Modern Vespa

I recently had my 6000 mile service performed on my 250. I asked that the rollers and belt be replaced when they had it apart. When I got the bill I was charged $27.50 each for the 6 rollers for a total of $165 plus tax just for the parts. I challenged the price and was told that is what Piaggio is charging them and that their complaints to Piaggio have fallen on deaf ears. They actually asked me to contact Piaggio direct to help get the miss-billing problem corrected and they would gladly refund me.

The dealer has been great and I believe honestly frustrated in this situation. They cannot be expected to charge me less than their cost and the problem is at Piaggio. I expect the problem is charging a set price for each individual roller with an error in a computer somewhere. The dealer says this is a problem on some size rollers but not others from Piaggio.

I emailed customer service on the Piaggio web site and have had no reply. This is the kind of bull that drives good customers away. Anyone have a better route to get Piaggio's attention?

The rollers for my 500 are only $4.00 and some change each.

Wayne B

I thought the price was always for a set - not for individual rollers. USD27.50 sounds just right for a set of 8 rollers.

Agreed. You can't buy them singly. The part number is for a set. That is also true in the US.

For example looky here

Your dealer is a LYING SCUMBAG.

Go back in with this evidence and DEMAND your money back. And then take your business elsewhere in future.

I know the price is wrong.

The dealer says they know the price is wrong but blames Piaggio.

Piaggio won't return my emails. How do I get Piaggio's attention to sort this out. They should either correct the problem on their end or straighten out the dealer.

I could be wrong but I trust my dealer. They are a long term Piaggio dealer doing lots of business. they have been straight up with me and give lots of help. Until I get to the bottom of this I will not convict the dealer.

the right thing for your dealer to do is to refund you first and hammer it out with piaggio later. he shouldn't be passing the mistake on to the customer, whoever's mistake it is.

i'm sorry but i disagree with you and I don't think you should leave your dealer out of this. he shouldn't even have sold you the stuff in the first place, having been in the business for so long and knowing that the price is wrong. but to him, business comes first. go figure.

i understand that you still need to go to him as long as you own the bike so i see the need to maintain a good relationship with him. so if he values you as a customer as much as you value him, he should do the right thing and refund you first. if he doesn't then you have may have to seek other means, legal if you have to, to get your money back.

MP3 500 Piaggio Part Number 830899 qty. 8 $4.83 each total $38.64 is what my receipt states.



Just checked parts manual for the 250, number is 842870 shows gty. 8

Wayne B

I've noticed a trend with some of the MP3'ers on the forum. I think I know the cause of it too.

They tend to treat the dealers like relatives or like super nice folks. Now I'm not saying some are, but I think I know why.

Most people don't go into a car dealer to purchase a new car thinking, "This guy is gonna be very nice and in now way will try to screw me over." I think most adults understand what is about to happen when they go into a car dealer to purchase an auto. They know the game. The dealer wants money and honestly couldn't give two cents about your enjoyment of the ride. Sure he doesn't want you to return it, but he knows that is unlikely and he has his 'gameplan' laid out thanks to strict training and intense pressure from his boss to sell, sell, sell.

So why do people have this change of heart toward their MP3 salesman? I think the answer is because the Mp3 does two things: 1- it usually falls into a second vehicle set aside for the sole purpose of 'fun'. 2- It is actually very fun and brings a great enjoyment to the rider- hence, this forum. What happens next is that the owner passes this feeling of enjoyment on to the buying/dealer process. They don't want to diminish or tarnish their great enjoyment of the vehicle by having a crappy purchase experience. What I'm saying is that most owners who could easily take a brand new car back when something 'fishy' or a 'malfunction' of any sort arises can't do this with the mp3 because they don't see their mp3 as another Red 500 or whatever straight off an assembly line. Many have had to wait months, done mods, and even special ordered parts. I had a friend who once took back a brand new yellow Firebird(when they were brand new body styles) that most of us drooled over because when he got it home the left mirro was cracked. The dealer told him he could order one and it would be in in 3-4 weeks because they were so new. My friend flat out returned it, raised hell, lemon laws and such were mentioned, and went down the road and brought a brand new Camaro. I just don't see enough of that with mp3'ers. Now I'm not saying take it back and don't budge. Some of us can wait for a part or two, but in the last couple of weeks, I've seen what could only be called ''dealer abuse''. Things from no registration being filed, to variator parts being jacked up on price, to guys not getting the bike fixed, etc. etc.

