Modern Vespa

I know this has been covered before, but so as to condense all of those threads into one, which one of the LEADER 150 overhaul/upgrade kits is considered best AND can get the speed close to 70 MPH?

Whenever I get my scoot out onto the 2 lane highways, I feel like I just might become somebody's hood ornament. My Fly will do close to 60 according to the speedometer, but that just isn't enough to keep the cagers from riding up my @$$ even when the posted speed limit is 55 MPH.

I guess it would be foolish to be looking for a 200CC engine from a wrecked Vespa?

How can you tell that riding season is drawing to a close? People are wondering about modifications and engine rebuilds and the such!

My take on the numerous posts on this same topic (some started by myself) is that the cylinder kit won't increase your top end, but will help with lower end acceleration and sustained power up hills and such.

Also, by the time you have spent the money on upgrading all the components necessary to increase the top end, you are close to the difference in price with a trade in on a GT or GTS - and for a less reliable scooter to boot.

If there was a magic conversion kit that would give my LX150 more top end speed without sacrificing reliability, I would have done it years ago. Actually, if you learn of one, please let me know).

Good luck in your efforts! I'm hoping that it works out.

The only person I know of who's tried the 200cc in a 150 frame is OopsClunkThud (Patrick). You can PM him to find out the specifics, but IIRC, it's nowhere even *close* to straight-forward.

geezer-

A few years ago, an acquaintance kitted the LEADER 150 on a Derbi Boulevard and spoke well of it. It's worth checking around. Unfortunately, I'm no longer in touch with him or I'd have him contact you.

Al

My LT-150 will top out near 68 mph with my wife riding it.

Get skinny tires....

Isn't that how he got his nickname.

Actually I'm so glad that the cooler weather has finally gotten down here to south Louisiana. Typically our Novembers provide is with low to mid-70s highs and overnight lows in the 40s or 50s. I'm rarin' to go every morning now. During the summers I have to force myself into riding. Thanks.

Well, in fact I was thinking about the BV250 until the recent thread about this machine says that the pet carrier won't even handle a single FF helmet. True, I'd put a top case on it, but...

As for a trade in on a GT or GTS, please allow me to express my personal preference for the look of the Fly. In fact, my local dealer offered me a 2007 GT for not much more than the Fly cost me when I placed my order. At this point though, I'd strongly consider a trade-in. There aren't many Vespas in B.R., though, and the Louisiana Craig's list is a joke.

I have my personal LX equipped with the Malossi 190 kit, SoHo racing cam, malossi variator, scorpion exhaust, and the larger rear tire. I get indicated 70+ mph quite easily. I weigh about 170 lbs.

I'm told the cam does little for performance (it makes it idle really cool though), I don't know if its still available anyways - Malossi makes a cam but I haven't heard from anyone who has it installed. And I question the benefit of the Malossi variator, I think it gave me more oomph in the lower end but being the last mod I did, I think I lost some at the top end (I've also gained some weight). I hear the polini variator is a better compromise of power curve/top end.

Also, scooterwest now has the polini geat kit which should give you more top end.

I wouldn't bother with the clutch because thats really for take off.

LOL.

Part of my problem is that I weigh about as much as you & your wife combined. My scoot is new and has the skinny tires on it. Jess had mentioned that the wider Pilot City tire will get you another 2% in circumference a while back, which would translate into another MPH or two on a level road with a nice tail wind.

Thanks, but as Michael points out, by the time I would have paid for all of this stuff, I could have nearly all I would need for a trade-up to the GT or the BV250. I DID look at the Malossi kit that takes the 150 > 190CC, and wondered about this. How unreliable could this one modification make the 150?

Lay off the gumbo and pralines.

That is the cheapest performance advice you can get.

That was all my acquaintance installed, and as I said, he was pleased with the performance improvement, as he did occasionally ride on the Interstate. Saw him on and off for a year and a half, and no reliability issues.

Al

Thanks Al. I'm far from being an expert, but it seems to me as if the essential difference between Vespa's own 150 and 200 engines is essentially a larger piston. I'll talk to the local dealer about this, and maybe give this a try AFTER my warranty expires.

I had a 190 kit on my ET before I sold it. It was very reliable and will help you get up to 70 mph, but it won't get you up to 70 mph consistently. I was running a malossi variator, the top-end kit and a Ti-Force pipe. All combined had a brilliant effect on torque and mid-range power with only mild improvement in absolute top speed.

