Modern Vespa

Hi all,

I won't bore you all with the details but I need to install a manual flasher relay in my ET4 125cc as the ECU which normally provides a pulse to the indicator switch is faulty.

Can anyone tell me exactly what type of flasher relay I should buy.

Many thanks
Darren

Please guys, could really do with some input here.

Thanks
Darren

I assume you're not in usa since you have a 125, but

older cars have a 2 terminal turn signal flasher which should be available at any auto parts store (or whatever they're called in English English). One terminal should be hot (you'll need a wiring schematic with flasher), the other goes to load; ie, the hot terminal should be connected to a power source that is on with the key on and the load terminal should go to the t/s switch (the wire going from the ecu to the switch should be disconnected from the ecu and reconnected to the load terminal of the t/s flasher).

R u sure your ecu is bad? A wiring problem in the t/s system could be fooling you.

Thanks Joel for the reply. Doesn't it need an earth ?

The only flasher I can recommend is snapshot05. He's gotten really good at it now.

Halfords have loads of flasher relays - but I think they all need latching switches to actuate them. I believe the ET4 has a momentary switch, so that would have to be changed. The MP3's and GP800 have latching switches - you may be able to 'bodge' one of those in place.

Otherwise you'll have to do some electronic design...

There is a 3 terminal model that may require a ground. I believe the 2 terminal model will ground through your lamps. I don't think I have any old car wiring diagrams around anymore...see if you can pick the brain of someone at the parts store.

jimc: Just checked my et wiring diagram...ecu to switch to lamp to ground. I can't imagine how a momentary switch would function.

Oh yeah..translation...ground=earth

I intend to wire the flasher unit so that when the ignition is on the unit is constantly delivering a pulse to the switch. Basically replacing the function of the ECU. I realise that the flasher unit may burn out in a few months but its a much cheaper alternative to replacing the ECU !

Would a 25w model be okay ?

Cheers
Darren

yes

yes

OK, that sounds good. I haven't yet found a decent ET4 diagram, so was making assumptions from all the other diagrams.

Thanks everyone for their replies. Sorry to be a pest but can anyone point me to something suitable on eBay so I know what to look for in the auto store?

Thanks
Darren

PS...Yes, it's raining in London

RFL1 or RFL3 from here:
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/relays/flashers.php

Thanks. Looks ideal the RFL3

I assume on the pins, 49 goes to permanent 12v when ignition is on, 31 to an earth / ground and 49a to the indicator switch ?

Cheers
Darren

That's what that site suggests, yes.

Thanks Jim!

I'm at my wits end now. I bought and install the RFL3 electronic flasher unit. I soldered into the orange and black wires from the ECU and connected the output of the flasher directly to the black / white wire (which I cut) and all appeared well until I went out to fill her up. The flashers worked for about 3 mins then packed up again!

I can only assume that either the earth or the orange (power) wire is faulty but how can the ECU work if the power or earth is temperamental ?

I can't locate a wiring diagram from my UK ET4 125 and the only thing I've gone by is the ET4 150 (USA) version.

Any ideas as to what to try next?

Thanks
Darren

Also, forgot to mention, engine idle seems to have increased to the point of having to pull full rear brake to stop the wheel when its on its stand. Not sure if this is relevant to the issue.

Darren

If the relay was made in North America, you may need an earth-to-ground converter.

The new flasher unit might be faulty, the switch might be faulty, OR you could have a short or something in one of the flasher light circuits which maybe even caused the original fault.

The fast idling would seem unconnected to the flasher, though maybe not to having worked on the bike - something may have been disturbed.

Thanks for the replies.

Basically I have replaced the indicator switch and battery so can eliminate them from the problem. As before when at idle the indicators work perfectly, it's only when pulling away do they stop.

I'm no electrical engineer but I can only think that for some reason the indicator relay that I bought fails to either get a ground or power. Having no idea where the orange wire that I've soldered into comes from and having no UK circuit diagram to look at I'm stumped.

To re-cap: My scooter was recently full serviced and the mechanics checked the stator and voltage regulator which were all fine. The only suggestion they came up with is to replace the ECU which is very expensive.

Any other ideas?
Darren

Ah, that is clearer. It sounds like you haven't connected either the 12V connection or the 0V one (or both) to the right places. Try the headlight feed for the +12V, and a good connection to the frame for the 0V.

