Modern Vespa

Was looking at the detail on this rebuild - looks like the guy put a ton of work and money into this. It even has the PX headset and fully hydraulic disk brake! I also love the star wheels - does anybody know where to get these?

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/mcy/894533095.html

Wangta-

Looks like a sweet scoot.

The "star wheels" are the standard front hubs for PX disc brakes. Note that he said he installed a PX fork and front disc brake. The actual wheel is the same as on your P200. Since a brake drum is not required, the "star" hub replaced the drum type hub that you have on your P200. The rear wheel on this P200 would look just like yours, as a brake drum is incorporated.

Al

Ah, ic. I'm just wondering how he would get a PX fork, headset and brake! PXs are hard to find around here, let alone a salvage one.

i think there's tons of them in europe ... but you'd be paying shipping and conversion rates.

Like this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VESPA-PX125-FORK-STEM-GOOD-CONDITION-2001_W0QQitemZ320308358388QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320308358388&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

This would be impractical to ship no? I can't imagine how heavy this must be!

The first thing I thought when I saw this scoot was "rebadged stella".

well, that's just the bare fork.

You need a complete fork, with the disc brake / hub on there.

Oh. I thought I would have to buy the disk kit seperately, then i could also use the stock hub, no?

You need to buy all of this crap for my P2. I'll rock it for a couple of years and then report back to you my opinions. That way you can buy only the good stuff for your scoot.

I think buying this stuff from Europe will cost more than the scooter itself. Yikes! Perhaps that semi-hydraulic is good enough!

We should figure out if one of the PK front fork variants will fit into a PX frame.

That's a really really solid front brake ( drum ) that works nearly as good as a disc. Plus it will be way cheaper.

i need those little black plastic grommets he has on the headset (they're plugging holes). anyone know where i can get them, let me know. i haven't been able to find anything the right size in a hardware store.

You mean these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VESPA-PX-P200-HEADSET-GROMITS-TO-FILL-IN-MIRROR-HOLES_W0QQitemZ300268502950QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300268502950&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

awesome man, thanks a million. i've been trying to find a set of those forever.

The front disc conversion is not cheap I work at a dealership and was thinking about doing this to my P200 it will take around $1500.00 for everything you need. I even tried a stella conversion and it was more than a vespa. So I just scored a 2002 PX200 for $1800 and know have a front disk. If you have the funds to drop then go for it if not just get a stella or a newer Px.

Very nice! How did you get a PX200 in the States for only $1,500? Those are quite rare in the states.

Wangta

I would repeat my oft said vintage Vespa guidance:

Ride it as Vespa intended and maintain it as Vespa recommends and you will get years of fine service.

A majority of Vespa "maintenance" is voluntary tinkering, and the maintenance that tinkering created.

Thousands and thousands of folks have ridden the same basic P200E as you just bought, ridden them stock, and ridden them as Vespa intended. They have enjoyed years of good service at reasonable cost. You seem to have found a jewel. Enjoy it as it was built and as it was intended to be enjoyed, and you should join those of us who see years of good service at reasonable cost.

But, if you want to tinker for tinkering's sake, have at it. It's your scoot to play with and your time and dollars to spend.

Al

I would also like to toss my +1 after Aviator's comments.

Have you even gotten your bike yet? Have you ridden it yet?

Is all this upgrade talk just your anxious energy spent waiting for it to arrive?

Call me shallow, vain, picky, what have you, but that color is ugly. What color gear could you possibly wear while not looking like either a dessert or a 50's sock hop.

Guys - REEEELAAAAAX. YES, I have gotten my scooter. YES, I have been riding it EVERYDAY. YES, I want to upgrade the brakes. YES, I plan on keeping it stock in the near term. YES, I plan on keeping the pinstripes near term. Yes, I don't plan on fucking with anything major for a couple months. But damn, can't I atleast start THINKING about the best way to put a disk brake on this? That is is the one and perhaps ONLY real modification I plan on doing - I am not a fan of the brakes system, especially in the front (60% of the stopping power). I consider this not just a gimmick, but a SAFETY upgrade.

