Modern Vespa

Recently, my local Kmart started stocking the RAIDER brand of helmets for a very affordable price. I tried one of their full-face helmets on, and their Large-size helmet fit me very well. Not to mention, I looked really bad-ass when I went to a mirror to look at myself with that helmet and my leather jacket on...

But...I've never heard of this brand before, and I'm afraid that this is going to be one of those "You get what you pay for" things.

So before I plunk down $70 for one, is this a reliable helmet? Or am I paying $70 just for another very large paperweight?

They make a great chip holder at a Super Bowl party...
Not worth the $35.00 I paid at BassPro shop...
( I just needed a quick spare..)
That's funny, Kmart told me they weren't going to carry them any more.
I got my first helemt there 25 years ago....

What about the full-face ones? Those are the ones I'm interested in.

As someone who knows someone who knows someone who has been a victim of aggravated shoplifting, I find the term "RAIDER" offensive, and would ask you to remove it from the thread title. I don't want it burning itself onto my retinas day after day.

But...that's the brand. How else would people know what I'm talking about?
I do apologize if you find it offensive, though.

Dah

I don't like it.

Check out HJC for a good quality affordable helmet.

Remember it's your head you are trying to protect... not your wallet.

The Raider helmet performed well in the Motorcyclistonline helmet review from a few years ago.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html

I can never understand why anyone would risk the potential costly head trauma by opting for a cheap helmet. You only have one brain - why take the risk of permanent damage to your melon?

There's a few vendors with reviews of what they sell by customers who bought from them. Here's one with a Shoei review:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/38/5751/ITEM/Shoei-RF-1000-Metallic-Helmet.aspx

I know it's expensive, but one I recommend. HJC is another I've tried. Your biggest headache will be finding the correct fit of a helmet to your size head.

Remember, your skull is no substitute for a poor quality helmet.

Edit: I shouldn't say Raider is a cheap helmet - quite honestly, I've never heard of it (other than those NFL football helmets). However, K-mart is not a place I'd go for a good motorcycle helmet. Motorcycle stores in your area will carry the decent brands - if you're scooter shop don't carry any...

Did you read the article?

I know it has been controversial, however I think it is worth a read and has some valid points.


Throwing a lot of dough at a helmet does not guarantee a great or even a good helmet.

I skimmed it. I've read it a year ago, but it's tediously long for a re-read.

Maybe you're right, maybe not. Shoei declined to participate in their testing. I'm sure I pay for sponsorship $$ of some Joe-Shmuck celebrity motorcycle rider when I buy their helmet. Plus, the cost of sending it over from Japan.

I'm not willing to take the risk of going low price. I just offered a site of various reviews of different models. Owner reviews do help.

One could go cheap and buy some gently used helmets offered for sale on Craigslist. Is this recommended? Probably not.

I found I had to try different helmets in person. Believe me, I went to over ten different motorcycle and scooter shops before I settled on what I've got. I could have went for HJC. Maybe I will next time.

Answer me this, why don't the bike shops sell Raider helmets? What do they know that we don't

Exactly. The new, yet controversial SHARP helmet safety test in the UK, sometimes supports this notion. Either way, if you look around you can find some really incredible deals for new, more popular brand name helmets on places like eBay. I just bought a brand new w/tags, still in box KBC fullface helmet (2005 model, MSRP was around $200) for $50 w/shipping from a retailer getting shedding old inventory. Totally legit.

If you're interested, PM me and I'll send you a link to their eBay store.

Chances are they are made by another helmet manufacturer specifically for Kmart and Pep Boys.

My Dome deserves Full Face Arai or a Shoei.

5 years worth of use from a $500 helmet seems like a good investment.

Your helmet choice says a lot about you.

Real helmet reviews by a respectable source:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmets.htm

What you should know about helmets and fit, etc before buying one:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-faq.htm

Thanks for the feedback!

I asked because I don't have a lot of money and I didn't know for sure if this was a reliable brand (because it did seem a little good to be true), but now I think I'll go with a Bell helmet. I know they make quality helmets, and even though I'll be paying double what a Raider helmet costs (and I'll have to go out of my way to try one on and buy one), my head will thank me.

Hmm...I may also look for an HJC helmet...

When it comes to helmets, there are a lot of helmets in the $150 to $250 range that are every bit as good as those $400-$500 helmets. A $500 helmet is not any stronger or safer than a good $150 helmet, it may be a better fit, quieter, have better ventilation, a better paint job, or a softer liner, but that extra bucks only puts more profit into the manufacturers pockets. Read the helmet reviews on webbikeworld.com and you will see that most helmets are of decent quality above the $150 range.
If you like the $150 helmet then you just saved $350.

But I would not buy anything less than $150. Those are 1 time use helmets.

HJC= not a bad choice. Some folks think HJC helmets are even safer than Shoei/Arai (se the FAQ link above, the testing they did has to be linked in there somewhere).

