Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:50 pm

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Moderator
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Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:50 pm linkquote
I think I've got it.

At low RPM's as I move slowly from a standstill to speed, I get that grunching sound/shudder for a moment or two until everything gets itself together. My belt and rollers are relatively new. I changed them just before the winter set it. If I accelerate quickly, no sound. Nothing unusual at speed either.

So I'm assuming the problem is with the clutch pads/bell engaging smoothly.

It's more of an annoyance than anything...still...

Before I take things apart, my search results tell me to blow out the dust, check the inside of the clutch bell for any unusual wear, and abrade it a bit with green scotchbrite pads. Anything else? Should I do anything to the clutch pads?

I've also come across some people saying if the bell is out of round, that could cause a similar problem. How common is that?

Thanks.
Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:52 pm

Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
 
Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
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Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:52 pm linkquote
scotch bright will do nothing but make it shine

200 grit sand paper, then blow out the dust. make sure it's scored up something good.
Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:50 pm

Hooked
Black '07 LX 150
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 356
Location: Seattle
 
Hooked
Black '07 LX 150
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 356
Location: Seattle
Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:50 pm linkquote
I get shudder every once in a while and just blow out the clutch bell with Brakleen. (Thanks to fellow MVers for teaching me that trick). You dont need to even take the engine housing off and it works fine in cleaning grime off your clutch that causes shudder. Just take off the Vespa cap from the engine cover and stick the straw inside and blast away. Have some paper underneath to catch the mess.
Works for me..Unless you have a more serious issue, then this might not work for you...but couldnt hurt to try.
Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:47 pm

Hooked
GT200
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Hooked
GT200
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:47 pm linkquote
Brakleen?
Is that the CRC 'brakleen'
sounds very easy


Coggo
Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:15 pm

Molto Verboso
"Thread Killer Extraordinaire!"
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 1303
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
 
Molto Verboso
"Thread Killer Extraordinaire!"
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Posts: 1303
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:15 pm linkquote
+1 on the Brakleen for the clutch.

Brakleen also cleans dirty rifle receivers and kills hornets on contact. Useful stuff.[/u]
Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:01 am

Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
 
Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:01 am linkquote
Brakleen is great stuff, and I do advise trying that first, but it won't solve any problem if the drum is glazed. It helps if the shoes are slipping on dust but not if the contact surface isn't prime for mating.

Ooo this is post 4000. Yikes.
Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:06 am

Molto Verboso
LX150
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: US
 
Molto Verboso
LX150
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: US
Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:06 am linkquote
Re: That good 'ol clutch shudder...
Menhir wrote:
I've also come across some people saying if the bell is out of round, that could cause a similar problem. How common is that?

Thanks.
Humidity is enough to make rubber on steel a bit grabby...particularly if you've got some morning dew.
Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:30 am

Molto Verboso
C70. CB400, Duke200, DRZ400SM
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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Location: singapore
 
Molto Verboso
C70. CB400, Duke200, DRZ400SM
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Location: singapore
Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:30 am linkquote
Re: That good 'ol clutch shudder...
TheWasp wrote:
Humidity is enough to make rubber on steel a bit grabby...particularly if you've got some morning dew.
i had the same experience as menhir .. thought it was my belt going or something. Humidity is high all year round where i live, coupled with the fact that it has been raining almost daily ..

As usual, MV comes to the rescue to help me understand my scoot better ... thanks ALL
Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:35 am

Molto Verboso
GTS250ie, ET4
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: cincinnati, ohio, usa
 
Molto Verboso
GTS250ie, ET4
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Posts: 1244
Location: cincinnati, ohio, usa
Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:35 am linkquote
Take the clutch assembly outside and use a compressor and blow the crap out of it. If yours is like mine the dust cloud will really surprise you. Make sure your standing upwind Then put (1) Drop of oil on the pivot points and reassemble.

Sandpaper the inside of the bell housing but dont get carried away
Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:56 am

Hooked
2007 Sky Blue LX150, 2007 Daring Plum LX 150
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Solvang, CA
 
Hooked
2007 Sky Blue LX150, 2007 Daring Plum LX 150
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Solvang, CA
Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:56 am linkquote
So there are no bearings, etc. to be damaged by the Brakleen and the belt is impervious too? (I've never taken the full cover off, just the little chrome cap.) Brakleen dissolves almost anything, that is why I ask.
Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:55 am

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Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Moderator
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:55 am linkquote
I appreciate all the help.

When I replaced the belt and rollers late last year, I remember thinking the bell was very smooth inside. The shudder was happening even before that point...it was just getting a little more noticeable lately. So I'm guessing it's likely the bell is glazed and I should be prepared to rough it out a bit.

