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THANKS for the tech info section. In the last few weeks I've had major frustration with my 2006 GT not starting and up until very recently, the dealer was of absolutely no help. The tech article "ET/GT/LX: Hard Starting, Rough Idle, or Stalling" saved my butt. Disconnecting the evap hose from the carb seems to have solved the problem.

Anybody want to vent about Vespa of California, Inc.?
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fxkid,

Sorry to hear about your troubles I hope to resolve any problems that you may have with your scooter in the past as well as the future. See you at the shop on Wednesday. Glad to hear you are liking the forum. I wonder who recommended it to you Ciao


Happy Scootering,
Sean Needham
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Sean,

Thanks again.
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Where's the evap hose?
Well Just yesterday, i had a starting problem too. I had to hold full throttle and the left brake when starting. It started, ran rough and stalled after putt putting and than it died. It started again, and than it died again when I gave it throttle. after 45 minutes It fianally started and ran normally. I was able to drive it home from work (11 miles). I'm in Los Angeles and it was much cooler in the morning where my GT ran fine. I don't understand why this happened. Last week I was parking and I remember it stalled a few times after I started it, but not like yesterday. I get premium gas at "76" the same station all the time and never had this problem. I posted the rest in a new topic on reliability concerns. Thanks for your time.
Regards and safe scooting,
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FireLeo,

Read the article:

ET/GT/LX: Hard Starting, Rough Idle, or Stalling

There are pictures indicating where to find the evaporation hose and how to disconnect the stupid thing... BTW, this hose keeps fumes from your fuel tank from reaching the atmosphere. Disconnecting it will have no effect on the performance of your bike...except that it might run more consistently.
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Thanks fxkid,

I read the article, but of course the bike is running flawlwssly again (knock on wood). I'm going to wait another 600 miles and hve everything checked out at my 4000 mile service.

Regards,

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FireLeo,

My scooter has also been running flawlessly...with the hose disconnected.

For future reference, after I removed the evaporation hose from the carburator I took the metal clamp off the end and used it to stretch a small square of cloth (like t-shirt material) over the end of another small length of rubber fuel line hose. I attached this new hose to the carb where the old one was. Voila, no dirt in the carb.
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Hard starting 2003 GT
We have had a few really rainy days lately - a typical start to a NZ summer, (wet, 25 degrees C and over 90% humidity) so I had missed a few days riding the GT to work. It has been getting progressively more difficult to start.
I thought I would check out this thread and follow up the fuel line thing. Much to my surprise the line in question is only a small length (50mm or 2") of tube with a 90 degree elbow.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Nothing like the tube described in the previous thread link and photos.
This photo shows the tube in question (unmodified) which maybe a good model for those contemplating the mod to their carby.

Maybe the 2003 GT didn't have the same level of emission control or maybe this is an Asia/Oz/Kiwi spec where the emission regs aren't so tough.

Anyway, I decided to clean the air filter and spark plug (my dear old Dad always said start there). The air filter was pretty grotty and I cleaned it as per the handbook. By the way the GT is at 9000Kms.

All is well so far, she seems to be starting better and running smoother. Maybe keeping to the basics (air/fuel/spark) is the way to go.
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Thanks Boulty. Great to see how Piaggio equips those carbs in the rest of the world! Any idea what the part number is on that?
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Does parking the GT on its side stand make a difference to how easily it starts....just a thought as mine tends to hit it first time on the centre stand?
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Part number and side stand parking
Thanks for the comments guys.

Sorry no marks on the small tube and I only have a US manual, but it definitely shows the part in a photo on Page 192 "Removing the Kehin CVK30 Carburetor".

I do park my GT on the side stand so I may try the centre stand for a while to see if it makes a difference.
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Re: Hard starting 2003 GT
Boulty wrote:
We have had a few really rainy days lately - a typical start to a NZ summer, (wet, 25 degrees C and over 90% humidity) so I had missed a few days riding the GT to work. It has been getting progressively more difficult to start.
I thought I would check out this thread and follow up the fuel line thing. Much to my surprise the line in question is only a small length (50mm or 2") of tube with a 90 degree elbow.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Nothing like the tube described in the previous thread link and photos.
This photo shows the tube in question (unmodified) which maybe a good model for those contemplating the mod to their carby.