Make sure it FITS/COMFORTABLE. Walk around in store with it on for 45 minutes. I'm not kidding. I did. FIT is more important than $$$, above a minimum price of course.

This is one of the reasons I went with a $150 Vega Summit modular rather than some $300+ model. I did a ton of research and comparison shopping first, which I suggest anyone looking for a new helmet should do.

But while I don't think more money = better helmet, it is probably wise to stick with established brands sold through respected dealers and retailers which specialize in motorcycle gear. There are a lot of fly-by-night sites offering cheap "DOT" helmets made in China and sold under some brand you've never heard of. If you can't find a website for the manufacturer, stay away.

You can find great prices on good name brand helmets if you're willing to do some footwork. It just takes tenacity and patience.

Really tempted by the hybrid open/full face ones. Ideal for at the petrol station

Until my current one, I've always had HJC (and I'm hoping to get another to replace my current helmet very soon). The two times I've actually gone down and hit the pavement with my head, I didn't even suffer a headache from it. I believe HJC is probably the best you can possibly get for the price. Which is good, because after all the $$$ I spend on the scoot itself, I don't have much left over for a super expensive helmet. That, and nearly every single motorcycle shop I've ever been in carries them. They're all over the place, and you can order replacement face shields for them almost anywhere.

+10, but not sure it's the same Raider, and they did take an issue with one feature.

Assuming that there is a direct relationship between price and protection is laughable. There's an MV member who paid 700 or 800 bucks for an open face helmet. Will that protect him as well as the full face "Raider"? From certain hazards, definitely not.

The article coprock cites is a MUST READ. It's long and technical, but it is spot on.

If you are interested in the test results of random testing commissioned by the National Transportation Safety Administration Administration, look here:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/comply/fmvss218/ You will find a couple of "Big Name Brand" helmets that failed testing.

I would ask those who say they "did research" to offer exactly what that means. Did you physically test the helmets you "researched". Or did you just read reviews, and if so, where they comparative reviews that did physical testing of the helmets?

Al

Do you borrow helmets from dealers, then test them in your garage lab?

I think you're probably well aware that it's not feasible or usually even possible to physically test a helmet yourself before buying. What sort of test could we do? Even when relying on reviews, they don't conduct physical tests of the helmets. So usually the best research any of us can do is to check reliable sources for reviews (I rarely trust user reviews when it comes to helmets), check out the manufacturer online, and check the NHTSA.

But that's also why I think it's better to stick with more established, reputable brands. Yes, they produce some lemons and yes, some lesser-known brands may be just as good. The question is "How do you know?"

Thanks for the article, coprock. It was definitely the information I needed.

Even though I was surprised that the Raider did so well in the tests, the reason why I am buying a full-face helmet is because of the added chin and neck protection that it provides. Had it had the EPS on the chin bar, I would consider a Raider helmet, but since it doesn't, it's better to be safe than sorry and look towards other brands.

Thanks for the replies!

You hit the nail right on the head. Simply hyping brand name and/or price is as faulty a methodology in stating a helmet is a better bet than another as drawing straws.

In my 29 years flying for the Army, we went through numerous changes in helmet design and specifications. Our research was based on tests such as made in the article coprock cites, as well as evaluating the protection provided in actual mishaps. Mishaps where the crew member survived and where he/she didn't. Mishaps involving cranial impact were studied to determine the optimal helmet design. Note that the article mentions disagreement between the military and Snell, a foundation that many cite as the "Gold Standard".

All buyers in the US really have to go on is the manufacturer's DOT or Snell claim and a check to see if the DOT has tested a given brand/model. Any other representations by laymen are pure hogwash. If you given helmet protected you in a given mishap, that simply means that in your unique circumstance, it worked.

Thus, all one can do is look to independent tests, such as the one made in the article, and come to your own conclusions.

Al

The question is "How do you know?"
Well, we may not know the correct answer to that, but we can make an informed decision.
By reading that article and other compairison articles like those on WebBikeWorld.com, plus some dealers have reader comments, we can decide not only what features we want but what helmet has problems and what the dealers did to resolve those problems.
By doing the research beforehand, one can purchase a helmet to his/her likeing with few if any suprises.

Yes, but someone's "liking" is not a measure of relative protection.

Laypersons have no business stating that one full face helmet is going to provide better protection than another, unless they can cite specific data to support the claim. It's as simple as that. And then, it is the source of the data's claim.not the individual's.

Similarly, helmet fit varies from head to head and helmet to helmet.

All one can do is check to see if a helmet manufacturer is reputable, make a layman's evaluation of the construction, try the helmet on to see if it fits well, and put faith in the DOT/Snell label affixed thereto.

Saying that one is better protected by spending no less than $150 is pure hogwash.

