Modern Vespa

This may seem odd to most people but is it possible to move the foot break on the right foot to the left side?
The reason I ask is because I have a prosthetic leg on my right side. I drive a car and use that foot to gas because acceleration takes no finesse, but breaking is a whole different story.
So in the end is it possible (or even necessary)?

I don't see why not, and depending on the model it may be more or less difficult.

It's not just going to "move" over to the other side.

You'd almost be best served to use motorcycle parts or have someone fab you up something. Brake pedals are cast, and polar...such that they are specifically meant to sit on the right. You would have to make a mirror image of one for the left side ( cast ) ... or have someone CNC mill or weld you one for the left.

The rest is gravy. For all models except the P-series and smallframe it's just a lever pivoting on post that's welded to the center channel. A bicycle cable runs from the pedal back to the brake cam.

The P-series and smallframe are a bit more complex.

look at these guys that make choppers out of lambrettas and p-series. They have to fab up weird brakepedal contraptions because they eliminate the key brakepedal assemblies in the process, typically.

Anything is possible. Good luck to you.

Do you think this is something you can finesse with practice? I just think if you ever get another ride, you'll run into the same problem. I kinda know what you mean, though. When I broke my right leg, I had to use my left to gas and brake my cage. Not an easy thing to do, but I got better as I continued to drive. If this is a viable option, just practice out of harms way until you get the hang of it.

Ride safe,

I'm making the great mental leap that's you climbing a rock in your avatar, peg leg and all.

I can't tell from your picture, but if your prosthetic attaches below your knee, you should have no problems braking with your right foot. Most of your braking power is with your front brake anyway, and you probably have a firm grip with your right hand climbing rocks.

Maybe just leave the brake pedal where it is.

Can you adjust the articulation of the ankle joint? making it stiffer so when you need to slam on brakes, your ankle will not give so easily as when you walk?

Two Sundays ago at a Toys For Tots ride, I saw a Harley with a sidecar setup that had been completely transformed to allow the owner to operate it from his wheelchair.

We're talking about a complete geared motorcycle, all being operated by hand controls -- moving a brake pedal should be simple in comparison.

Good luck in your efforts.

Would it be possible to get a simple bracket fabricated that would attach to your existing brake pedal, but crosses over the centre mat/tunnel, so that you could use your left foot to operate the existing brake?

Does that make sense? Well I know what I mean.

Scooters O did it on a lambretta for a guy, if I recall correctly. Contact them to see if they can/will do it again. But yes, it's absolutely possible.

thanks for all the replies... Getting something machines would obviously look way cooler, But I also guess that having a contraption that would sit on the left and press the break on the right would be easier to move from one scoot to the next. Thanks for that idea, because i've never thought about it.

And not that it matters, but when I first lost my leg and didn't have a prosthesis, I had to use only my left leg. Then I got my prosthesis, still decided it was safer to take off my leg and only use my left foot. One day it was raining and I didn't feel like taking off my leg so I figured to gas you just press and go! So essentially now i drive like a woman, Gas with right, break with left. I've tried to break with my left, it works, but you can't feel anything, so sudden stopping is annoying.

I would add a +1 to Eric's post. Since the rear brake is cable operated, it should be no huge problem to have the pedal on the left side. There is nothing there to conflict with it. Might take some special machine shop work to make a left handed pedal, but other than that, it looks straight forward.

Al

May not be that hard to modify a smallframe or P series either. The stock pedal comes off a mounting point that mostly centered under the floorboards. you could have a new pedal made that comes up to the left instead of the right or maybe even have one on each side. very doable.

Then there's the not so cool but easy option of just going with a modern vespa and not have any pedals at all.

{Phaetn takes off Vespa hat and puts on car racing one.} Actually, the fastest men drive this way. F1 drivers -- especially ones that grew up racing go-karts (and that's most of them now) -- all left foot brake in the age of semi-automatic (clutchless) racing transmissions. There are only a few right foot brakers left at all, and for them it's too hard to learn to make the transition.

It's slightly faster because it eliminates the momentary time loss between lifting one's right foot off the gas and applying it to the brake; instead it's simultaneous: braking begins with the left foot as the right is still lifting off the gas. It helps them stay on the accelerator longer and/or brake later (deeper) and probably both.

While strictly right foot drivers can apply the right foot to both pedals at once at times (heel and toe), it's only to blip the throttle when downshifting while under braking and never for the initial transfer over to the brake so as to not have to let off the accelerator (that would be way too risky/dangerous).

Good luck with whichever mod you choose to go with (casting a new brake lever or jerry-rigging a connected dual lever system).

Its possible, but the main obstacles are the pin in the frame that the brake lever attaches to, and the wee tube in the frame that acts as a stopper on the outer cable.

Also, welding any kind of bar to the Vespa brake pedal is going to be a bit tougher because its made of aluminum.

However, if you can find some one who really knows their Vespas, understands how the braking system works and the materials you are dealing with, and there's a good chance they could find a solution.