I've been in the habit of blowing out the dust from time to time so I think there is more involved here than dust alone.

I picked up the Brakleen today. I never heard of that stuff before. It sounds like it will come in handy.
Quote:
So there are no bearings, etc. to be damaged by the Brakleen and the belt is impervious too? (I've never taken the full cover off, just the little chrome cap.) Brakleen dissolves almost anything, that is why I ask.
I'm curious, too. Just spray it in the holes and be done with it, nothing to worry about, right?
Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:58 pm

Hooked
GT200
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Hooked
GT200
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:58 pm linkquote
Menhir wrote:
I appreciate all the help.

When I replaced the belt and rollers late last year, I remember thinking the bell was very smooth inside. The shudder was happening even before that point...it was just getting a little more noticeable lately. So I'm guessing it's likely the bell is glazed and I should be prepared to rough it out a bit.

I've been in the habit of blowing out the dust from time to time so I think there is more involved here than dust alone.

I picked up the Brakleen today. I never heard of that stuff before. It sounds like it will come in handy.
Quote:
So there are no bearings, etc. to be damaged by the Brakleen and the belt is impervious too? (I've never taken the full cover off, just the little chrome cap.) Brakleen dissolves almost anything, that is why I ask.
I'm curious, too. Just spray it in the holes and be done with it, nothing to worry about, right?
did you just do it?

Coggo
Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:13 am

Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
 
Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:13 am linkquote
Interestingly I had serious clutch shudder probs when I first bought my GT in 04. I was opening the CVT every 4000km to clean and abraid the clutch bell. Then I switched to Brakleen and over the last 18 months I have had less and less cause to use it. Sort of like the Brakleen has helped the clutch bed in over time. That and the fact thast the GT has now clocked 28000kms.
One little word of warning - use the fine nozzle, not the general spray. I have heard that the solvent in Brakleen can strip the lubricant out of the belt idler wheel.
Good luck Menhir.
Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:01 am

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Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Moderator
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Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:01 am linkquote
Boulty wrote:
Interestingly I had serious clutch shudder probs when I first bought my GT in 04. I was opening the CVT every 4000km to clean and abraid the clutch bell. Then I switched to Brakleen and over the last 18 months I have had less and less cause to use it. Sort of like the Brakleen has helped the clutch bed in over time. That and the fact thast the GT has now clocked 28000kms.
One little word of warning - use the fine nozzle, not the general spray. I have heard that the solvent in Brakleen can strip the lubricant out of the belt idler wheel.
Good luck Menhir.
That will save me some time. I was going to just sand up the clutch bell for starts because I figured the Brakleen may have only been a stopgap measure.
Quote:
did you just do it?
No. I've been traveling for a while. Just got back. Just.
I'll do it today. Promise.
Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:07 pm

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Moderator
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:07 pm linkquote
OK...I did it.
Just before I left for work this afternoon I used the Brakleen.

It worked!

The shudder disappeared. I rode 57 miles before I got back home, smooth as silk all the way. I never expected such a drastic difference.

Thanks!
Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:11 pm

Hooked
GT200
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Hooked
GT200
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:11 pm linkquote
Menhir wrote:
OK...I did it.
Just before I left for work this afternoon I used the Brakleen.

It worked!

The shudder disappeared. I rode 57 miles before I got back home, smooth as silk all the way. I never expected such a drastic difference.

Thanks!
Menhir
So just pop the chrome cover, poke in the fine nozzle and squirt away?

JC
Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:13 pm

Moderator
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5145
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Moderator
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Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:13 pm linkquote
Quote:
Menhir
So just pop the chrome cover, poke in the fine nozzle and squirt away?
That pretty much sums it up. 8)
Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:14 pm

Hooked
GT200
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Hooked
GT200
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Posts: 360
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:14 pm linkquote
brilliant, I will give it a go, Sounds too easy
Coggo
Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:08 pm

Addicted
09 GTS300 Super black, 04 GT 200 smoky, 05 GT 125 smoky (in pieces)
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 740
Location: Barcelona
 
Addicted
09 GTS300 Super black, 04 GT 200 smoky, 05 GT 125 smoky (in pieces)
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Posts: 740
Location: Barcelona
Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:08 pm linkquote
Menhir wrote:
OK...I did it.
Just before I left for work this afternoon I used the Brakleen.

It worked!

The shudder disappeared. I rode 57 miles before I got back home, smooth as silk all the way. I never expected such a drastic difference.