Al

That still brings us laypeople back to the question "How do you know?" as far as safety goes. And people's opinions have some merit too in that they state what problems they found. Gives us a reason not to buy a certain helmet that has a problem of sorts. Other opinions will bring out the better points of a helmet.

With any safety device, be it a helmet, bullet proof vest, safety glasses, industrial hard hats, steel toe shoes, we have to believe some of the labs like Snell & DOT did the testing and rate the produce for us so we can decide what to buy. If a $69 helmet meets DOT just like a $700 helmet does then we laypeople know we are protected if we buy either helmet.

We know we are protected up to the minimum standards used by the DOT for testing. And they're not stringent. There are a lot of criticisms of both DOT and Snell and their testing methods and standards; I really don't want to wade into that argument again. But I don't think it's safe to assume (or even imply) that all DOT-certified helmets offer the same amount of protection. There are a lot of pretty crappy DOT-certified helmets out there.

I recently had this experience with a cheap (but DOT-certified) HCI helmet I bought off eBay a year or so ago with the intent to paint it.

Aviator47 -

How about an SPH-4 as a scooter helmet? Not much protection for the chin but great noise attenuation! Perfect for mounting NVGs, too!

This:



As compared to this:


Not as pretty, but I would guess at least equal cranial protection. They are, however, manufactured to different protection standards, and are intended to be regularly maintained by trained technicians.


Yes, we finally got noise attenuation in the crosshairs with the SPH-4. Also, saw numerous fine tunings of the suspension system.

Unfortunately, about 2,000 hours of my Chinook time was with the APH-5, which provided virtually no noise attenuation. Thus my tinnitus, amongst other hearing issues.

Aviation brain buckets do not need to address some of the threats of PTW lids, thus the lack of "full face" models. Not much chance for sliding face down.

Al

But, how do you define "crappy", and how do you, the layman, measure the "amount of protection" for like categories of helmets? Yes, and in that same thread, another poster praises that very same make and model. Two considerably different anecdotal offerings.

In short, few, if any of us on MV are qualified to offer valid information as to the relative level of protection one brand/model of helmet offers over another, other than the increased protection full face provides over open face.

My point is that advising someone to purchase for protection using a retail price floor as a significant factor is not sound.

Al

"Crappy" meaning of much lesser quality than others also bearing the DOT labeling. "Crappy" meaning a helmet which came apart in my hands after a tug (not even a yank) on the liner. Sure, someone else said they thought it was an okay lid. But if I read about a helmet coming apart so easily-the inner styrofoam popping right out-I'd sure as hell think twice about buying one. That's precisely the kind of user review I'd find useful.

I'm not trying to quantify the amount of protection, just saying that it will vary between different DOT helmets and that there is a broad range of helmets of varying quality that meet the DOT standards. I doubt even you would argue against that. So I, the layman, don't really need to measure it myself to make a reasonable deduction that it's not going to be equal in all cases. Maybe not, but I do think we can agree they're not equal despite not being equipped to measure the relative differences. I don't really think I've said anything different than what you have.

And I would respond that since we, the layman, have no way of identifying possible inequalities in protection, it's a specious argument. Discussing "nice to have" features, aesthetics, noise, etc is one thing. Saying that wearing a less expensive brand is less "safe" is another.

Most of us haven't a clue as to what the DOT specs are, or what they are established to protect against. However, many of us simply conclude that DOT means some kind of "minimum", and intuitively think that "minimum" is not good. And, if a helmet "exceeds" DOT specs, what does that mean?

There is legitimate discussion concerning comfort and apparent "quality" of build. The ease with which the liner came out of your helmet MIGHT be a legitimate quality concern. But, to serve as the devil's advocate, if the helmet is securely on your head, would this reduce the protection it offers in an impact? I have no way of knowing, but your experience is rightfully unsettling, even though it provides no scientific reason to question the "protection" offered. Yes, indeed. If any discussion of the relative protection merits of helmets is reasonable, it should be full face versus open face. The benefits of full face are obvious and have noting to do with DOT.

Al

Forgive me for saying so but this whole argument is a farce!

Few, I think, would doubt that FI Racing-car drivers probably buy the best as far as safety clothing goes; indeed, these days their crash helmets are made-to-measure and very technical pieces of equipment.

Not as advanced, Senna's helmet was also probably the best money could buy but it didn't do him much good in the circumstances which saw him die.

I saw a most interesting programme a few years ago about the design of helmets for parachutists, especially the military.
Jumpers had suffered severe brain injuries through helmets catching on the ground because of their shape and 'stopping' suddenly while the brains of the jumpers continued to rotate inside their skulls.

We should be concentrating on the shape of the helmet - bits sticking out may cause similar damage - as much as build-quality, something that can be assessed only by reading reports and personal experience.

There's a lot to be said for 'if it feels/looks right, it usually is'.