Modern Vespa

So my scooter was stolen a few months ago. I heard from a friend last week that it turned up at Vespa Charlottesville. I went there the next morning and sure enough, there's my less-than-a-year-old LX150 spray painted blue and black. It was pried into, but the body was okay. The vin was still legible.
Vespa Charlottesville's story is that they bought it from a guy who said he got it from the city auction. This sounded fishy so I asked for any proof they had of this. They produced a hand written receipt on a post-it note!
I had called this dealership when my scooter was originally stolen and told them to be on the look out for the vin. They had had it for a week and I had to find out from someone who just happened to know my scooter was stolen and thought to scratch off the spray paint and check to see if it was yellow underneath.
They had obviously bought my stolen scooter off the street and were planning on fixing it up and selling it for a profit!
What really pisses me off is that these guys are supposed to be the good guys. They are able to bypass the security system that we trust thieves will not be able to crack. Instead of being the good guys, they're really crooks themselves!
From what the dealership said, this isn't the first scooter they have bought from this guy. They were totally playing dumb acting like they thought the whole thing was on the up and up. They're fueling the stolen scooter trade in town!
I am so pissed! The cops took the scooter. I already sent the keys to the insurance company so the scooter is their problem. I'm out about $1,500 because of this whole thing and of course the pain and suffering of losing my scooter. I want blood! If I can get a conviction on Vespa Charlottesville the legal repercussions will be the least of their problems. I could try to go after the guy they bought it from (and trust me, I will try) but to me Vespa Charlottesville is the real villain in this story. They're the ones who would have made a real profit on my misery.
So for now, I'm just getting it off my chest. I'll keep you guys posted on what happens with the investigation.

uhmm that is horrible! eshk. I want to know what happens once your wrath is released on those responsible.

I Busted the Lambretta

too bad about your scooter, I am not sure that this post will hold up as this forum (MV) is not known as a place to vent and Bash on Dealers , how ever deserving they may be...

Wow ... something not so kosher going on there for sure! I would have thought that anyone buying a scooter would require proof of ownership before buying! Yes? No?

I think you were very wise to get the police involved. I'll be really interested to see where this leads. Having been ripped off myself for more than $1,300.00 by a disreputable dealer in Puerto Rico ... who sold me unusable parts, I am rooting for you!

Please keep us informed.

In before the busted lambretta, and all that. In all honesty, if you do plan to take legal action, do yourself a favor and delete this post.

That sucks. I really hope they keep this thread because you bring up a good point. Dealers that sell vespas should know better It had obviously been broken into and the vin was legible so they could of checked their paperwork. I mean how many dealers are in C'ville Even if the people who sold it to them really did get it as they say the dealer should of checked. I'm all for pressing the fact with police,lawyers etc. While it may of only been 1 person at the dealer who did it they work for the dealer therefore they represent the dealer. Things happen but it doesn't sound like they stepped up to the plate first thing so they deserve what they get as far as i'm concerned. Keep us updated and good luck.

Hey, Whitney, I'm glad they found your scooter. They usually do turn up , somewhat worse for the wear.

I had some problems getting a certificate of origin for a new Vespa from that dealer, but it was with a former owner in 2006. From that experience I found out that Virginia takes dealer licenses VERY seriously; you might complain to the DMV dealer licensing division; I doubt the Charlottesville police or the Commonwealth's Attorney can or will do anything.

A scooter is a motor vehicle, with the same registration laws as cars. I can't imagine a car dealer buying a used car, with no title, without checking the VIN against the stolen vehicle database.

In the end the dealer is out however much they paid the thief, so you get the last laugh on them.

That pitiful excuse for a receipt won't hold up as proof that they bought that scooter from anyone. You should push hard on the District Attorney's Office to prosecute the dealer. The dealer should (at the very least) lose his license to sell new & used motor vehicles. Chances are that an employee of the dealership stole the scooter and a good prosecutor would go after the dealership to send a message to others who might try the same thing.
You also probably have a good basis for a civil suit for the money that you are out. Since the dealer can't prove that they bought the scooter from anyone and since they were in possession of the scooter and attempting to sell it, the onus is actually on them to prove that they didn't steal the scooter.
i.e., you could sue the thief (the owner of the dealership) for stealing your scooter and the money you are out.
I hope the D.A. throws the book at them.