Thanks!
Cool. Just don't do any more "slow starts," or the clutch pads will glaze and the shudder will come back. Starting "normally" will prevent this.
Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:30 pm

Molto Verboso
C70. CB400, Duke200, DRZ400SM
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1038
Location: singapore
 
Molto Verboso
C70. CB400, Duke200, DRZ400SM
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1038
Location: singapore
Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:30 pm linkquote
quattrovalvole wrote:
Menhir wrote:
OK...I did it.
Just before I left for work this afternoon I used the Brakleen.

It worked!

The shudder disappeared. I rode 57 miles before I got back home, smooth as silk all the way. I never expected such a drastic difference.

Thanks!
Cool. Just don't do any more "slow starts," or the clutch pads will glaze and the shudder will come back. Starting "normally" will prevent this.
Newbie question here .. what is a "slow start" vs a "normal start" . Thanks
Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:30 am

Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
 
Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:30 am linkquote
zero o wrote:
quattrovalvole wrote:
Menhir wrote:
OK...I did it.
Just before I left for work this afternoon I used the Brakleen.

It worked!

The shudder disappeared. I rode 57 miles before I got back home, smooth as silk all the way. I never expected such a drastic difference.

Thanks!
Cool. Just don't do any more "slow starts," or the clutch pads will glaze and the shudder will come back. Starting "normally" will prevent this.
Newbie question here .. what is a "slow start" vs a "normal start" . Thanks
You give it a bit of throttle and all you get is slippage or shuddering with very little acceleration.
Normal = key, start, twist....gone!
Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:40 am

Molto Verboso
C70. CB400, Duke200, DRZ400SM
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1038
Location: singapore
 
Molto Verboso
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Posts: 1038
Location: singapore
Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:40 am linkquote
Boulty wrote:
zero o wrote:
Newbie question here .. what is a "slow start" vs a "normal start" . Thanks
You give it a bit of throttle and all you get is slippage or shuddering with very little acceleration.
Normal = key, start, twist....gone!
ahhh .. i see .. thanks

Thu May 07, 2009 8:37 am

Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 12
Location: London, England
 
Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 12
Location: London, England
Thu May 07, 2009 8:37 am linkquote
beergeek wrote:
I get shudder every once in a while and just blow out the clutch bell with Brakleen.
Does any type of brake cleaner do the job, or does it have to be brakleen (can't find it locally). Thanks.
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:11 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5393
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
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Posts: 5393
Location: Santa Cruz California
Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:11 pm linkquote
Thought I'd post a recent experience wrt shudder and "the fix", so to speak that didn't involve the two common remedies that most people recommend: brakleen or 10 or so miles of freeway travel to blow the dust out of the clutch bell. Here's the history.

300 miles: Shudder started happening on my GTV from 300 mile point. I called the local shop and the mechanic told me to avoid slow starts. "Start hard and then back off whenever you can to avoid glazing the clutch shoes". I also tried riding at freeway speeds for 10 miles or so and that didn't help.

600 miles: At the 600 mile service, the mechanic scuffed the clutch bell and pads up with 200 grit sandpaper and said I should be good to go. the shudder came back after about 100 miles. I talked to the mechanic and told him I'd taken his advice and was gunning it on take off.

800 miles: He scuffed it up again, and it came back again after about 100 miles. We decided to change the clutch bell since it got worse after it heated up and his feeling was that clutch bell was going out of round when it warmed up.

1000 miles: It came back and it had nothing to do with warming up. We talked about what the causes might be. He says he's worked on about 800 vespas and once people avoided the slow take off, the problem went away.

1200 miles: It came back again. I got tired of taking it back in. I recently went back in and talked to him about potential other causes: belt slipping, unevenly warn rollers, .... He was insistent that the clutch pads and bell were the only things that could cause the problem

He's since cleaned it for me several more times (under warranty).

Last time I went in was a few weeks ago. They let me borrow a GTS 250 for the day. The low-end torque difference between my GTV and the GTS was quite noticeable (and enjoyable on the GTS). When I asked about it, he told me they'd replaced the GTS variator with a J Costa.

For about $350 (parts and labor I think), they replaced my variator with the J Costa. That was almost 400 miles ago. Its been smooth as silk ever since. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw other than it appears, from this limited case, that there may be other things that cause shudder, even tho its not acknowledged by the local mechanic. I think my bike was an anomaly to him in that the shudder kept coming back.

