@zippygt avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa GT 200 '04
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Location: London
 
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@zippygt avatar
Vespa GT 200 '04
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Location: London
UTC quote
I found the waahhh grinding noise got worse in stop start traffic and particularly with a pillion when I lived in the city.

Cleaned the transmission filter at the front (later GTs have this, earlier ones vent higher up somewhere), then, and this was the important bit I think, took the Vespa plastic cover off the rear of the transmission case and popped off down some 50mph roads for 10-15 miles. Grinding noise stopped for a good while.

I just repeated the above to keep it all nice and quiet!

Don't have the same problem now that i live in the countryside... I maybe pull off from standstill once or twice in 20 odd miles...
@klem avatar
UTC

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LX 150!
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Location: MC Hammer --- You can't touch this!
 
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@klem avatar
LX 150!
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Location: MC Hammer --- You can't touch this!
UTC quote
Brakleen comes in different color cans. We want the red can, right?
Google pictures..
Google pictures..
@silver_streak avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@silver_streak avatar
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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Posts: 8749
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
UTC quote
Klem wrote:
Brakleen comes in different color cans. We want the red can, right?
I hadn't seen the one in the green can... must be new.

I see it says "non-chlorinated". Probably re-formulated to make the fumes a bit less lethal. Anybody have any idea whether it works as well?
@hexagoon avatar
UTC

Member
piaggio x8 + T5
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Location: london
 
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@hexagoon avatar
piaggio x8 + T5
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UTC quote
jubbling transmission
this really makes a case for a good service center,any transmission problem=cover off,yes sir you may well have had new belt and rollers but if that goon didn`t clean the whole housing,check variator wear(slides) and faces,clutch springs,shoes and all the rest.brakekleen ain`t gonna fix it
Find ur local tech and stick with`em .Stu
@lomunchi avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2020 Honda NC750DCT ABS
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Location: Maple Grove, MN
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@lomunchi avatar
2020 Honda NC750DCT ABS
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Posts: 6929
Location: Maple Grove, MN
UTC quote
I just used standard Brake Cleaner... I don't know about BrakeClean (or whatever it's called) I had to use it once every few months. Now that I ride the freeway daily it's never come back (2years on now). Open her up once a month or do and it'll take care of itself.
@stinkyjones avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2009 GTV 244, 2005 BMW F652 CS, 2001 ET4 150
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Location: Chicago, IL
 
Ossessionato
@stinkyjones avatar
2009 GTV 244, 2005 BMW F652 CS, 2001 ET4 150
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UTC quote
Finally got around to using the Brakleen and it worked as advertised in this thread.
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed    ⬇️
@rwong709 avatar
UTC

Addicted
2007 Vespa GT200
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Posts: 583
Location: Southern California
 
Addicted
@rwong709 avatar
2007 Vespa GT200
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Posts: 583
Location: Southern California
UTC quote
stinkyjones wrote:
Menhir wrote:
The Brakleen was still worth the purchase price and it's worth a try. Besides a temporary fix (or a more permanent fix for some), I still used it to clean the clutch bell after I deglazed it.

NOTE: Brakleen emits some nasty gasses...I only apply it outdoors, and I hold it at arms length.
It's probably important (as you note in your wiki entry) at this point to let anyone who plans to do this that they should read the following thread (and embedded link) before using Brakleen:

Read This Thread Before Using Brakleen!
Trichloroethylene is no longer allowed, often banned as a cleaning agent in many states (due to destruction of the ozone layer). Nerd emoticon Brakleen in the green can even says it is non-chlorinated...but good shop practices says do not expose any cleaning agents to heat or flame and do not mix with other agents to "make it better".
UTC

Lurker
ET4
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Location: England
 
Lurker
ET4
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Location: England
UTC quote
ET4 super-judder
My ET4 started playing up yesterday, it's developed a supper judder and is stuggling to find torque at low speeds (take offs) and up hills. I went up a 15% incline and struggled to get 20mph - that's definately worse than usual. And the occaisional shudder is now a bone shaking agonisingly slow takeoff.
I figure it's clutch related but would appreciate any advice, as the garages round here aren't scooter-specific and really strugggle with the compact vespa engine. If neccisary I'll get my hands dirty!
@silver_streak avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8749
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
 
