@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
Moderator
@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
A few threads have been started about keeping warm already. One poster wrote about the chilling effects of a 40 degree F ride.

Now's the time to bring ourselves up to date on two very important topics:

1. Hypothermia
2. Wind Chill Factor

Hypothermia is the lowering of body temp below the normal 98.8 F. At about 96.6 you can start to see degradation in motor coordination and mental alacrity. In short, we become less capable of operating a two wheeler safely.

Wind Chill factor is the effect that wind causes in accelerating body heat loss. Riding at 40 mph at 40 degrees F is the same as standing still in a temperature of 10 degrees F.

We all tend to protect the bulk of our bodies to ward off cold, but often neglect our lower extremities. Warm gloves, scarves and parkas are a good start, but light weight, porous trousers can lead to considerable heat loss in our legs, and this can result in a lower overall body temp, regardless of how well we protect the rest of our bodies. Most people are less sensitive to chilling temps and wind in their legs than the rest of their bodies. Lack of discomfort in your legs is not indicative of a proper overall body temperature, while considerable cold induced discomfort in your hands may not be an indicator of hypothermia at all.

The best protection against hypothermia while riding is a wind proof outer layer and good thermal insulation underneath. Don't leave your legs unprotected. I once rode the scoot 20 miles at 45-50 mph on a 40 degree day to a doctor's appointment, wearing weather protective clothing except my slacks, which were plain chinos. The nurse did the obligatory temperature check five mins after I arrived, and it was 97.5 F, something that had never been the case before. When the Dr saw me and looked at the temp, he immediately asked if I rode the scoot. He retook my temp, and it was 98.3 F. In the 30 mins waiting for him, my body temp had recovered somewhat. He pointed out that my slacks were really unsuitable for riding in the lower temps.

So, keep in mind that all of your body needs proper thermal and wind protection when riding in the colder winter months. Not just because your body needs it, but because you motor and mental skills are key to safe riding.

Ride safe

Al
@sallad avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1231
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 
Molto Verboso
@sallad avatar
GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1231
Location: Brooklyn, NY
UTC quote
Re: Cold Weather Riding Safety
Aviator47 wrote:
Don't leave your legs unprotected.
Agreed 100%.

I think we (scooter riders) sometimes forget that since we have the somewhat luxury of the legshield (and in general in life we always layer up the upper body but don't often do the same for the legs).

This time of year I'll wear a pair of LL Bean flannel lined work pants. If it's very cold or a long ride I'll toss on some thermals underneath. And I always keep wind/rain pants in the seat. Even a thin pair of rain pants does wonders for retaining heat and keeping out the clod blasts.

Stay warm...
@captainwhoopass avatar
UTC

Hooked
ET4, Vespa S 150, Lambretta DL200, Serveta Jet 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 347
Location: Edmonton Canada
 
Hooked
@captainwhoopass avatar
ET4, Vespa S 150, Lambretta DL200, Serveta Jet 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 347
Location: Edmonton Canada
UTC quote
I can't stop raving to anyone and everyone who will listen about how great my new Corazzo scooter blanket/apron thingy is.

I felt like a complete twat when I first put it on. Let me tell ya, that feeling lasted all of about 45 seconds. I don't know why I ever scooted in cold weather without one. Leg saver indeed!
@still_shifting avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Chetak
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2033
Location: New Mexico
 
Ossessionato
@still_shifting avatar
Chetak
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2033
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
Flannel lined heavy canvas jeans. If I'm serious (and I'm getting to be a real wus about cold any more) I wear long underware and I can ride 'till freezing. The jeans are sold by Duluth Trading Co. Keeping it warm... R
@menhir avatar
UTC

Moderator
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5145
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Moderator
@menhir avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5145
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
UTC quote
Quote:
The best protection against hypothermia while riding is a wind proof outer layer and good thermal insulation underneath.
Absolutely. The italics are mine because in my experience, getting a wind proof barrier makes it all come together. In near-freezing temperatures at speed, the wind can take away a lot of heat if it gets through regardless of the insulation.

I wear windproof insulated ski pants over my Draggin' Jeans in the cold. Ski pants have the added bonus of being waterproof too. Wet and cold is no party.

On top, I always have a cheap plastic rain jacket in the scoot. After I put on all the warm stuff, I'll put the rain jacket over it, too. It makes a huge difference. Actually, I've cut down the rain jacket so I can fit it under my riding jacket if I like.

Aerostich offers a windstopper shirt that I'm looking into. That would replace the plastic rain jacket.
@debdarling avatar
UTC

Hooked
2007 GTS, "Isabella"
Joined: UTC
Posts: 297
Location: Toronto Canada
 
Hooked
@debdarling avatar
2007 GTS, "Isabella"
Joined: UTC
Posts: 297
Location: Toronto Canada
UTC quote
I can attest to everything Al said! We drove out at night a couple of weeks ago in 8C weather- windy- and after about 2 hours I developed the beginning stages of hypothermia. I could feel the heat suddenly dump right out of my body, got a little disoriented and rather frightened.

