Modern Vespa

But all those (except for Brazil maybe) are much more expensive (both economically and environmentally) to process. It's not that the days of oil are passed, it's that the days of cheap oil is past.

Still kind of shocked that SUV sales have recovered so quickly. From a manufacturers point of view I'd cash in on any demand at all. I bet they're not offering them on lease any more though.

That's what I was getting at. It isn't that there isn't any oil, it's just that cheap oil is becoming scarcer and the supply controls are only going to work against consumers. Just because it may exist in the places you mention doesn't mean the Canadians or Brazilians are going to "give it away".

If we're in full recession swing by winter, you can bet that the first hint of "recovery" will put oil back at $100+ dollars/barrel. It isn't a matter of just how much is left and how long it will last, but how OPEC will control it moving forward to maximize their profits and longevity.

So if Brazil or Canada flood the market with cheap oil, how do you think the Saudis and OPEC will react? All they have to do is cut output of whatever supply they've got left and that stabilizes the price or pulls the price back up. Price fixing is illegal among companies who do business in the USA. Oil cartels and the global market? Price fixing is JOB #1.

The $$100+/barrel precedent has been set. Now that "they" know what people are willing to pay when the demand exists, that what's they're going to charge. When global demand is down, they'll charge less.

It's a game and we're the suckers. So go ahead, hedge your bets accordingly, but if we ever see "cheap" gas ($2+/US gallon nationally in the USA) it will only be because demand will be so low due to stagnant or worse economic growth. When things "improve", oil/gasoline prices will improve too, but for suppliers, not for consumers.

SUVs? Well, the "Big Three" made out like bandits on those babies. Where are they now?: Get your SUVs now, folks. They ain't gonna be growin' em like they used to moving forward.

maybe I am a tree huggin hippy?

I dont own a big piece of gas guzzling crap, thats for sure.

But I do find some of the arguments, er, interesting.

Rather than consume petroleum (and other fossil fuels) like its a never ending resource, just for the sake of consuming, I consider it to be both an ending resource, and a planet killer.

One generation of humans has shit so much crap (from the burning of fossils) into the nest that is planet earth, that the nest is getting pretty full, and either the crap is gonna magically disappear, or humans (me and you) as a species, will end up as some dinosaur being poked in a museum in another 1000000000 years (or worse, as a source of fossil Fuel).

my choice - shit less in the nest in the hope the nest can fix itself a little.


pointless consumerism - helping humanity drown in its own shit!

That's what I was getting at. It isn't that there isn't any oil, it's just that cheap oil is becoming scarcer and the supply controls are only going to work against consumers. Just because it may exist in the places you mention doesn't mean the Canadians or Brazilians are going to "give it away".

If we're in full recession swing by winter, you can bet that the first hint of "recovery" will put oil back at $100+ dollars/barrel. It isn't a matter of just how much is left and how long it will last, but how OPEC will control it moving forward to maximize their profits and longevity.

So if Brazil or Canada flood the market with cheap oil, how do you think the Saudis and OPEC will react? All they have to do is cut output of whatever supply they've got left and that stabilizes the price or pulls the price back up. Price fixing is illegal among companies who do business in the USA. Oil cartels and the global market? Price fixing is JOB #1.

The $$100+/barrel precedent has been set. Now that "they" know what people are willing to pay when the demand exists, that what's they're going to charge. When global demand is down, they'll charge less.

It's a game and we're the suckers. So go ahead, hedge your bets accordingly, but if we ever see "cheap" gas ($2+/US gallon nationally in the USA) it will only be because demand will be so low due to stagnant or worse economic growth. When things "improve", oil/gasoline prices will improve too, but for suppliers, not for consumers.

This sounds like feel-good one upmanship....

There is always somebody who will be doing more than you are, so just do what makes you feel good without casting judgement on others.

...to hell with the consequences such as job losses enviromental affects and unsustainability. capitalism...what a wonderful sysytem

Job losses? My family lived in poverty in Europe for generations and came to US for opportunity. We work hard, start businesses and employ others. Job losses-please. If more would try working hard instead of expecting to be taken care of this would be an even better world. (Oh yeah-we don't pollute either.)

No casting of judgement on others - just challenging the opinion

You forgot this as a cleaner option to aeroplanes, cars and scooters;

This site suggests otherwise - what gives one country the right to pollute more than another?

I think China has a right to grow - as much as I hate them - the West has a responsibility to work with China, and India, to prevent the same stuff-ups it has made.

Its also about everyone doing their bit - using less, buying less useless crap, buying local product and produce, thinking twice before jumping in the car.

I may be a grain of sand, but eventually there will be enough grains of sand who think the same and form a beach.....

A favourite quote of mine is an American Indian saying -
"Treat the earth well:
it was not given to you by your parents,
it was loaned to you by your children.
We do not inherit the Earth from our
Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children."