Well, at the very least, they are guilty of being in possession of stolen goods and any "dealer" selling motor vehicles of any kind knows better than this. What they provided is simply not a legal receipt and they KNOW it! Where is the registration???? How can anyone (let alone a dealer) sell any vehicle without the registration?

They don't have a leg to stand on ... in my humble and totally non-legal opinion. This likely isn't the first dodgy transaction they have been involved in and if that is what passes for a receipt in their minds, I think their books need to be audited!

can't believe there is no kind of vehicle log (v5) system like we have in UK

ferret: I don't know what the "vehicle log" that you mentioned in your post, consists of but in the USA, vehicles must be registered and the vehicle i.d. # that is embossed on the manufacturer's plate from the factory must match the number on the registration. Some states don't require a "Title" for proof of ownership if the vehicle is very old (approximately 25 years old or older) but most do. In order for a dealer or individual to sell a vehicle, the vehicle would have to receive a new registration and the VIN (vehicle identification number) would have to be typed into the Department of Motor Vehicle's database for that state to generate the new registration. If a vehicle had been reported as stolen, it would immediately trigger a message that the person who was attempting to register the vehicle and receive new license plates was in possession of a stolen vehicle.
I don't understand how this dealer thought they were going to get away with selling this scooter to someone else since they would immediately be discovered.
Also, a dealer of new & used vehicles knows very well that they must check the VIN with the DMV before purchasing or trading in a vehicle so they can protect themselves from receiving stolen property. This dealer is in BIG trouble.

Yup ... what XLR8 said. They are in deep $#!+

Hmmm, I wonder if they also rent scooters? They could easily get away with it if they just put it in their own fleet to rent. Or perhaps they could use it as a loaner for when they are servicing other customer's scoots. There are ways around having to worry about being found out.

I agree with your intent. Sometimes dealers do have stolen goods because people bring them in for service. The key here is they had intent to sell such stolen goods.

I know they have some sort of stolen vehicle registration for vespas here in the US because I know our local dealer here has put some vehicles in there for customers.

The S.A. dealer actually has a stolen vespa hanging from a sign out front. Someone brought it in because they didn't have any keys for it and asked them to give them a new ECU. Well they ran it and it came up stolen so they refused to do the work. It was stolen from the west coast and they called the cops, the insurance company, and the previous owner. No one would return their call or wanted anything to do with it so now it is on their sign until someone comes in to claim it (hasn't for over a year).

I found this in a quick Google search on "selling a vehicle without a title +virginia"

Buying or Selling a Vehicle Without a Title

Can't be done. A title is mandatory. If you're the seller, you must apply for a duplicate title before any transaction can be completed.

So how the hell did the dealer purchase it without a valid title? At the very least this would be enough to get them in deep shit with the DMV.

Edit -
You might want to contact these people also:

http://www.mvdb.virginia.gov/

"The Motor Vehicle Dealer Board will administer sections of the Commonwealth's Motor Vehicle Dealer Laws and Regulations as charged; promote the best interests of both the automotive consumer and dealer body; and process all motor vehicle related complaints promptly and professionally; while providing a high level of customer service."

A vehicle log (v5) is basically like your motor vehicle database its just a document which proves you are the registered owner of the vehicle a vehicle can't be sold without it. Because of the way this particular dealer has dealt with the stolen bike I just presumed there was no system in place. I now understand that this dealer has very shoddy business principles.

I've seen cases where the dealer will take in a bike when there's a high likelihood of it being stolen just to give it a higher chance of getting back to the owner. In that case they would cover their ass by making a copy of the seller's ID.

If they are not putting any obstacles in the way of returning the bike to you then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. If they are busy then it's not unreasonable for them to have not run the vin... I see no evidence that they had started fixing it up or had any intent to sell it.