I'm not here with a bankroll of money just burning a whole through my pocket. I want to do a brake upgrade, but want to be the most pragmatic about it, balancing cost AND value. I'm simply exploring all options at this point.

Hahah...good point. Even in all black you'd look like a Andes Mint candy.


it'd totally still rock that bike, though.

OK, I GET IT!!! Like the 10th time you've told me this I'm talking about adding a disk brake. Hell, the semi hydraulic one is a simple bolt on. This isn't anything crazy like adding JV pipe with reed valves, etc. By the way, didn't you add a molassi on your scooter?

I don't know anything about Stellas (LML's over here) but it does look a bit suspicious. Anybody know what that chrome looking disc is below the curry hook? It looks like a lock of some sort. Never seen on of them on a PX before.

It LOOKS like a key-switch of some sort... like the ones the '74 US-model rally had, and subsequent asian scoots have had installed.

Yeah we need to bear in mind that Wangta is riding his new P coming from riding a GTS. The brakes are going to feel very weird (and weak in the front). I don't think that desiring an upgrade for the front brakes is particularly odd.

Wangta - from someone who ISN'T riding his every day (and therefore in fact knows less than you) I believe the design calls for a slight adjustment of how much reliance is placed on front vs back brakes. The rear brake is far stronger so more care is needed in using it, but at the same time I think it needs to play a more primary role in stopping. That's the impression I got from the several times I've ridden mine around. Used in this manner I think the P stops well enough, but it isn't as good as it could be coming from using a modern Vespa brake system.

I don't have any money so I doubt I'll be changing my brakes out for anything better, but I can appreciate your motivation.

the headset is from a new 2005 px150. they filled in the holes where the mirrors use to be. looks like the wheels/disc brakes/shocks/legshield badge are from a new px150 too. they could have taken a px150 and put some p200 badges and tail light on it and slapped a p200 engine in it. don't know for sure, but doesn't really make it a true p200.

the price is way to high.

Legshield trim and mirrors from a T5 also.

I would guess that's the ignition. The frame is a pre 1984 (notice the cowl tabs) so it originally had a headset ignition. Modifying it to a column ignition would be a PITA.

My PX 150 is stock. The 1962 VNB 125cc I owned for 41 years remained stock. The only "mod" I might add to my PX is a non-catalytic pipe when the stock one rusts out.

Ardy's Yesterday does, indeed, have a Malossi 80 cc cylinder and Malossi balanced racing crank and bearings, along with a Gianelli non-catalytic pipe and attendant jetting adjustment. Thus, the entire engine was strengthen when we upped it to 80 cc. Did this to improve road performance, not to race it, and it's dependable as hell. The crank and bearings were a warranty gift from the dealership when a wrist pin circlip failed 300 miles after the original 80cc kit was installed, as the resulting metal debris damaged the stock crank and bearings. I had a couple of years experience with the basic Minarelli engine before we had the shop modify the engine, and she had a year's experience on that specific scoot before she concluded it needed more power for hills.

My comment about brakes was more focused on rebuilding the entire front end than a bolt on, but again, just keep in mind that folks have safely ridden that machine safely with drum brakes for most of your life.

Get a few thousand miles under your PX belt before jumping in to spend money on mods of any sort. You may be pleasantly surprised at how fine the vehicle is, as built. It's a bit early in your Vespa shifty life to make a shopping list of mods to a scooter you haven't gotten to know yet. Get intimate with the machine before you decide to remake her.

Just some non-judgmental advice.

Al

I've found the front drum brakes on my PX and T5 to be quite adequate if you look after them. The brake on my T5 is a bit too grabby.

Pull the hub off and clean them up once a year and check the cam for wear.