I know it was because my legs (primarily) weren't warm enough. I have since ordered silk long underwear- and flannel lined jeans from LL Bean. I have two balaclavas, new gloves and extra neck protection.

I pooh-poohed the whole risk of it until it happened to me. Now I have gear coming out the wazoo and am glad of it.
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
Moderator
@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
I worked as a substitute teach for several years before we moved here. Great retirement job. Work when you want to and no conflict with boating season!

I would put a pair of loose fitting boating foul weather pants on over my trousers for the ride to the high school when the weather was cold. Made a huge difference. Get to the school, slip off the rain pants and instant proper dress.

Al
@pdxvespa avatar
UTC

Modératrice
2005 Cobalt Blue ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6952
Location: Portland, OR
 
Modératrice
@pdxvespa avatar
2005 Cobalt Blue ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6952
Location: Portland, OR
UTC quote
Great advice, Al. I do love my Tucano Urbano pile-lined Termoscud laprobe!

--Deborah
@ebongreen avatar
UTC

Hooked
Piaggio MP3 250 Sky Blue "Mahayana II"; RIP "Mahayana I"
Joined: UTC
Posts: 247
Location: Minneapolis, MN
 
Hooked
@ebongreen avatar
Piaggio MP3 250 Sky Blue "Mahayana II"; RIP "Mahayana I"
Joined: UTC
Posts: 247
Location: Minneapolis, MN
UTC quote
Captainwhoopass wrote:
I can't stop raving to anyone and everyone who will listen about how great my new Corazzo scooter blanket/apron thingy is.

I felt like a complete twat when I first put it on. Let me tell ya, that feeling lasted all of about 45 seconds. I don't know why I ever scooted in cold weather without one. Leg saver indeed!
How fast do you go with your Corazzo scooter blanket, Captain? They recommend not doing highway speeds with it, but if I'm gonna get one, I'm gonna use it when I travel I-35 to get groceries! Have you had any fluttering or dislocation if/when you've gone WOT?
UTC

Hooked
Racing Sixties 300, Cub, Gold Wing, Can Am
Joined: UTC
Posts: 245
Location: NoVA
 
Hooked
Racing Sixties 300, Cub, Gold Wing, Can Am
Joined: UTC
Posts: 245
Location: NoVA
UTC quote
I wore flannel lined jeans for years, till I tried polar-tec lined jeans, oh yeah.

When it's gets really cold I go to polar-tec sweats under a Aerostich suit.
And never leave home without your electric vest.
@no_cattle avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2005 ET2 70cc, 14 mirrors, 2 headlights, lots of LEDs and a 2005 GT200 restored after a crash, 1978 SIL Lambretta GP200 and a 1983 Cushman Truckster
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1628
Location: Calgary AB
 
Molto Verboso
@no_cattle avatar
2005 ET2 70cc, 14 mirrors, 2 headlights, lots of LEDs and a 2005 GT200 restored after a crash, 1978 SIL Lambretta GP200 and a 1983 Cushman Truckster
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1628
Location: Calgary AB
UTC quote
Ebongreen wrote:
Captainwhoopass wrote:
I can't stop raving to anyone and everyone who will listen about how great my new Corazzo scooter blanket/apron thingy is.

I felt like a complete twat when I first put it on. Let me tell ya, that feeling lasted all of about 45 seconds. I don't know why I ever scooted in cold weather without one. Leg saver indeed!
How fast do you go with your Corazzo scooter blanket, Captain? They recommend not doing highway speeds with it, but if I'm gonna get one, I'm gonna use it when I travel I-35 to get groceries! Have you had any fluttering or dislocation if/when you've gone WOT?
I'll answer. Yeah, go highway speeds. 300km trip from Edmonton to Calgary at 120km/hr in cold with scooter skirt is THE way to go.
@teller avatar
UTC

Member
Vespa GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 31
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
 
Member
@teller avatar
Vespa GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 31
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
UTC quote
Two things that work wonders:

- Apron (I have Vespa one myself)
- Windstopper underwear (I have Rukka stuff)

Works magic.

Teller @ Tallinn, Estonia
@dave_c avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS 250 'Fafner'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: NJ
 
Hooked
@dave_c avatar
GTS 250 'Fafner'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: NJ
UTC quote
two words: M-65 parka. I love that jacket. It is wind proof and water resistant and warm as all hell. Plus the over sized hood (designed to be worn over a military helmet) fits over a full face. Those mods were really on to something in the 60's.
@grind avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2666
Location: Brookfield, WI
 
Ossessionato
@grind avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2666
Location: Brookfield, WI
UTC quote
I'm too lazy to search to see if I've written about body heat loss before. Razz emoticon

I learned alot from ski patrol. One does not get cold, one loses heat. In order to not get cold, we must understand the primary mechanisms of heat loss. There are five ways you lose heat:

Conduction - the transfer of heat from a warmer object to a cooler object when the two objects are in direct contact with each other. Since a scooter's non-moving parts, with the exception of heated seat and grips, are at ambient temperature, you can lose heat from your butt, hands and feet. Conduction is also a major source of heat loss in wet clothing, due water's excellent conductive properties.