Maybe the 2003 GT didn't have the same level of emission control or maybe this is an Asia/Oz/Kiwi spec where the emission regs aren't so tough.

Anyway, I decided to clean the air filter and spark plug (my dear old Dad always said start there). The air filter was pretty grotty and I cleaned it as per the handbook. By the way the GT is at 9000Kms.

All is well so far, she seems to be starting better and running smoother. Maybe keeping to the basics (air/fuel/spark) is the way to go.
so is that what that was? i found that piece lying underneath my 2004gt usa and couldn't figure out where it fell off of. ended up losing it in the garage somewhere. you know...i put it somewhere for safe keeping.
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Ok. this is an older post, but hey, maintaince tips never go out. My 06 GT seemed to have developed the hard start; stalling senario. I just hit 600 miles and went for a ride yesteday; 50's in Denver. Anyway, it was off for about 20 minutes and when I went to restart, the damn thing just kept stalling. I had to hold the gas for about a block before it seemed to remedy itself. It was fine until I stopped at home. I cleaned the filter, not too bad looking, but that didn't help because it did it again today, but only if it was shut down for more than 10 minutes or so. I looked at the diagram for the emissions hose. I did fill the Vespa quite high the last fill up when the pump didn't click off. I have the emissons hose off now and will leave it off overnight. I did take it off briefly yesterday but didn't see and fuel run out. Sound familair? Maybe a trip to the dealer Tuesday? It's still under warranty and the 600 mile is due. I have to be honest though, I'm disappointed in the dependiblity factor at this point. Less than 600 miles and I'm having problems?
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Re: Hard starting 2003 GT
Boulty wrote:
We have had a few really rainy days lately - a typical start to a NZ summer, (wet, 25 degrees C and over 90% humidity) so I had missed a few days riding the GT to work. It has been getting progressively more difficult to start.
I thought I would check out this thread and follow up the fuel line thing. Much to my surprise the line in question is only a small length (50mm or 2") of tube with a 90 degree elbow.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Nothing like the tube described in the previous thread link and photos.
This photo shows the tube in question (unmodified) which maybe a good model for those contemplating the mod to their carby.

Maybe the 2003 GT didn't have the same level of emission control or maybe this is an Asia/Oz/Kiwi spec where the emission regs aren't so tough.

Anyway, I decided to clean the air filter and spark plug (my dear old Dad always said start there). The air filter was pretty grotty and I cleaned it as per the handbook. By the way the GT is at 9000Kms.

All is well so far, she seems to be starting better and running smoother. Maybe keeping to the basics (air/fuel/spark) is the way to go.
I have a 2005 UK spec GT125 and it has the short 90 degree pipe shown, as does a colleague's bike that is a year older. The evaporation pipe may be a US only thing.
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wasp wrote:
I did fill the Vespa quite high the last fill up when the pump didn't click off. I have the emissons hose off now and will leave it off overnight.
I'm not a mechanic, but I'd look at over-filling as the first potential problem. I wouldn't recommend disconnecting any hoses.

If you get fuel up in the filler neck (*major* over-fill) it's important to ride at least 5 miles (more if possible) at 40+ MPH right away to burn it off and prevent the evap system from sucking it into the canister. After stopping, avoid hot re-starts in less than an hour. The tank needs cool off or you'll get hard starting/stalling. The problem can be much worse on hot days or when parked in the sun.

Me & a few of my friends have experienced it with our GTs. Usually the mistake was to fill up very high, ride for a few minutes, then stop. A *major* over-fill will cause the problem even in cool weather or if the bike is allowed to cool down overnight. A *minor* over-fill will usually only cause problems if you start it hot right after the fill because short stops cause maximum heating/expansion of the fuel which can aggravate an otherwise *minor* over-fill.

