Modern Vespa

I just bought a used 2005 GTS with a pretty good ding on the legshield just above the front fender. The Vespa dealer wanted $2300. to fix it, maintaining that since the dent was near the crease of the bodywork design, the only way to proceed was to cut the legshield off at the floorpan and replace the whole section. This seemed pretty crazy to me...I have an auto bodyshop guy who did a very nice job repainting my ET4 and I'm going to have him fix this as well. Anyone have any real life experience with this type of repair with any suggestions? Is there anything tricky he should know when he attempts to remove the glovebox to gain access to the legshield?

getting that dent out will be a major pain in the but. I've seen bikes totalled for dents there. Getting the glove box off is easy, but the cooling system gets in the way big time.

in the old days i would have cut a piece of gauze the same shape but slightly smaller than the dent and stuck it over the dent with filler.

then apply filler over the gauze and sand until it matches the contours of the scooter.

paint and......hey presto!

kind of a cheap-skate way to fix it, i know, but i tarted up a few old cars this way in the past.

It's probable that we'll use a combination of banging and filling...I'd rather not get too involved in taking the cooling system apart. I guess we'll see how much we can bang out and smooth it out with filler. Since it's not likely that it will get hit there again it should hold and look fine.

That is the same dent I got from a guard rail...
Took off the glovebox,
couple off assorted weight ball pien hammers,
beat the living heck out of it....
Looks pretty good, slight bit of waviness left over...
With a little bondo could be very smoth again but I want to remember my stupidity everytime I see it...
Start at the end of the den and work toward the center..
Don't rush.
It will be a little difficult manuevering arount the column, just take your time.

If you do decide to fix it yourself Eastwood has tools and an instructional book that's well liked;

Key To Metal Bumping Book

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1638&itemType=PRODUCT


Regards
Harvey

Thanks for the input...I used the term "we" somewhat gratuitously...the guy who is actually doing the repair is going to do all the heavy lifting himself, but since he is not a scooter expert I was just doing a little research for him. If by removing the glovebox it becomes mostly a garden variety bodywork repair I'm sure he will do a nice job. I'll post some "after" pictures when the work is done. For the backstory on how I acquired this scooter see the thread on For Sale/Wanted - 2006 GTS 250ie

I would not ever suggest cutting the leshiel off at the floor board.

#1 this will forever be a week spot of your frame (Viet-Bodge anyone?)
#2 Weld will have to be absolutely perfect to give necessary strength
#3 Weld will have to be absolutely perfect to keep frame straight
#4 Weld will have to be absolutely perfect to get glove and floor board plastic to snap back on

Banging /bumping the dent back out is a labour intensive pain in the ass but it's not impossible. Might want to replace coolant system while you're there as no doubt you're about to bend all the aluminum fins if they're not bent already.

That crease is probably the hardest part to reach into. Remove fork/steering column as well as coolant system and bump out from inside. 10,000 little taps is better then 100 harder taps. Use some heat.

Be prepared to repaint. You can repaint entire frame or use a stripe. Touch up will be visible and a shame after going through so much trouble to remove dent.

Using bondo/filler is by far the cheapest solution. There is no bondo/filler known to man that is perfect. Filler can fall especially if temperature changes. Bondo/filler expands/contracts at different rates then the steel and will slowly begin to fall out.

Good luck

I finally got it home and had a chance to look at it more closely. I'm having difficulty posting photos directly to this site so here's a link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2006gts250ie/sets/72157608312388244/

Any other observations or suggestions would be appreciated.

A good body shop can fix that,they are gonna put a couple of tacks and pull it,or just fill it up with bondo.

Is it really something you can't live with? As I recall, you got a rather good deal on the 250 and from the sound of it you could put that good money toward accessories or another scooter! Think bullet-hole stickers

You're right...I'm in for a pretty good price so it's no big deal to spend a few hundred dollars and have the 250 looking nice...I'll always be able to get all of the $$$ back since I'll be in for less then $4k. The only accessory I'm thinking about is a top case.

For halloween, cover the bike with fake blood and fur. Try dragging somebody's arm or wheelchair...

Then after Halloween...

Just replace the headset. It's plastic.

