment of OTHER PEOPLE! Other people!!!!! We're talking about sacrifice - for your family, to put it as simply as I can. Or atleast thinking about it.

Basically people's answer here seems to be "its not that dangerous. I could die walking down the street. I would never give up riding, even for family.". When you put it like that, seems a little one dimensional eh?

I understand you all love riding. But there are other things in life BESIDES scootering. We all take on risks whenever we ride - but thinking about the big picture is something I think we all need to do - not for ourselves, but for your loved ones.[/quote]

Ok, to be fair I gave up riding the moment I became pregnant with my son. I began again once my kids were in their 20's and are now taking responsibility for themselves. Now my son, in his mid 20's he does not know how to shift a motorcycle and knows nothing about riding. My daughter is now becoming interested in riding.

Did we do them a favor by avoiding riding all that time?

We considered the saftety issue and made our decision. That is the bottom line, it is not all ME-ism, it is the decision you make that is correct for a certian time in your life. And it sounds like for your life, perhaps the decision is to stop riding for now.[/quote]

I bet your family didn't ask you to give up riding. I'll bet you made that decision from your own heart. I would also guess that they might've suggested some things for you to think about, but you already had those things in mind. In a sense you really did make that decision for your own piece of mind. It was the best decision for you and I would imagine, no real sacrifice for you to make. I think the OP here is putting self sacrifice on a small pedistal.

I sense people are thinking I'm self centered. That would be very far from the truth. I gave up middle management to be a stay at home dad to my twins. I don't even get to ride to work. Wherever I go, they go. Their needs come first because that is the order of things. But giving up riding because it might disable me from caring for my family? Or become a greater burden on them should something happen? You know, after having cancer and the frame of mind that hell put me through, I have to say, that mindset of giving up riding to assuage a fear of risks is a futile effort to buy something never guaranteed to us in the first place.

What Wangta is dealing with is not a question of self sacrifice for those he loves. As if none of us were replaceable. I believe the thing he's dealing with is he can't make the decision on his own whether or not the risk is worth it. And the longer he takes, the more the question will take over his thoughts.

There will be a price he'll pay no matter which choice he makes. And if he continues to put off choosing, he's still made a choice.

I wonder if he had this much trouble getting the scooter in the first place.

Harv

I think about it!

I'm extra cautious because I'm married. I don't want to leave my husband alone, he'd be devastated. I've made compromises to make him a little happier about my riding. I don't go over 45 mph. I wear almost full gear even for short putterings and I put on my armored overpants for any ride longer than 2 miles. And honestly, if I had young kids I'm not sure I would ride. But children are the only beings who are ever truly dependent on you. Spouses and other loved ones want and even need you around, but they aren't dependent on you. And let's face it, life itself is dangerous. You never know when something bad will happen or you'll get sick. I'd feel pretty stupid to be so cautious as to give up something I love only to get cancer or get hit by a car crossing the street.

On the other hand, a car is just not practical for my everyday commute plus it's bad for the environment. My choices were not car versus scooter, but scooter versus bike. A bike is actually more dangerous, because I'd be walking it back up the big hill I live on. Even if we moved somewhere flatter, I'd still keep the scooter since the freedom to quickly run errands, stop at the store on the way home and pick up groceries, and to bop home on breaks makes my life soo much easier.

In many ways I see scootering as a responsible choice for those of us who can't bike to work or take public transportation.

It's a trade off of risks, benefits, and needs.



ETA: Oh and from the title I thought this was going to be a thread on 'should I still be riding a vespa now that I'm turning 70?' I can see 40 heading my way so 30+ as 'older' gives me a little twinge!

I am not looking for approval/validation/praise - rather, I was curious if other people thought about this stuff when they ride. I think a whole 2 people acknowledged they did. I tried to thoughtfully put out a perspective, followed by a question to induce thought - my attempt at implementing the socratic method. And just because this is a scooter forum does not mean that people will not think about this stuff. Ask skydivers - do you think about your family, do you sometimes think about giving it all up? I think they would all say yes, but they can support their actions with some type of rational. Thats all i was trying to understand - before you get on your scooter, and after having thought about the risks, how you rationalize your actions.

If people here (which has obvoiusly been the case) decide not to think this way, or are not open to another point of view, thats fine. I can see how you would see my perspective as a bit "arrogant" - then again, you can see how I see your perspective as very "childish/selfish". Right?

As I said before, lets agree to disagree. We don't see eye to eye on this. I just hope that you're never in a position where you depend on people, and something bad happens to them due to an arguably questionable decision on their part. You can say now - "that's life" and that everything would be fine, but the fact is that you never know. Ride safe!