To put it into terms I'm talking about, let's say Fuzzy's variator rollers were a car issue. Now you take your 1.5 year old car into a dealer for a scheduled maintenance. You decide to have new belts put on. Let's say the car belt costs $20 at autozone. The dealer puts it on and says, "That'll be $200 for the belt." You inform him that its $20 at autozone and through the manufacturer. He says, "Tell that to the manufacturer. That's the price they put into our system. We have to go by the system." I'm sorry, but that is not acceptable. I don't leave pissed at the beltmaker, I leave pissed at the dealer. My response would be something like, "Well make sure to tell the system that you just lost a lifelong customer over an obvious computer error that any monkey could see, and that this customer is gonna make sure all his friends know to never come here because they will screw you over. You can type that all in, right?"

Sorry for the long post, I'm just getting fed up with Mp3ers lying down and taking it from the dealer because the dealers know you think your ride is the only one you'll ever be able to get your hands on and they're the only people who will ever be able to service it.

What are you talking about? There is a wrong price in the system in this instance? It will get fixed, just may take some time. Most scooter dealers are mom and pop shops not trying to RIP you off just as most car dealerships aren't trying to rip you off.

I have VERY GOOD dealers for my MP3 and my other vehicles.

Wayne B

If MOST car dealers weren't trying to rip you off, there'd be no need for lemon laws, auto consumer advocate groups and car buying wouldn't be listed under the 10 most stressful moments in life in several surveys.

But you miss my point. Even if EVERY scooter dealer and EVERY car dealer were little angels, THIS particular situation is ridiculous. As a dealer, YOU DO NOT pass on mistakes of manufacturers to your customers when YOU KNOW its a mistake and even if you didn't, THE CONSUMER MADE YOU AWARE OF IT! Any dealer with a lick of sense would've looked at this and said, "Wait a minute. That's not the right price." or even if they didn't initially see it, would have realized that a regular nice customer said it wasn't. By making him pay the full amount and saying YOU THE CUSTOMER MUST DEAL WITH THE MANUFACTURER, they're in essence either saying we don't care or we don't believe you. Take your pick.

The argument of whether or nor the majority of car dealers are scumbags is another topic altogether. I feel one way, you feel another. I was just saying that this situation with Fuzzy backs up the way I feel, not the way you feel.

I'm with Shawn in that the dealer should take the bull by the horns and negotiate with Piaggio *if* it's a computer error. I'm assuming that the rollers are bought as a set - no other way would make sense. So somehow or another the dealer ordered them as is they were singles not sets. There is no way Piaggio would have them set up to buy onesee-twosees. It should be obvious when they came in they were sets. I'll bet they come wrapped as a set. So I'm putting my money on the dealer trying to rip you off. Shawn is correct that the dealer tries to foster a good-ol boy feeling they exploit when necessary (from their point of view). Being friendly doesn't cost 'em a thing and pays back when they get away with this sort of thing.

Hi Fuzzy. Is this dealer Scooter Superstore, formerly Moto Bravo in Midtown? I know that you have mentioned them before. And they have been my strong consideration for purchasing an MP3. I hope they get you taken care of. You might also mention to them your being a member here and find discussing your woes on this forum to be helpful.

I know that one time I went in there and was chatting with a sales guy, we went back and sat at his desk. He had MV already pulled up on one of his browser windows. If they feel that their internet reputation is on the line they might be more helpful.

Everyone seems ready to jump on my dealer and no one has advice on how to better get through to Piaggio.

I have specifically had above and beyond help from the parts manager and he is openly and honestly frustrated by this. I guess some think the dealer should eat a $100 loss in parts cost every time a user wants his rollers replaced on an MP3 250.

On the whole this dealer has saved me much more than the cost of this item and even if that makes me too nice I am not ready to give up on them. My bike was significantly discounted off of list. My 600 mile service was free. I was taught how to change my own rear tire which I have now done twice saving $70 labor each time. Their service department is skilled and competenet and they keep a large supply of parts. On the whole with all the dealer issues I have red on this forum I feel pretty good about mine.

I am sending another email to Piaggio customer service with a link to this thread. There was another thread of an individual getting the Piaggio US presidents email and getting help, but the address was not shared.

Now does anyone have any more advice on how to get Piaggio's attention or another contact route into their system?

Your contact with Piaggio *IS* your dealer. He can contact them directly, no problem. He can sort this out. If he refuses to do so, start legal proceedings, very simple.

Jimc, the dealer has broken no laws here charging a high price for parts. I have no legal grounds. This does not fit the lemon law as nothing is broken or unrepaird. There have been numerous posts here on problems with U.S. dealers having trouble getting help from Piagio USA. I am working with the dealer and trying to go direct to Piaggio at the same time. Their U.S. web page has an email address for customer support. The address is not yet getting me any support.