The front drum brake on a P can be made to work well. Pull off the hub and investigate - it might need new brake pads or a new cam (the little thing that turns and pushes the pads against the drum). Make sure your cable is in good condition too. The surface of the brake pads can become smooth and shiny over time - this reduces braking power. Roughing up the pads on some concrete can bring back the desired friction. Also, i believe there are some after-market pads out there that wear out quicker but give better stopping power. Might have been Newfren brand, i could be wrong. Put together, all these little things can make a world of difference.

I've owned two PX200E's; one with a drum front, and one with disc. Both were great, but as far as good looks go, the drum wins hands down!


8)

wangta, i'm curious if yo have ridden a p series yet w/a front disc? just my opinion here;

i've been riding p's for over 25 years. i currently have two. one with a disc, one without. i very much prefer the scooter w/out the front disc. in my opinion, i think the front disc is just too 'touchy' if you know what i mean. i feel, again, my humble opinion, that a p is much safer with drums front and back. maybe it's just what i originally learned w/that makes me feel so much more comfortable the drum break up front.

curious what aviator thinks? (yasou!)

now, something i am interested in, and i don't want to hijack the post, is the rear disk unit that sip sells. i posted for advice/help over at stella speed about this break and i'm curious what rover eric has to say here. they sell both a right-side and left-side version. all that stopping power that the front disc has on the rear is something i find interesting and potentially safer.

by the way, i don't post much, but i like saying 'thanks' each time i do. the info is great and you guys are funny as hell a lot of the time. keep it up!

john

I totally agree with john51. I also have two P's I prefer the drum. If I lived in San Francisco I would probably apreciate the disc more. Both of my P's have Bitubo shocks front and rear. I weigh 225 and these shocks are a major plus.

Interesting to hear. The brakes overall on my scoot don't stop so good- I think I need to do some adjusting, but I have zero tools here so it will have to wait until this winter.

Hey Jon have you ever had to slam on your brake's before?? I was riding in to work one day and had a 82 year old man take a left turn in front of me and I had to stop and I slid about 10 yards then hit his front side. I hope I never get to try the same thing with a disk brake but I always wonder if I had a disc would still hit him???? I was riding about 25-30mph at the time. Who knows I am going to look into the SIP rear disc. I spoke with a guy on the phone who posts on here and has a P200 with a front and rear disc he made a master cylinder that fit by the battery. Sounds pretty bitch. I like the look of the drum better for sure. Just my story--

There is a thread on StellaSpeed right now covering the exact same problem. Here is the thread! If you are not signed up for StellaSpeed, I highly suggest you do as it's pretty much all P-series talk, all the time.

Also, Eric, from what I understand, putting PK fork assemblies in PX's is a pretty common solution to the largeframe P drum brake problems. A quick search of the BBS oughth to confirm that. SIP usually has them in stock, too.

My drum braked Vespa was a 1962 VNB, and I had no complaints. I have driven a drum braked P200E a bit since arriving here, and no qualms with that. The disc on my PX150 requires a little more finesse than either, but it really isn't exactly apples and apples. One gets used to one's brakes with time. Neither system qualifies as unsatisfactory or even poor, and both are fully up to the task.

To be frank, I'd just stick with well maintained stock brakes and use the money for a mod on something else - not even necessarily scooter related.

Al

The drum brakes on my P are crazy sensitive. I think they work a little too well. The bikes are so light they brake pretty easily if the brakes are in good condition. Just my opinion.

My P has NO Problem with its DRUM ROLL.

well I am looking to get shippments in Jan-Feb but I will have 40 sets coming to America all will most will be 16mm fronts maybe 5 of the sets with have 20mm fronts

its the Grimeca kits kinda made in china like all of them and I think I will be selling them at $450 maybe cheaper if customs is not so bad really in america I only wanted to get the 16 mm kits because thats all thats here 77-82 P scooters but I will keep everyone posted