Modern Vespa

Just got the PM68 "race" pipe fitted up to my GTS. The first thing you would notice is how awesome it sounds at idle. Really, really, really good.
Then you blip the throttle and it totally sounds great, and not too terribly loud. Then you open it up at a stoplight and it gets INCREDIBLY loud. Like , even with a FF helmet on loud. Wow. it must me sick loud behind me.
I havent swapped anything else out yet, but I just wanted to let anyone else know that is looking at getting the PM tuning pipe stateside:
1. it is expensive.
2. it is really loud.
3. it is a 2 piece design all the way from the motor, via the header, to the canister. No downtube BS to deal with, no gasket BS to deal with. One pipe, into the canister. thats it.
4. It is expensive.
5. You have to order it from S.I.P. in germany as PM can not deal directly with the US due to liability issues of some sort.
6. It is loud, and expensive.
7. It is really, really well made
8. it is really loud.

I had a Prima pipe on my Derbi Blvd 150,
Now that was loud, I bought it from ScooterWorks.

Come to think of it, the Leo Vince pipe on my GTV is REALLY loud

But I got it for a REALLY good price

I would like to hear some comparisons with a PM68 with the decibel killer fitted. It is supposed to give a little more power too, and I thought it was coming as standard on new PM68s

Mike

JH---good review.

How much did you pay in shipping?

Correct to say the euro to $ conversion is "double"?

My PM62 was crazy loud, too when I first got it. I thought it was cool for a while, but it got to be so loud as to become a fatigue factor on long rides, even with my full face helmet on. With my half helmet, it was unbearable.

(It should be noted that at NO TIME did this loudness stop me from blasting off from stop lights - I did this every time).

Last summer I cracked it open and found all the baffle material had disintegrated. Moto Amore sold me new baffle material and I cut up a curved chunk of electrical conduit to mitigate the concussive nature of the can. Now it's still loud and grumbly but not stoopid loud like before. There is a device called a decibel killer that is available in the UK for the PM68, if you're interested. I made my own.

I rode behind someone with a PM for over an hour in July and my ears are still ringing.

since all the talk about mufflers... quick question? my friends want to know what my LX150 would sound like with out the muffler. if i fired it up without the muffler for a bit will it hurt anything or what?

Dude, I warned you.

I actually dont' like the sound of the PM68, sounds like an annoying motard. Spew. I don't like that sort of sound. The Leo Vince has more of a growl, the 68 is a popping sound. Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa.

*shrug* different strokes though.

I agree that the design's better, with the lack of an intermediate tube.

Yeah, that was the primary reason. Better design. The leo V has a great exhaust note, but it isnt the right length harmonically, and the PM clearly addresses that with its tuba-esque header for proper length. The sound of it is cool unless you are wide open, and then it gets a little mo-tard-ish, as you called it perfectly. Like a motard and a leaf blower had an even mo'tarded offspring.
I am digging it, for now.I will prbably break this motor in the next 4 months anyway with all the crap I have going on with it...
WHat happened to the super secret yahoo group invite patrick? Jess? Glasseye? O.Z?

it ain't a secret if you keep talkin' about it!!!!

Anyway, yeah, it is interesting how they fix the header tube length on the PM.

I will say this - I'm not sure harmonics play as big of a role in 4 strokes as they do 2 strokes. As I understand it, it still plays a role, but not quite as much as timing back pressure, etc, does on 2T.

But then again I don't know shit about shit.

I heard you got some killer motor mods for the same price as well.

Definition of loud from a former HD slave:

"Able to set off car alarms in a single pass." 8)

Now I don't care who yea are, "THAT'S LOUD"

it would sound very loud and obnoxious.

operating a motor without an exhaust runs the risk of burning an exhaust valve.

best,
-greasy

It wasnt actually "free" as I watched a couple thousand miles roll by at WOT all the way from lee vining, CA to Ocean city, MD on that GTV.
That motor really is awesome though. My new '09 GTS motor just doesnt even hold a candle (yet) to the '07 motor I put in the boboGTV.
Bobo, I bet that LeoV sounds loud with the cracked downtube...

My LV is getting fairly loud, though I think it has hit the outer limit. You and I have both checked for cracks and exhaust leaks, so it must simply be broken in, eh?

The PM is a really cool sounding pipe (and really sharp looking), I remember Ryan's on his long-gone GT60, but I felt like I couldn't pull one off. I knew that I'd have to admire it from the safety of my own scoot and the cool kids rock the PM. Even the broken-in LV is starting to make me a tad self-conscious. Wotta wimp!

Bonkers... how long would you consider the LV pipe to be 'broken in'? How can the 4Road be made louder??? Anyone?

Even Jess's brown LV wasnt as loud as the PM at the end of the CBR.
I didnt think the PM would be louder than that, but it is.
At idle it really, seriously sounds awesome though.
It isnt so bad at 80mph, either. Its all the in between stuff that it is a bit much... I was just blasting down 7th avenue today, through times square, and it really actually helped. Loud pipes save lives . In this case, it was the pedestrians that usually step out in front of me with the stock exhaust fitted. they actually heard me coming. Even the tourists in times square didnt step right in front of me for once...