As far as I'm concerned, the reliability of the LEADER engine is completely unaffected by the addition of the 190 kit. Its an entirely new cylinder, piston, and head. I've had mine on for 8,000 miles and its still going strong without any issues. I believe Spock, who used to post on here, had 15k or so on his kitted ET4 LEADER.

Malossi variator is certainly a week point, for reliability's sake I would say stick with the stock variator and just put different weights in it.

Geezer - You'll get no complaints from me about the look of the Fly 150 - I hadn't realized that was why you wanted to modify the engine rather than trade up.

I was hoping that Sarah (another mod) would have added her 2 cents. She had a kitted Fly 150 for quite a while before she went over to the dark side. I believe that she was really pleased with the results, but she would be better able to address your question about top end speed.

You may want to send her a pm, or search for kitted and her user-name (sarah).

I have heard of some kitted 150 lasting well, and others not. I believe that, like most activities, it depends on the skill and experience of whomever does the installation. If you decide to go for it (and I'd be interested to know your opinion) I'd ask around the local scooter club and see who does good, reliable work in your area.

Good luck!

I have the 190 kit with Malossi Multivar (9.5g and 14g weights) and Sito+ exhaust on my LX. Over 15K on the odometer; about 5K on the 190 kit.

It'll do 70 indicated (and faster), but it's still not what I would consider a good scooter for the freeway (at least in L.A.). For the 2-lane highways, though, great. I've had no trouble keeping up with larger-CC scoots on rides.

I have a LX150 kitted with Malossi 190cc kit, MultiVar, Delta clutch, Kelvar belt, Sito Plus, scootwest jet, NGK Iridium plug...over a year already and no problem.

Me (165lbs) together with my wife(100lbs) can hit 60mph easy.

Thanks again, Michael. Benito had published a link to Sarah's thread over at the Toronto forum. It appears as if Sarah's thread is largely positive about this.

Fly 190cc Kit - Initial Impressions (Post 172644)

There seems to be some difference of opinion on the importance of OTHER modifications in Sarah's thread, but overall the expectation is that the kit provides an improvement to midrange performance.

Geezer,

I kitted my fly for the same reason you want to. I needed better freeway performance.

Stock, I could get to an indicated 65mph. With the kit, a sito muffler, a new pulley and rollers, and even a carb rejet, the fastest I could get it to go was ~72 indicated. Nowhere near the improvement I sought. I Had a mechanic put it all together for me, so parts and labor cost just under $1600.00.

I liked the weight of the fly, as well as the styling. The biggest performance boost was at the bottom end. It accelerated much better. I was disappointed that I did not gain as much on the top end as I needed.

I'll say from experience, unless you can do the work yourself, save your money. If you need freeway speeds, you really should get a bigger bike.

Thanks to you and Michael for injecting the reality into this. $1600 seems a bit much.

A friend had cautioned me against a 150 CC engine before I bought the Fly, but I must admit that I had no idea that I would feel so threatened by the cagers who zip past me on the two 55 MPH highways near my house. Here I am going near WOT at the posted speed, and 2, 3, sometimes 4 cars will pass me doing 70+ MPH. (The common practice down here is to add 15 MPH to the posted speed limit. Even when I'm in my car, they blow my doors off since I rarely go more than a few MPH over the limit.)

When I bought my LX in April I never thought I would be on interstates..
I want to kit it out but unlike others here I want to be able to maintain my speed.
I want to be able to do a steady 65 MPH hills, wind, or otherwise.
I can maintain 65+ on level ground but give me a hill and speed drops.
Can not trade in on new scoot due to some "modifications the scoot substained due to my stupidity"....
Upgrade is my only real option

The leader motor will never be happy on freeways, but you can do it for a while....

I pimped out an LT150(190,cam,pipe) and one time got 81 indicated on the freeway, which was really more like 72 in reality. With tailwind and drafting cages.

The GTS is made to be on the freeway, and does so well.

If you wanna see a 250 motor in a fly look here..

https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic32700?highlight=

Still a work in progress....but the bike did finish the 2008 Cannonball.

Metric ass load of work thou....

R

8)

There is an upgear kit for the 150s that can increase your top speeds.
Of course, you need the horsepower first.


Check out this thread:

Does Anyone Know The Gear Ratio Of A Stock LX150?



Regards
Harvey

Interesting topic, I wont waste much of your time. My stock LX125 is very competitive with a mates kitted LX. On the flat theres only a couple of bike lengths in it up to 60 mph, top speed identical. I can understand him being pissed off expecting alot more for what he spent.