The cure? Careful fill ups. But pumps are quirky and you're bound to over fill now & then so if you do then try to burn some off on a long ride (which would be fun anyway) and avoid short stops and hot starts just after the fill.
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That does seem to discribe the situation. Dang King Soopers Pump! I did ride it from 56/Tower downtown. Stopped at Mod Livin on Colfax and started/stalled. Rode it around the block gunned and seemed fine until I stopped again. The fuel light is on now, so that whole tank is nearly done. Thought things were fine, but yesterday, riding for an hour or so, it happened again when I got home. Left it in the garage for about 30 minutes and wouldn't stay running when I went to go back out. I'll try to get it to Erico this week. Bummed since the days are so warm now and I'm having problems.
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I myself went for a long ride yesterday (Christmas Day) while the roast was in the oven. From my house near the Botanic Gardens, out east through Lowry and beyond to 6th & I-225, then back via Smith Road toward Stapleton, down Colfax (right past Mod Livin actually) and home. I wonder if that guy on the green GT going north on Quebec was you. In any event, based on what you're saying I'd take it to Erico right away. There are six or seven us with GTs who ride regularly, and I've not heard of the problem hanging on. It's usually the result of an over fill and one good, long ride gets rid of it. Best of luck
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That was me and I did see you on Quebec! Dang what a small world. It was awesome seeing another one! The ride was awesome too of course!
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If you get fuel up in the filler neck (*major* over-fill) it's important to ride at least 5 miles (more if possible) at 40+ MPH right away to burn it off and prevent the evap system from sucking it into the canister. After stopping, avoid hot re-starts in less than an hour. The tank needs cool off or you'll get hard starting/stalling. The problem can be much worse on hot days or when parked in the sun.

Me & a few of my friends have experienced it with our GTs. Usually the mistake was to fill up very high, ride for a few minutes, then stop. A *major* over-fill will cause the problem even in cool weather or if the bike is allowed to cool down overnight. A *minor* over-fill will usually only cause problems if you start it hot right after the fill because short stops cause maximum heating/expansion of the fuel which can aggravate an otherwise *minor* over-fill.

The cure? Careful fill ups. But pumps are quirky and you're bound to over fill now & then so if you do then try to burn some off on a long ride (which would be fun anyway) and avoid short stops and hot starts just after the fill.


Or... you could just remove the evap hose. I've had mine off for about 800 miles and my GT runs great. Other than fuel vapors escaping into the atmosphere, why would you leave it connected?? Especially when it apparently solves reliability issues.

Just wondering...[/quote]
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fxkid wrote:
Or... you could just remove the evap hose. I've had mine off for about 800 miles and my GT runs great. Other than fuel vapors escaping into the atmosphere, why would you leave it connected?? Especially when it apparently solves reliability issues.

Just wondering...
The primary concern for me is "...fuel vapors escaping into the atmosphere...".

It was a personal choice. The hose-removal solution works fine and we discussed it (me & the mechanic) back in early '04. But the problem is really caused by over-filling, not the evap system. So I decided to not over-fill the tank. Either one of these choices works, but I figured I could just adapt my behavior to the scooter rather than modify the scooter. To each his own!

There's a lot of smog in Denver and gasoline evaporative emissions are a big component of smog. I'm sort of a closet environmentalist (don't tell anyone!) and drive a Toyota Prius, ride a low-emission scooter, blah blah blah.

So to answer your question about why I don't disconnect the hose, I guess it's because I'm a greenie weenie eco-terrorist geek tree hugging .
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I did disconnect my evap hose when I had the starting stalling problem and scoot runs fine.

I would like to reconnect it, but everytime I do she won't start or sputters and stalls. How long does it take to dry out the canister or is there something I can do to help it? I haven't ridden long miles since the problem started, but have run the scoot short trips and left it to idle a bit.
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I took it to the dealer and they "removed the hose". I'm not sure if they removed it from the canister also, but they did say the charcoal canister was disconnected. I did disconnect the hose overnight prior to taking it to he dealer and the problem returned. Leaving it disconnected and all seems fine now. I do smell some gas fumes in the garage now that I didn't prior. The dealer told me that it is a problem with the GT's. My concern is; if this is a problem that has persisted since 03, mine's a 06, why hasn't piaggio established a fix for this malfunction. Disconnecting a hose might be easy, but there's a design flaw somewhere that should be addressed. Either a redesigned fuel filler neck or a redesigned canister. Why isn't Piaggio being held accountable for the problem? Yes, the hose is disconnected, but I have to wonder if I should insist that the dealer replace the canister. This is a warranthy issue regardless. How long does it take for the canister to "dry out" once it's been overfilled?
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the canister takes about 2 weeks to dry out or you can romove and use compressed air to dry out quicker. This canister is in place to catch escaping gas or vapors so that they are not released into the open air. There are 2 hose from the canister that go back into the motor to burn off these gas. One is located on your carb and the other is located at the carb manifold with a one way valve. There is some info on the technical thread on this forum about removing a hose which in some states would be ok and other such as California are not. It is hard to say if warranty would cover this problem because most shops are not suppose to remove any of the hoses or the EPA can issue a fine for such removal. Also I have seen customers over fill there gas tanks and this causes a problem with hard starting, rough idling issue. On some of the vintage scooter and motorcycles they would have a small hole on the gas tank lid which would allow these gases to escape and also allow the tank to vent a little. So to have a bike or scooter smelling up the garage a little would be normal. What a lovely smell it is too. I need to get a 2 stoke again. 8) .