Whatever. I'm just glad its gone.
Best
Miguel
Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:15 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 40890
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
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Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:15 pm linkquote
For me - the J Costa is Magic. Now down-graded in the 'best mods' stakes for an MP3 500 after Jeff's foot-peg brackets - but a very close second!
Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:55 am

Ossessionato
2009 GTV 244, 2005 BMW F652 CS, 2001 ET4 150
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 2379
Location: Chicago, IL
 
Ossessionato
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Posts: 2379
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Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:55 am linkquote
Menhir wrote:
Quote:
Menhir
So just pop the chrome cover, poke in the fine nozzle and squirt away?
That pretty much sums it up. 8)
Okay--just to be clear because this just sounds WAAAAY to easy . . .

Pop the chrome cap off, and instead of blowing compressed air in there, squirt brakleen in the same hole, then ride like hell?

Did you squirt a lot in there?

Really excited to try this--my ET has been neglected since this problem flared up.
Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:46 am

Moderator
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Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Moderator
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Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:46 am linkquote
I'm glad you asked, because I should have done another follow up on this...

Yes, It's just that easy...you don't even have to ride like hell...that's optional.

But...
Yes, the Brakleen worked, but it wasn't a permanent fix...well, not for my anyway. After a while the shudder returned.

I think the problem for me was that dust buildup wasn't the problem. My long commute involves sections where there is a lot of stop and go traffic (which probably resulted in the glazing) and other sections where I'm riding stretches at 50MPH+ (which did a good job of blowing out the dust).

When I pulled the clutch bell I never found dust buildup, but it was pretty obviously glazed.

So the Brakleen was a temporary fix at best until I deglazed the bell. I did that, and the problem still returned after a while. I don't think I was aggressive enough. I just did a better job a couple of days ago...the shudder is gone but time will tell.

The Brakleen was still worth the purchase price and it's worth a try. Besides a temporary fix (or a more permanent fix for some), I still used it to clean the clutch bell after I deglazed it.

NOTE: Brakleen emits some nasty gasses...I only apply it outdoors, and I hold it at arms length.

As an aside...I was putting up with the shudder for a long time between fixes. Recently, the back plate of the clutch came loose and is rattling like hell...I'm looking for a new clutch assembly. I'm wondering if by ignoring the shudder, it resulted in the problem with the back plate.
Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:53 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8731
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
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Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:53 am linkquote
Menhir wrote:
As an aside...I was putting up with the shudder for a long time between fixes. Recently, the back plate of the clutch came loose and is rattling like hell...I'm looking for a new clutch assembly. I'm wondering if by ignoring the shudder, it resulted in the problem with the back plate.
I'd think that's entirely likely. The repeated shuddering was probably putting a great deal of strain on the rivets and eventually loosened them up.
Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:47 am

Hooked
Black Bess GT200L Vespa ET4, 125cc '02 Green gene
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Posts: 280
Location: LDN. GB.
 
Hooked
Black Bess GT200L Vespa ET4, 125cc '02 Green gene
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Posts: 280
Location: LDN. GB.
Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:47 am linkquote
Shudder
I was told by my local scooter repairer that the Vespas never wear their clutches out but do make that noise on take off. Apparently it gets louder the bigger engine. He also said they do it more in the warmer weather or when the clutch is hot. I don't know...

I'm just going to ignore the grind until it's full service just before it's MOT.
Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:15 am

Enthusiast
GT 200
Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 96
Location: Eugene, Oregon
 
Enthusiast
GT 200
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Posts: 96
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:15 am linkquote
I had nearly the same experience as Miguel's. Back and forth to the dealer, where they said they had never seen the problem before.

At about 1000 miles they got authorization to replace the variator, belt and clutch/bell. Worked great for about 500 miles then back to the same problem.

It was after the problem returned last summer that I read about the Brakleen solution. Works great! and I posted that I might buy a case of the stuff.

Then others wrote to say there were downsides to using Brakleen too often. So last fall when I had some time I pulled the cover myself, sanded the bell thoroughly and also the glazed pads lightly. Felt good to learn more about the innards.

That worked great for about 450-500 miles then it was back to the same old, same old. So now it's every few weeks with the Brakleen. If I hit it soon when I first notice the shudder it seems like much less of a problem anymore and something I can live with.
Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:19 am

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:19 am linkquote
It's always been the same with the 'strangled sealion'. It's a feature, not a bug, it always comes back.
Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:39 am

Enthusiast
GT 200
Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 96
Location: Eugene, Oregon
 
Enthusiast
GT 200
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Posts: 96
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:39 am linkquote
JimC,
That's what some people on this side of the pond call "putting lipstick on a pig". Thanks for your input!
Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:55 am

Ossessionato
2009 GTV 244, 2005 BMW F652 CS, 2001 ET4 150
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 2379
Location: Chicago, IL
 
Ossessionato
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Posts: 2379
Location: Chicago, IL
Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:55 am linkquote
Menhir wrote:
The Brakleen was still worth the purchase price and it's worth a try. Besides a temporary fix (or a more permanent fix for some), I still used it to clean the clutch bell after I deglazed it.