I'll bet you it's still pretty bad at 80mph, you just can't tell because there's too much wind noise

ew, brown LV

On the LV pipe the " end" of the pipe unbolts,I believe. Just two screws, remove db killer and ride.
If this link works have a look at the end of the pipe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5gdQytnmT8

cheers

One caution:
I have been told that it would be really, really loud; maybe louder than you would like and might, I don't know for sure since I didn't do it, be hard to put back together should you change your mind.

rockmon!:
My break-in took about 2 months, I think. At any rate I think it has been as loud as it is for about 2-3 weeks. It is loud from a dead stop, between buildings with narrow streets and around corners where the sound bounces of buildings, cars and whatnot. I have even tickled a few car alarms (I know: I was surprised too) It still has a nice, friendly purr when cruising and a fun 'blatt!' when goosing the throttle in order to squirt between cars or out of the way of inattentive cagers, etc. Loud on the freeway? Might be, but who can tell with 60-70mph winds in your ears?

Therein lies the comedy gold, my friend...

Yeah, I dont give a crap if it is loud on the highway, but when I am making little kids cry at the intersections in little italy? yeah, its not that cool...

Agree - drivers can hear you are there (pedestrians not such a problem for me). Occasionally I get guilty about disturbing the neighbours, but I am Catholic so I recover from guilt easily. I thought about the silencer when I moved to a quieter street. Then didn't anymore.

Hey,

I just got the PM pipe on my GTS 300. And this weekend when I was driving with my girl, on some occasions the pipe touched the white body plastic.

Is there anything I could do to fix it?

Many thanks.

Did you use the "spacers" that they provided? (2 small cylindrical spacers)

The spacers only should make it a non issue with respect to the pipe touching anything...

I don't know, dealer did everything for me, he changed the exhaust. Does from the picture look like these spacers were not used? oh.. have little idea..

make sure you have the shocks on the hardest setting

yeah, they are, and feel still a bit too soft for me.

Does from the picture exhaust looks like it should look properly fixed or is it to high up...?

I have a problem trusting dealers.. bad experience

I have the Jettin (who is super MIA with some parts for me..grrr...) bushings and the shocks set with the most preload. They are stock shocks. The front is a bitubo. I havent had any issues with the pipe meeting the body. I have had issues with the pipe meeting the road, though. Just the spring clippy mount thingy tagged something in a corner.
Get heavier duty springs if you weigh enough to bottom it out.

My question for those who have used the PM pipe....
Is there a significant improvement in performance? An improvement worth the money you spent?

in a word NO it does make a cool sound if you like that sort of thing. When I first put mine on I thought it was great but if you do any distance or have neighbours it starts to wear on you and I was greatful to be back to a nice quiet scoot.

Snakebite and Joel, do your PM pipes have the Decibel Killer fitted?

I had a PM pipe on my GT200,m and found it too loud. When I pulled it open I found there was no wadding inside! I fitted some, and it sounded much better.

I prefer the noise of a PM to the standard pipe which sounds as if it is trying to clear its throut - Aarrrgh! But I would like the PM a little quieter.

MIke

[quote="Mike Holland"]Snakebite and Joel, do your PM pipes have the Decibel Killer fitted?

No decibel killer, when I first heard a pm pipe on another ET I droulled over it, loved and didn't care about the cost. I had it on for about 4 years and slowly it wore on me,found myself idling in and out of home. Just before selling the bike I removed it and decided to sell it seperatly I really enjoyed riding around in silence.I do understand how you can love the sound though especially when you first get it.

I throughly dislike loud pipes..!
I found them to be more tiring (seriously; noise pollution will tire you out much quicker,)
when riding my bike that was once equippped with such pipes.
In fact so much so that I took them off and went back to the stockers...!

And when riding in a group it is EXTREMELY annoying to be stuck behind someone with ~loud~ pipes!
-When it happens I break formation and either drop behind or ride around in front of such annoyingly
equipped scoots, in order to place myself in a less distracting (and thereby safer) and more enjoyable position in the group! 8)

Not even close...more like 1.25:1

My 2009 PM for GTS 300 blew apart, that DB killer came off while driving.

I got my pipe replaced under warranty. Now my second PM pipe is broken again, that rear end (db killer) is loose and makes weird noises.

Is it me unlucky or PM is not that good? What should I do now...?

Looks ok to me. Mine hits the body work very occasiaonally when 2's up. As Maver said shocks on stiffest setting helps.

something is wrong............................

we have so many folks in thr UK with PM68's on their GTs's,250's 300's original PM's and the newer one's with the decibel killer fitter, some run with it in others's don't bother.......

you're the only person i've heard of have the end blow out and it's happened to you TWICE

i have heard of one or two coming loose because folk have used aluminium rivets after repacking rather than stainless rivets. one bloke was carrying a rivet gun and rivets until we put him onto the stainless rivets.

if it would happen, that I would not get a new pipe, would my local dealer be able to fix it or do I need exhaust specialist? What is more, i read comments about the wrong fuel/air mixture listed as the reasons for the exhaust failure, but I would not know how to adjust it and I never found a dealer who would be enthusiastic or willing to help me..

just sounds to me like soft rivets vibrating so the harder stainless of the pipe cuts thru them and the end blows out.......

scrape the rivet heads, if you can mark them easily they're aluminium, if you can't they're stainless