Another fact that whitty brought up is that she called the dealer and told them it was stolen. As is stated in the original post you can see the yellow bleeding thru Even if "everybody" that works there didn't know about her call the fact that it was repainted,had the ignition tampered with,no key or paperwork should of been a clue to even a first time buyer of a secondhand scooter let alone a dealer. Who is held to a higher standard IMHO. ummgood your right about people not wanting them since they have probably been paid by their insurance company but at least that dealer is trying to find the person, just by having it there for all to see. Someone might recognize it. Also the OP'S dealer didn't really "find" the scooter they bought it. She called them not the other way around. If the dealer is "out" money than they should go after the person they bought it from and raise the bar on their "buying" pratices. If it looks shady you probably will get burned.

Thanks everybody. I'm working on getting in touch with the VA Dealer Services Dept. I'll tell you how they were planning on selling it. They hack off the 150 emblem and sell it back to the same shady people they bought it from. Then it doesn't need to be registered or anything.

I know this because the guy that told me it was there has one like that that he bought off them. His story is that it was stolen and recovered but the person didn't want it so Vespa Charlottesville fixed it up and sold it to him. How the insurance company didn't get it I don't know. It sounds to me like it's another stolen scooter that they "flipped".

And about taking this post down, how would it help scooterists to protect a dealership that is dealing in stolen scooters?

i think the worry here is dodgy lawyers using your own words against you when/if the case eventually makes it to court.

WHITTY you can buy scooters that have been stolen at auctions legally. Once the insurance company pays the claim they sell it. Dealers or sometimes even the original owner can buy it back from the insurance company. However you should have "legal" paperwork to go with the scooter not a, post it They don't have it so they are in BIG trouble. Good luck

Judy's right. There's supposed to be paperwork with any vehicle. I don't think you can walk into the DMV line and tell them you bought a motorized wehicle through a police auction without some proof you bought it at a police auction.

I suppose you can try to find out what auction, when it was held, see if you can get the legal paperwork in case the dept has a record of who they caught riding your scooter when it was stolen and then go after that person too. I don't know how you would do that, but I imagine you would be looking for the paper trail to the police auction they claim it came from, anyway.

Harv

bent as a nine bob note - did they do the paint job themselves, I wonder?

I will be interested to know if Vespa themselves have anything to say about how they will deal with one of their dealerships purchasing a scooter that has been questionably acquired, suspiciously held, gone oddly unreported, with intent for resale (admittedly still to be proven).

Thank you, Genie.

My suggestion wasn't in the spirit of NOT helping fellow scooterists, it was in the hopes that it WOULD help you down the road in your case. Do as you wish, however - blog about it, make a Craigslist post, review 'em on Yelp - I don't care!

I'm glad you got your scooter back, but until all the facts are determined, it's this one person's opinion that you could be do a better job at protecting yourself from future liability....

I can't seriously believe that a dealership would buy a scooter with a hack paint job and bogus receipt without considering it was stolen.


I think I would take both the seller and the dealership to small claims court for your out of pocket expenses.


Regards
Harvey

https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic32776?highlight=metropolitan

I got raked over the coals for showing concern for this.

I really hope that you can find some resolution, but don't make this your reason for living. Seriously? It's just not worth it. I'd make a few calls, do some complaining and see what you can find out from the state, maybe they will pursue it for you if it comes out that they're giant crooks dealing in stolen merchandise. BUT...don't let it consume you.

Any normal person would also ask, why is this year old scooter going for $550..
And no dealer or person would take a post it note for a reciept.
Where is the VIN, L-Plate info, address of seller etc..

This guy has stepped in the doggy poo big time!

Why? I want to hear about this stuff. This is not the first time I've heard of things like this going on...more info the better - for all of us.

Please keep us updated on the process. I want to know if dealers are crooks or just plain incompetent (not sure which is worse) - this is and should be PUBLIC information.