Thanks Jim.

I did test the orange wire going into the ECU for 12v with ignition on and it was correct. Did the same for the black cable (to ground on battery). If the orange wire was wrong wouldn't the flasher unit fail to work period and not only on engine idle?

Having no wire diagram makes it very hard. I guess I'm lucky that the ET4 150 USA model diagram has the same white/black wire as I could have cut the wrong one!

Should I still change it to the headlamp?

Thanks
Darren

No - I'm pretty sure the looms are the same for the UK and US models, and the part-wiring diagram (UK!) that I could find also shows the orange wire as the ignition-conrolled 12V feed and the black as the ground.

Page 6 here: http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/useful%20info/Info_manual_2.pdf

Hmm... How did you break into the orange and black wires, by cutting and soldering or with those awful blue 'Scotch' connectors? If the latter do the former...
Bad earth for the indicators?
Dodgy lamp-holders in the indicators, maybe corroded?

Clutching at straws here.

Jim,

I bared some insulation with a sharp knife, wrapped some wire and soldered. I then wrapped insulation tape. I'm quite handy with a soldering iron and know there are no dry joints or shorts on my work at least!

Would a bad earth or dodgy lamp holders exhibit the same problem? I could understand one lamp not working but to stop the lot when pulling away?

Cheers
Darren

That's why I said it was clutching at straws - it's unlikely that *all* indicators would have dodgy connections that all intermittently fail at the same time!

You'll just have to get a meter out and see what's happening.

Jim,

I can't believe what I've done.

I've cut the white/black wire from the ECU and wired the output of the flasher unit to the indicator switch. I should have cut the blue / black wire!!!!!

The white/black wire goes to the choke (thanks to your PDF diagram)....

What do I do now.....???

Darren

Aha, that makes total sense. Just restore the white/black one and connect the flasher to the blue/black.

If you had cut really close to the CDI connector you'll have to do some delicate soldering.

okay, I've reconnected the white / black wire and cut the blue / black one. I've soldered the output of the flasher unit to the blue/black wire and when I use the indicator switch it all works and I can hear the flasher unit (which i didn't before!). I'm a little surprised that the flasher unit isn't always clicking as the orange 12v line is going to its feed, etc. Am I mad?

The flasher unit flash-rate is load related. With a low resistance (two bulbs) it flashes at the correct rate, if one bulb blows it will flash twice as fast on purpose to warn you. With no load it won't flash at all.

You should notice your idling is back to normal too.

Hi,

After fitting a flasher relay all has been well for a couple of weeks until my headlamp blew again. This is after it had been replaced a week beforehand!

This cannot be normal.

Any ideas?

Darren

Check your charging voltage with the engine running. Anything over about 15 volts is overcharging and may be causing all sorts of problems,

Thanks Joel for the reply. What and where do I test it?

Take (buy) your multimeter, use the volt setting and place the red probe on the + batt terminal and the black probe on earth side. Start scooter, actually, you could do this first. Voltage should be between 13-14.2. You could also check directly at the headlamp...disconnect, insert red probe into connector, other side to ground. Don't worry about mixing them up, if you get backwards, voltmeter will just read backwards.

Also, rev up scooter to see if voltage exceeds 14.2 at higher rpm's. An assistant is recommended as scooter may tend to vibrate across the floor...be careful.

This shouldn't be your problem, however, as you said your shop checked the stator and regulator, and this is basically what you're doing. Can't imagine what else might be causing your headlamp issue, though.

Thanks!

What should i do if the voltage is over 15 volts?

Darren

Replace the regulator and perhaps the battery as well!

The regulator should not give out more than 14.6V or thereabouts. This is sometimes hard to test for because the battery itself acts as a regulator and won't show a higher voltage than 14.6 volts until it is very close to fully charged. In the mean time too much charge current is put into the battery and if it is a wet battery gasses away merrily. This can be spotted if it needs to be topped up regularly. In a 'perfect' system the battery should rarely, if ever, need topping up.

However, new headlight lamps can blow all by themselves, not every one is perfect out of the package, it may perhaps have been dropped before sale or fitting. Just the same as household lamps.

Check! Also, DO NOT TOUCH the glass portion of the headlight bulbs during replacement.