Happy Scootering and Happy New Year,
Sean
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Here is an example of an ET/LX/LT/FLY/GT/.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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Well it is running great. But, there's always a "but". I went and filled it up today trying to be so careful. It seemed to be taking a bit so glaced at the pump for all of 2 freekin seconds and the next thing I notice is gas running all over the place. No click. No nothing. AND I WAS PUMPING SLOW BY JUST BARELY HOLDING THE NOZZLE! After I cleaned the mess up, including all that puddled into the underseat case and the side of the GT, I stuck a rag in the gas filler just to get out some excess. What a pain in tha ass just to fill a freekin gas tank. I'm not thinking this is a warranty problem, I thinking this is a "RECALL" issue. That damn thing just doesn't click off for me! With so many problems with this canister and fuel neck,maybe it should be reported to........... who? I'm frustrated to say the least. Love the Vespa but this is absurd!

On another note, now that I've probably got at least another 2 weeks for cansister to dry out, what if you drilled a small hole in the plastic gas cap? Would that help?
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So I got to thinking about this evap hose and the problem it causes when fuel gets into it from over filling. I haven't looked at how it's routed or where it goes, but what if you could route the hose up from the filler neck before going down to the cannister? Liquid can't run uphill, thereby keeping the hose and cannister dry.
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wasp wrote:
After I cleaned the mess up, including all that puddled into the underseat case and the side of the GT
A trick I learned from NapaCoach: Remove the whole underseat bucket when you gas up. Saves you from getting gas all over your "other" riding gear.
wasp wrote:
I'm not thinking this is a warranty problem, I thinking this is a "RECALL" issue. That damn thing just doesn't click off for me!
The click-off is a function of the fuel nozzle itself, so the real issue is that the fuel nozzles meant for cars don't work well in our scooters.
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Overfilling!
I have been removing the underseat bucket for a long time. The time I had the puddle on my cheap-o rainsuit a lightbulb went on. Only now have to be careful not to get the gas onto a hot engine!
I was looking at a couple of maxi scoots and noticet the gas is on the floor area. Wonder why this could not have been done on the Vespa? Room issue or other? At least with those gas fill areas an over fill does not get on gear, or engine, Beale.
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I filled mine up yesterday in anticipation of our big New Year's Day ride. Thinking about what I've been reading here, I realized that it DOES take some concentration. It's a pain in the ass, to honest, and I can see why some people get frustrated with it.

*You should remove the bucket to be safe in case it spews
*If it's empty, pump about 2 gals fast then slow down
*Or you can just pump 1 1/2 or 2 gallons and stop

I've experienced all these things. Crying or Very sad emoticon
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Food for thought:

Since I've removed my evap hose, I haven't had one problem with hard starting or reliability... I've also never had to remove the underseat storage compartment or peer into the fuel filler neck to tell when the tank is full. I also let the pump go full blast until it shots off automatically and I've never had fuel fly up into my face or all over my stuff...

I'm kind of an environmentalist/conservationist too and I've never measured it myself, but I'd be willing to bet that the amount of fuel vapor that escapes into the atmosphere from my 2.5 gallon tank on my GT (with the evap hose disconnected) is extremely minimal. (Probably even less than what escapes from a Prius).

It seems like more of an engineering defect anyway, doesn't it?
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