Hey Fuzzy,

I'm glad you have a good relationship with your dealer. That is a good thing to have when this does come up. I guess my disbelief is not with you, but with your dealer. I hope your right and his frustration is real and not an act. I just find it hard to believe that he is hands tied on this situation. If I ran a dealership and I charged this much and I knew that this price was wrong, I would not sell those parts. Which in turn would move me to contact Piaggio at all costs. In the meantime I would not jeopardize my current customers by overcharging them. That's what's bothering a lot of us, I feel. Its that the dealer is just leaving it to the customers to sort out and continuing to sell the parts at whatever Piaggio claims they cost without question.

As for contacting Piaggio, I wonder if you would have better/different luck by going through another dealer. What I mean is, find a dealer that sales a BUTTLOAD of mp3s. I know first hand from working in trade sales that bigger accounts get better treatment/communication. Have them try and contact Piaggio or at the very least, they might have a direct line. When I worked in trade sales, small accounts got our 1-800 number, medium accts got our direct lines at work, and premium big accts got our cell numbers!

The part numbers in all three MP3 Models show the rollers as sold by EACH, NOT a SET. Look for yourself if you don't believe me.

Wayne B

Bollocks. From the Fuoco parts list, 8 is the quantity included as stated, part number 830899 - yes that's a set of 8:


Cost (roughly from memory) about GBP17 retail.

If Piaggio US have ballsed this up, that's between the dealer and Piaggio - the customer should NOT be inconvenienced or overcharged. The dealer has the phone numbers, the customer should NOT be expected to jump through hoops to correct some flighty idiot temp in accounts mistake.

Thank deity my dealer would not do this. Fuzzy, get strict with your dealer, it can be 'friendly strict', but 'strict' it must be.

Well, I am not ready to jump on Fuzzy's dealer. And since, I kinda let the cat out of the bag about who we are talking about, here is what I can say about them. The particular shop has been in business a long time and has recently become part of a big conglomerate with 5 locations.

It may be possible that part of the issue is that this particular shop has lost its independence becoming part of a bigger group. I would suggest calling up some of the other locations, maybe they can help you out or point you to someone higher up in the corporate food chain. At least you can find out if other shops of the same group are having the same price issue. My guess is the problem is not with Piaggio or with this particular dealer, but rather the corporate structure that has taken it over. If it was a Piaggio USA issue, we would surely be hearing about this from people around the country.

BTW, this is also a great shop for restorations of vintage Vespas.

8)

I just bought rollers today for my MP3 400 and they were $24.00 USD. They came in a set of six. I told the parts guy that it was for a 400 and that I thought the it was 8 rollers. He said that was the correct part # for the 400. I will know more when I pull it apart.

Does the 400 use the same roller as the 250? When I got home I compared the new rollers with some from my 250 and they look to be the same.

R.B.

No. The 400 & 500 "rollers" are more like sliders and are blocky, not cylindrical.

https://modernvespa.com/pix/uploads/10102008228_11th_354.jpg

(pic from redfone's post here: https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic36495)

and obviously, we need eight of them. the set of six won't fit the 400.

The OEM rollers are cylindrical. That picture shows different parts.

i've never taken apart my variator unit before, i assumed those were the OEMs. thanks for pointing it out jim. but i hope i'm not wrong about the number of 'em too!

sorry, R.B.!

I did post earlier a link to ebay which seemed to be ignored. It is a link to a Vespa Eastside online auction for MP3 250 rollers part number 842870. The price? $29.10 buy it now, you can clearly see the bag, with the part number on it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Original-Piaggio-Vespa-Roller-Set-GTS-MP3-Part-842870_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ35623QQihZ015QQitemZ250288992288QQrdZ1

Vespa Eastside has several sets of rollers in their online shop.

Still points to the fact that your dealer is not being very honest with you, whatever you choose to believe.

No the 400 definitely uses 8 rollers. Part number is different for the 250.

jimc

The rollers I bought yesterday then are for my 250(6 in the bag). The bag is marked 842870. Will the rollers for the 400 look different?

I have 1 other question for you. What direction do the rollers face? Ok as you are looking at the trough where the rollers sit the plastic side of the roller would be on the right side in a counter clock wise direction? So as the engine spins in a counter clock wise direction the plastic side would rest on the right side of the trough and the open side of the roller wouldn't be a wear surface? Yes No?

When I got back from my 20 day 7000 mile ride on the CBR I pulled apart the variator on the 250 and 3 of the rollers had been in the other direction and they had rubbed the aluminum that's in the center of the roller. The centrifugal force moved the center of the roller out and was rubbing aluminum against aluminum. They had been installed in the wrong direction by my dealer before I left. It did not hurt anything but the roller. Any words of wisdom here jimc would be much appreciated. Thanks

R.B.