A LEADER motor gave you a run for your money buddy

The 200 is solid. I think, aside from displacement, the other key is that it's liquid cooled, vs the air cooled 150 leaders.

That shit makes a difference.

I guess that's why Porsche stopped making air-cooled 911s.

I put a wrecked gt200 engine in an ET4 but it took more work then it was worth and well I think the old et4 engine may have been faster off the line

and well with the GT200 engine you have no kick start and that sucks !

but back to the main question get a faster scooter would be the best Idea

Oh yeah i am almost done putting the et4 engine in a crashed up stella body might make for a fun ride still messing with the shock mount

Sorry for bringing this ancient post back to life, but I was curious....
I am interested in a variator kit to increase low end torque on an s150, I want to take off from lights quicker.
but does anyone know if this kit lowers the top speed?
According to scooterwest the melossi kit can give you better accelerationOR increase top speed.

While the common wisdom has always held that lighter weights result in better acceleration at the cost of top speed and heavier weights result in higher top speeds but worse acceleration, some members have reported otherwise. It may take some poking around to find the specific posts, though.

From what I recall, the Multivar with lighter weights will get you off the line quicker without substantial loss of top speed. You will definitely lose some off the line acceleration going with the heavier weights. That said, with 11.5g weights in mine, I have no trouble staying in front of traffic.

Just how light or heavy or which combinations work best for you depend on a lot of other variables. Most people will wind up experimenting a little before finding their preference.

If you're not ready to do a cylinder kit yet, the Multivar with a performance pipe like the Sito+ is a good way to go.

so what kinda price can i expect to pay for a 190 kit and cam to start with. any takers?

motorsport has kits on sale right now for $399
i think a cam will set you back about 200~250

then figure on upgrading the trans stuff too...

and then labor...

so anywhere between 1500 and 2200

best,
-greasy

Over in the Harley world, such mods are usually accompanied by some head modifications, be it porting, new valves, or sometimes a reshaping of the combustion chamber, etc. Are they any folks on the west coast who regularly do a good job at that sort of thing for Vespas, this kit/head in particular?
Thanks

How much would it cost you to sell your current ride and buy another used larger one?

$1,500 to 2000? for a more reliable, faster scooter?

Just a question...

Here we go again...

I think there are a significant number of us who are very enamored of the Vespa 150 chassis (small, light, nimble, etc.) and don't want a bigger, heavier, fat-assed scoot... just a bit faster one. Some of us also enjoy modding ("hot-rodding" in the parlance of my generation) as a rewarding activity in and of itself.

Do you really think we don't already know that it may be cheaper to go to a larger scooter? (and actually -- in my case -- it isn't, because I got such a good deal on my 150, I bought the kit at a deep discount, and I'm doing the work myself)

I'd love a LX 200/210, fuel injected and liquid cooled. That would be a fast and fun scooter. 8)

Well I rode my first LX150 yesterday and I TOTALLY get what you mean. I can't believe that there is only about 80 lbs. difference between the LX and my GTS. My GTS does feel and look a bit fat-arsed don't it? Here I was thinking what a little shard of a motorbike my GTS is, and here the LX is so much more of a "Scooter", you know like a zippy little scooter. Don't get me wrong, the 300 is about all of a motorbike I need. It is a great scoot. But...

...my test drive has me thinking about the Malossi kit upgrade on a previously loved LX150. Now that would be a nice scoot. I am not so concerned about highway travel, as our congested high-speed freeways sometimes scare the heck out of me when I'm in a car. I usually find an alternate route.

Is there an upgrade for the head as well? I have seen some stuff about a cam, but I gotta think that some porting and bigger valves are really needed after a 33% increase in displacement!

As far as fuel injection and water cooling goes, let us remember that most of the impressive performance increases in sportbikes during their ascendence was with engines that were carb'ed and air-cooled. mmmHmm.

i would put in 11.5 gram Dr. Pully sliders, i put them on my S and it kept the accleration about the same up to 35mph and then went noticabbly faster and gave me a top speed of 5mph quicker. i would suggest this first, or go lighter for more accleration.

I also am wondering about Malossi variator being a week point. as stated. it really is not a good idea to upgrade to? anyone know if it really improves accleration or top end? i am also wondering how it is not reliable? anyone had a problem with it?

With a stock engine? You must be a really light guy. I'd think you'd want to go a little lighter than the stock rollers. 11.5g sounds in the ballpark for me for a kitted Leader 150, though.

ya, i am 5' 7" and 130lbs, so my rollars are just fine the way they are, scoot tops out at 79mph, idk how but it does, according to gps.