Lammys, however, are much easier because you can weld a bar from the top of the pedal across to the other side as the pedal is made of steel, which is a simple, if a little bodgish solution.

Andrea

That was Tim when he got cab doored and had trouble using his right leg for quite a long time.

As this was posted in the NSM discussion, I feel obligated to point out to our learned friends on MV's that the above comment is not applicable to our mighty steeds.

Why dont you just get one of those steel foot plates the speedway guys use and attach it to your prosthesis? You'd probably stop faster than most "vintage" scoots that way!

Matt

I'm not sure which steeds you're referring to. On any motorcycle, the front brake is most effective because when you apply braking, any braking, the weight shifts forward and puts more weight on the front wheel as you slow down. It's the same reasoning on MVs, the front brake pads are double the thickness as the rear brake pads, or on others there is a more effective disk brake on the front, and a less effective drum brake on the rear. On vintage scooters the brakes are just lousy all around.

On most vintage bikes the front brakes are way worse than the rear so the rear breaks become what you depend on to stop even though the weight is shifting forward and making this less than effective.

With that in mind going with a newer P series or upgrading to a disk front brake would be a good idea.

http://www.nabd.org.uk/whoare.htm

I know these guys are based in the uk, but surely there is a similar set up in the USA that should be able to point you in the right direction and also give contacts of companies specializing in the sort of modification you are after

Without starting a slinging match.........

You obviously didn't read my post properly or look at what scoot I have listed under my avatar. As I said, this thread is in the Not So Modern section, so you can take your fancy disc brakes and get back to the boring forum.......

I have been riding motorcycles for over twenty years and only just started on a PX.

I was only trying to point out to any new "vintage" scooter rider that may have been reading this thread that on a vintage scoot the front brakes are definately NOT the strongest.

Rant over.

I think I would crash everytime if I was dependent on my front brake only.

Not that I really want to get into the middle of this, but really both sides are right.

Vintage scooter riders do tend to rely more on their rear brake than modern scooter or motorcycle riders would, but I suspect that's largely as a result of preference as well as because of serious suspension dive compared to more modern scooters; of course, there's also the relatively poor performance from the front brake, but often that's matched by the lousy rear one, too, as starreem himself has pointed out.

According to the physics of the matter -- and assuming same brake size -- the front should be more effective because of weight transfer to the front. Given the same amount of braking force applied to both front and rear, the front should be less likely to lock up than the rear (which has "lightened"), and hence should be considered more effective (since you should be able to actually apply more braking force to it before locking the wheel).

The reality is, however, that many older scooter drivers prefer to rely more on the rear. Sometimes the front really is less effective, but it's not because of physics, but the state of the repair of the scooter in question. It might have a warped front drum, or one can't get a lot of force on the lever, and even at full pull it doesn't seem to do as much as the rear. I think that's from poor maintenance or settings, however.

I have a '78 Super 150 with 8" wheels and drums. Brakes don't get a lot less effective than that. That said, there's plenty of stopping power considering the light weight of the bike, relatively low top speed (about 85km/h), and if one rides with any amount of sense and anticipation. I've had a few "oh sh*t" moments, too, though, and have been surprised at the overall amount of braking force available in an emergency. (I can easily lock the rear, though have never done it to the front, thankfully).

All that said, I've experienced large changes in the effectiveness of the front brake simply by making some adjustments and repairs. There were times when I could do a full front brake grab and wouldn't get that much stopping power, and definitely relied more on the rear. After some adjustments, including a new front drum hub, checking the pads, putting on a new return spring, and installing a new cable and teflon-lined outer housing, I had MUCH better front braking power. Now it's definitely better than the rear, and I rely on it a lot. I always start with the rear since it lights the brake lamp, but by the end of a stop have a significant amount of front brake applied too, and if I need to stop quickly it definitely does a lot more of the work. Your mileage may vary....

I just want to clarify things.....

I don't want to upset anyone, I've only been here a short time and the crew seems to be really great, supportive of newbies and very tolerant.

I was trying (in my own way) to be funny in my last post with the reference to go back to the other forum.

The last thing I want is to get people off side, so if I have offended anyone please accept my apology.

I'll buy you lots of beers if you want to come down and collect.

Matt

Ok, there is a guy here in Denver I see every now and then on an orange Stella, has a prostetic on his right leg. I've never had a chance to check out his set up but next time I see him I'll flag him down and see if I can check it out.

I've also seen the same guy on a ET4 and that seems like a simple solution to me.

Sweet Deal! Yeah, if you see him, ask what he does (picture would be cool too). I know a modern would be the easy way to go, and I have no problem either way. I'm just thinking some time down the line I'd like to know that I have the option of getting a vintage style.

and honestly... i've never sat on a vintage scoot... SO I might not even have to do anything. anyone want to donate one to my cause?

You can't have mine but you can borrow it if you want to come over!

Vintage front brakes always seem to fall at on end or the other of a suggestion that the front brakes exist to touch me and I'm going to lock up and dump you.

If you find a good welder they should have no problem working with aluminum. Either that or just use steel and get it chromed.