The side looks like it might pop out with dry ice and heat gun.

Yeah, probably the worse spot to bump out is the front. It's pure labour. It's a lot of taking apart and putting back together.

Sand and paint to stop rust soon, even if it's temporary.

Not that bad to patch..
Take completely apart.
Use one ballpeen hammer, ball down touching the inner surface of the dent.
Use another hammer to strike the flat of the other hammer while holding it by the handle.
Using one hammer against the other like that saves your hands from misses and varying the ball size and the weight of the striking hammer you can do a passible job of knocking out the dent.
Prep and paint...

Thanks everyone for the comments...let me be very specific about my concerns here...the guy who is going to do the bodywork is very competent...he did a great job on my ET-4, however, he didn't have to take anything apart. In order to get at the dent in the legshield I believe that he will have to remove "stuff" behind the glovebox. I've downloaded the tutorial on removing the glovebox so I'm comfortable that he'll be able to get it off and put it back together...the question is whether the removal of the radiator and any other widgets to get at the dent requires any special Vespa knowledge, or will general mechanical aptitude be sufficient? From the photos on the glovebox removal tutorial it appears that the radiator is held in place with screws or bolts and can be easily moved...is there anything else that will have to be (re)moved?

They stuffed quite a bit in there but it's not brain surgery. I found the most difficult part was the glove box release latch on the key push (once you close it unattached it's tricky to open).

The other hard part is clamping down the frame so it doesn't move when you're hammering at it. Best way is to drop the fork so there's nothing to piss you off. I used a sheet of plywood and used an upside down milk crate I screwed upside down. That was my support base.

I dropped it off at the body shop this evening with the tutorials, etc...the bodyshop guy was way too confident...he sort of suggested that he might be able to get at it without taking off the glovebox...he started poking around the bottom of the legshield just above the fender thinking he might get at it from there...then he started eyeballing the air vent on the side of the legshield. I encouraged him to start by taking off the glovebox...I think I'll stop by in a day or so and see what he's up to. I'll mention your suggestion about bracing the body...Thanks.

Body shops have many more tricks then I know. Taking the glove box off is really the only way to get access to push out, but he might be thinking of pulling.

Minor smooth dents, like along your side can often be "popped" out. Alternating between cooling the steel (with dry ice or other means) then quickly heating (blow torch or heatgun) often "pops" the steel back into place. This really has to accessed by the size/shape of dent. Generally a smooth round subtle dent pops best. A double overlapping deep dent will not "pop". Takes more skill/experience then I've got to be successful at this.

Pulling a dent can be done a few ways. Your side might be able to be pulled with a powerful (electro-)magnet or suction cup. Often the one large dent is replaced by three or four smaller dents where the puller is braced against. Spreading the force out over a wider surface with plywood should stop that. But in no way is that front dent coming out like that.

The front dent might be pulled out by drilling small 5/8" holes through dent and inserting a spring anchor. Then with a steering wheel puller type tool it's braced against the body and pulled. Again the larger dent is often a trade for smaller dents. The holed is just filled afterward with bondo crap. I would prefer to see this filled with steel, welded in and grinded smooth but that's time/money/skill I don't have. However, I cannot see any possible way of pulling this dent out, as I don't see a way to brace the puller. But then I'm not a body man.

Other then that, it's pushing the dent out from in behind. Remove everything. The rads itself might be ok because they are lower, but the fan(s), hoses and wiring will all be in the way. I like as much out of my way as possible. Remove the rads anyways because dropping a tool will dent the easy to dent/crack/bust the expensive aluminum rads, but whatever.

Crudely ball peen out the dent is the first step obviously. Brute force of hammer with bike on center stand will push/roll scooter off stand pretty easy. I highly suggest a good tight brace.

This is pure labour. At $80/hr how many hour are you willing to fix this? I can see this repair job taking me anywhere from 15hours and up. I easy spent 50 hours on mine I mean and I didn't do the best job and admittedly much was just figuring stuff out. A flawlessly good job could take 100hours. Like I said 10,000 small taps is better then 100 hard hits. By that time you could have a brand new GTS. Doing what you can yourself will save cash. Also it will give you some sense of accomplishment.