EDIT - Whoops, didn't see your second post Masala. You bring up a valid point, but just for myselfish reasons, I'd love to hear about this as it unfolds. But I guess hearing about it after the fact would be just as good. OP - do what you need to to 1) Punish the perps and 2) get a scooter back in your hands!

I am not for dealer bashing, but in this case I don't believe this situation is equivalent to dealer bashing. EVERY legitimate dealer knows there are scooter thieves out there, and they often try to pawn stolen scoots off on dealers. When a bike shows up with a shoddy paint job covering good paint, the ignition garfed up, no title, and a $550 asking price instead of around $3000, it's quite apparent what is going on.

At the very least, this dealer is grossly negiligent, and at the worst, they are taking part in fencing stolen scooters.

Many of us remember a few months back when someone rolled a scooter in to Motorsport Scooters trying to sell it under similar circumstances (minus the shoddy paint job) and their antennae immediately went up. Motorsport and another scooterist here on MV got the info, handed it over to the police, and the guy was nabbed and the scooter returned. That's how a pro shop handles it.

Something isn't right with this story, why was nobody arrested?

...yet.

While the paper work is lacking to say the least, and it sucks big time to have had your bike stolen, it's not clear that the dealer has done anything wrong and certainly not to the original owner.

If insurance was paid out on this bike then ownership has passed to the insurance company. For all anyone knows the auction was legit, the sale to the shop was legit...

It's a nice color combination.

Also? I've been giggling for hours about "Mrs. Genkins." WTF? Are you kidding me with this? Mrs. Genkins. BWA HA HA HA HA.

Gah this is such a scam. SCAM!

Dang it. I've been sucked in...

Also? I hope that this thread is not locked. I guess I get dealer bashing, (My dealer is worse than your dealer...) but this seems to serve as a warning. Maybe the dealer did buy it in good faith, but seriously? That "receipt" from Mrs. Genkins? I'd think the police would be looking into that post haste!

Couldn't you call Piaggio and see if this dealer orders a large amount of ignitions for scooters that have damaged immobilizers?

I don't know, you have to be able to build a case somehow, right? Ug. It's unfortunate that people are this stupid and this desperate and this dirty. I just know that my scooter is going to get stolen Thursday night because I'm supposed to put it in storage on Friday morning. Can't go sooner... It's been safe all summer. We'll see.

I spoke with the detective. He confirmed that the scooter had not been through their system and had not been sold at the city auction. I didn't think it had been because they would have called me to tell me they found it. He said he should have the case closed up by the end of the week.

I did go out and buy myself another scooter with the insurance money plus a pretty penny out of my own pocket. It's a yellow LX as well. It just happened that I found a private seller but before I found all this out I had been planning on buying the replacement from Vespa Charlottesville. They would have really made bank on me that way!

Do yourself a favor - buy the chain and Xena lock combo from the Xena guy! You won't lose your baby again!

If one or more individuals did something illegal, then they should be prosecuted. However, I would hesitate in accusing the dealership in this matter until all the facts are known. I'm not saying that they are innocent in this, and I'm not saying that they are not. At the very least, they should be responsible for the actions of their employees. However, other than in our minds, it also hasn't been established that the dealership is behind this action. Just be careful of how wide a brush you are painting with right now.

Michael: In the USA, one of your legal responsibilities as a dealer of motor vehicles is to ensure and take all precautions that you are not dealing in stolen property. Since scooters have a VIN plate (this one was still attached) and since this specific dealer used a Post-It note as a receipt to show to the police, you can bet your bottom dollar that they are in serious trouble. My grandfather was a New & Used car dealer for many years and he kept meticulous records as well as several checks & balances to ensure that he didn't get caught in these types of schemes. People regularly go to prison for this offense in the U.S. and unless this dealer can lay the blame specifically on one of his employee's, the dealer (him/her-self) will be standing in a courtroom in short order.

Shiet. I'd be scuuurrred if I was the dealer. Perhaps the OP should go back to them and try and buy a new scooter....they maybe willing to give a SERIOUS discount....but then again, who wants to deal with that type of company.