NOTE: Brakleen emits some nasty gasses...I only apply it outdoors, and I hold it at arms length.
Thanks for the followup. I'm definitely going to give this a shot and see if it reduces the shutter, although I'm a little apprehensive about having a can of this in my garage.

It's probably important (as you note in your wiki entry) at this point to let anyone who plans to do this that they should read the following thread (and embedded link) before using Brakleen:

Read This Thread Before Using Brakleen!
Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:49 pm

Addicted
Scooter Model: Occasionally
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 506
Location: On the perimeter
 
Addicted
Scooter Model: Occasionally
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 506
Location: On the perimeter
Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:49 pm linkquote
I just used this fix myself. I'm currently riding an '09 S150 with about 5500 miles on is, 2000 of which have been with a pillion. I think it worked! I used about half of the can. Since I had never had that Vespa cover off, I was curious as to which holes to spray the Brakleen into. It was obvious once I got the cover off.
Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:01 pm

Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32715
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32715
Location: Bay Area, California
Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:01 pm linkquote
Re: Shudder
Papa J wrote:
I was told by my local scooter repairer that the Vespas never wear their clutches out but do make that noise on take off.
That's mostly true -- it's rare to use up the whole clutch pad. You usually end up replacing the clutch mechanism (or parts therein) before the pads are worn out.
Papa J wrote:
Apparently it gets louder the bigger engine. He also said they do it more in the warmer weather or when the clutch is hot. I don't know...
The GT200 gets this quite a bit more often than the GTS or GTV. So it's not strictly a matter of engine size.
Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:42 am

Hooked
Black Bess GT200L Vespa ET4, 125cc '02 Green gene
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 280
Location: LDN. GB.
 
Hooked
Black Bess GT200L Vespa ET4, 125cc '02 Green gene
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 280
Location: LDN. GB.
Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:42 am linkquote
Cheers Jess, I had just popped by the garage to ask his opinion about the noise. So all in all fair response from him. Thanks for the added details just what I want to hear.
Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:15 pm

Enthusiast
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 77

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 77

Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:15 pm linkquote
Another culprit
I was also having the strangled sealion noise from my GT200. The Brakleen work for a bit, but it kept coming back. My transmission case is painted and the Brakleen started to remove some of the paint. I removed the transmission case to repaint as well as scuff up the clutch bell.

Then I discovered my real problem, there was a small oil leak from the gasket on the oil pan. Small amounts of oil were getting into the transmission housing an getting flung onto the clutch assembly.

New gasket, new paint on the cover, no more Brakleen, no more slipping / groaning.

dan
Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:46 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Honda NC700D Integra
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 5026
Location: London, UK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Honda NC700D Integra
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 5026
Location: London, UK
Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:46 am linkquote
Many thanks for this tip - seems to have sorted the godawful WOINNNGGG! from my GT whenever I accelerated from a standstill, at least for now...

(UK people, I used this:
http://www.getgeared.co.uk/PROCYCLE_Brake_Cleaner_750ml
A bigger can than you get in Halfords and a quid cheaper!)
Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:37 pm

Hooked
GTS 250ie
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 163
Location: Jupiter, Florida
 
Hooked
GTS 250ie
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 163
Location: Jupiter, Florida
Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:37 pm linkquote
Ok, having read all the warnings I'm about to try using Brakleen. One question thou - you spray with the engine running yes?
Thanks Jack
Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:26 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8731
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8731
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:26 pm linkquote
OneEyedJack wrote:
Ok, having read all the warnings I'm about to try using Brakleen. One question thou - you spray with the engine running yes?
Thanks Jack
No! That will just splatter Brakleen mixed with clutch dust all over everything inside the tranny housing, including the belt and pulleys. If you are going to go the Brakleen route, use the red straw and direct the spray all around inside the clutch area through the holes in the cover. Slowly turning the rear wheel will turn the clutch bell to enable you to better get at everything through its holes.

That's the way I'd do it... if I were going to do it. Personally, I don't like the idea of using Brakleen around bearing seals. I prefer to blow the dust out with compressed air every now and then, and take off the tranny cover for a more thorough cleaning and deglazing if it gets bad.
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