Convection - heat loss occuring in response to movement. Heat loss occurs when warm air next to the body and in the clothing is displaced by cool air from the outside environment. The biggest factor contributing to convective heat loss, of course, is wind.

In addition to wind-induced or "forced" convection, "passive" convection occurs via the "chimney effect" that draws cool, dense air into our clothing from pants cuffs and waist hems, displacing warm, light air that exits out of our neck hems and other vents.

Radiation - heat loss from the human body, due to infrared emission. Similar to convection, but without the movement factor.

Evaporation - a winter traveler's worst enemy.

Evaporation occurs when a liquid (such as sweat) changes phase to a vapor (sweat vapor). This phase change requires heat. Unfortunately, your body heat drives this phase change.
Evaporative heat loss from perspiration can occur in one of two ways. Sensible (or "active") perspiration is caused by the formation of liquid sweat droplets at the skin surface in response to excess heat. This excess heat is usually a result of being dressed too warmly for a given activity level. Insensible (or "passive") perspiration is the direct emission of sweat vapor from the skin in response to a humidity gradient (i.e., your skin is "drying out"). Insensible perspiration is most significant while at rest, or while sleeping, while sensible perspiration is most significant during periods of activity.

Respiration - Technically, respiration combines the processes of evaporation (of moisture in the lungs) and convection (displacement of warm air in the lungs by cold air from the outside environment). Because humidity in the lungs is 100%, respiration is an important heat sink in cold, dry conditions.. Significant moisture (and thus, body heat) can be lost when that moist air is exchanged with much drier outside air. In addition, some body heat is lost to the process of warming the cold air entering your lungs.

So, how do we minimize all this heat loss?

In short, get a seat pad (closed-cell, sheepskin, etc.), wear gloves with thin, densely padded palms and 'loftier' backs and thick, minimally compressable socks inside your sturdy, thick soled boots to reduce your conductive HL.

Wear windproof jacket and pants with adjustable cuffs and hems to cut back on convectice HL.

Since riding a scooter isn't generally a strenous physical activity, evaporative HL shouldn't be too much of a problem. But, beware of overheating your body to the point you start sweating.

Radiative HL isn't real high on the meter as much as other HL mechanisms, either. Insulating type clothing will help that.

In theory, respiratory heat losses can be minimized by breathing air that has been pre-warmed and/or pre-humidified prior to taking it into the lungs. Breathing through a fleece balaclava or face mask can improve respiratory comfort by increasing the humidity and warmth of air being breathed prior to its entry to the lungs.

I hope I didn't miss anything.
UTC

Enthusiast
2009 LXV 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 81
Location: Seattle
 
Enthusiast
2009 LXV 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 81
Location: Seattle
UTC quote
Very informative. Thanks for going through the science.

I've been making sure my head, neck, core and feet are warm, and trying to find the solution for my hands. But have absolutely disregarded my legs because as a bicycler they're rarely the issue. On the scoot that changes. Since we're at about 35-40 degrees here in the mornings and not too wet (the Seattle rain hasn't started, yeah!) I want to keep riding as long as possible. I'll be trying some rain pants but if that isn't working move to the thermal underpants. And if that doesn't work, I may just try one of those aprons!
UTC

Hooked
'01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 384
Location: chicago, IL USA
 
Hooked
'01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 384
Location: chicago, IL USA
UTC quote
Still Shifting wrote:
Flannel lined heavy canvas jeans. If I'm serious (and I'm getting to be a real wus about cold any more) I wear long underware and I can ride 'till freezing. The jeans are sold by Duluth Trading Co. Keeping it warm... R
i love Duluth Trading Co.!!!
@jlb avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2007 Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1624
Location: Titusville Florida
 
Molto Verboso
@jlb avatar
2007 Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1624
Location: Titusville Florida
UTC quote
I wore long pants today. It was 68 degrees, and I survived, but my lips were severely chapped.
@grind avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2666
Location: Brookfield, WI
 
Ossessionato
@grind avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2666
Location: Brookfield, WI
UTC quote
Re: Cold Weather Riding Safety
Aviator47 wrote:
I once rode the scoot 20 miles at 45-50 mph on a 40 degree day to a doctor's appointment, wearing weather protective clothing except my slacks, which were plain chinos. The nurse did the obligatory temperature check five mins after I arrived, and it was 97.5 F, something that had never been the case before. When the Dr saw me and looked at the temp, he immediately asked if I rode the scoot. He retook my temp, and it was 98.3 F. In the 30 mins waiting for him, my body temp had recovered somewhat. He pointed out that my slacks were really unsuitable for riding in the lower temps.
Just a note about body temp. 98.6° is not normal, it's average. That's average among people, not yourself. For example, over the past few years, a bunch of visits to the Dr, my temp was always 97.3°. When I commented to the nurse that it was because I was so cool 8) , she told me the info I stated.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0271s ][ Queries: 3 (0.0136s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]