The 400 rollers will be a different colour and size. Part number 849914, set of 8.

The 'solid plastic' side is the thrust side - as you've found, the other doesn't wear well!

Looking at the BACK of the variator, the top roller will have the SOLID side on the LEFT. The splined cover pushes on the variator half via the four shoes, and the variator slides will push on the solid sides of the rollers. From the BACK the variator rotates clockwise.

The thrust on the side of the rollers isn't that high, and is only there at the start of acceleration or high load as far as I can visualise. I'd be glad of clarification of that from someone BTW!

HTH.

8)

jimc

Thanks for the clarification. The 849914 part # is the one I came up with also.

R.B.

Sent another email last night to Piaggio with a copy to the PR address on their web site and link to this thread. Stated I expected the courtesy of at least acknowledging receipt and attachrd my first email. This morning I got a call from the dealer saying they had straightened out the issue with Piaggio and have a refund for me. (The price is better than the EBAY one).

Latter this afternoon I got an email from Piaggio saying they got my email and asked me to be patient while they looked into it.

BTW The parts manager suggested being careful when verifying the number of rollers in a given variator. He said he has seen different ones from Piaggio on the same model scooter with diferent numbers of rollers. As forum members are around the world he has seen them put different variators on bikes shipped to different countries. He has also seen them change the variators unannounced on a given model. These were Piaggio but not necessarily MP3 related comments. However, on this thread an individual in London, England says 8 rollers in a 400 and another in Nevada, U.S. says his dealer insists it is 6?

As for me my delaer has taken care of me and I will continue to be loyal to them. A mistake was made and corrected. No real harm done and I'm happy. Possibly this thread helped and if so not the first help I had from modernvespa.com. Thanks to all who replied.

Thank you Fuzzy! It's post like this that not only give the forum an opportunity to help, but just posting it helps many others become aware of future problems and possible solutions.

Glad everything worked out for you and from your dealer. God knows it's not easy owning a machine that no one seems to recognize or understand, we need as many good dealers out there as we can find!

The 6-roller variators in the Master engines became obsolete some 4 years ago. Indeed, for some models that were originally fitted with 6-roller ones 8-roller ones were provided as direct replacements under warranty.

Mp3 250 2007



I saved my rollers from my 6,000 m. Belt change and rollers. And the ones I ordered have a design thats different from the ones I saved . Was there a design change . The ones that came off are hollow. And the ones I got new look like the ones on the E-bay ad. I weighed them on a postal scale and they both were the same. I wish I could post a pic. still unable.
Thanks Jimc for the description of direction of spin on installation.

Thanks

Erm, the ones on the Ebay ad are hollow, aren't they? They look very standard to me.

Good Morning , well it is here anyway


I agree , I realized that I didn't clarify . The inside diameter is greater on the originals compared to the ones I ordered to do my own replacement. And I would say it is larger by about almost an 1/8in. The outside looks identical. The new ones have a silver shiny end just like the E-bay ad. THanks again on the direction of spin info. By the way I went to my 1st track day . Just watched. I was an Aprilia only function. No racing allowed at this venue. Really nice set up though.

Thanks

Dave

Great news Fuzzy. Glad things got worked out.

This morning, while drinking coffee and surfing youtube scooter videos (ignoring my work) I came across this vid. MRP visiting the Hollywood FL location of the Scooter Superstore of America. I just thought I should post it, as he says towards the end that this is one of the best dealerships he has seen "in the world".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXJ1twKSvc

I think your loyalty has been well placed. See ya down the road.

You might want to compare the weight. Bigger hole in middle may mean less weight and different performance. In another active thread individuals are changing the rollers to get more acceleration.

Thanks for the info. on differances of roller design. I'm still baffled how this bike works. I just went on about a 500m. trip , and I don't think it burned any oil.

Thanks again

8)

I went coast to coast 7000 miles in September. Never needed any oil. I changed the oil in D.C. and rode all the way home and never added any oil. My 250 has 15700 miles and is running like it was new. The 250 engine is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!

R.B.

The (8) indicates number used on the bike or on the assembly. I use to work in auto and motorcycle parts depts.

Rollers are priced each. Here's a link, look at item number 2.
http://www.athensscooterco.com/eshopprod_cat_4797-48548-48426_product_603039.108_ROLLER_CONTAINER_ASSEMBLY.htm

Wayne B

while attempting to diminish my VAST ignorance on the CVT that will power my eventual Rocinante and am reading up... in the case above, while it does not seem the dealer is attempting to directly shaft the customer their "pass the buck" approach is, from where I stand, indefensible.