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@silver_streak avatar
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8749
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
UTC quote
Bin Lid wrote:
My ET4 started playing up yesterday, it's developed a supper judder and is stuggling to find torque at low speeds (take offs) and up hills. I went up a 15% incline and struggled to get 20mph - that's definately worse than usual. And the occaisional shudder is now a bone shaking agonisingly slow takeoff.
I figure it's clutch related but would appreciate any advice, as the garages round here aren't scooter-specific and really strugggle with the compact vespa engine. If neccisary I'll get my hands dirty!
Sounds like you've got the classic symptoms. The info to fix it yourself is all right here in this thread. Personally, I using prefer compressed air with a blowgun to Brakleen, but -- if your symptoms are that bad -- you would probably be better off opening up the tranny case and lightly sanding the clutch bell and shoes, along with cleaning out the dust.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
@drewdle avatar
UTC

Hooked
2007 GTS250ie
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Posts: 154
Location: Victoria, BC
 
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@drewdle avatar
2007 GTS250ie
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Posts: 154
Location: Victoria, BC
UTC quote
I just wanted to confirm that the Brakeleen route (I used Motomaster Certified Brake Cleaner, but same thing) works like gangbusters if you're getting bad shudder. My GTS had been shuddering off and on, worse when it was hot, since I got it. I had to drive through a mountain pass a couple nights ago where there had been an accident, and I spent an hour or more doing less than 10km/h, with shuddering every time I applied power, and I just got sick of it after that. I followed the instructions, put everything back together, and took a ride to the gas station and back, and it's a night and day difference.

I don't doubt that this "quick fix" isn't as good as compressed air and a thorough disassemble would be, but it sure did the trick for now. So here's hoping my bearing seals are all good still.
UTC

Enthusiast
GT 200
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Posts: 96
Location: Eugene, Oregon
 
Enthusiast
GT 200
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Location: Eugene, Oregon
UTC quote
Drewdle,
I think you'll find that Brakeleen or whatever you used works better than high pressure air. The air does blow out the dust, but there is still a dust film on the metal clutch bell that won't come off without something "wet". If you have the option I would blow out first then hose it down.

I first posted about this subject several years ago and was relying on this method since then. It seemed like at least once a month I was hosing down the clutch bell. It all depended on how much in-town/stop-start I was doing. But for some reason the problem recently went away this Spring. I don't know why but I'm not complaining.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
UTC

Member
GT 125
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Posts: 25
Location: London
 
Member
GT 125
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Posts: 25
Location: London
UTC quote
Hi, sorry for the incredibly noobish post but where is this chrome cover that needs removing located?

I have some compresed air but no vespa haynes manual yet (one is on order) and my mechanical knowledge is pretty lacking!

Cheers.
@midnight_rider avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
09 GTS (sold) 2014 NC700XD
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Location: Charlotte, NC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@midnight_rider avatar
09 GTS (sold) 2014 NC700XD
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Location: Charlotte, NC
UTC quote
It's the vespa badge on the rear of the transmission, to the left of the rear wheel.

Use a screwdriver to "pry" it off.
@fatmanscoot avatar
UTC

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Il Porco (GTS125ie)
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@fatmanscoot avatar
Il Porco (GTS125ie)
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UTC quote
I get clutch judder all the time. It was bad, and I didn't yet know what it was, so I asked the dealer to look at it. He fixed it. It came back.

Now its better but I still get it from time to time, especially when wet.

I cant believe there isn't a permanent fix for this.

What about fitting an after market clutch?

Like this one:

http://www.vespaspares.co.uk/spares/partImage.asp?GPN=Z%5BU79%3E57%3A&uid=0

Anybody got any experience with that, or others?
@scooter_happy avatar
UTC

Member
GTS 250ie
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Location: sandy springs GA
 
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@scooter_happy avatar
GTS 250ie
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Posts: 40
Location: sandy springs GA
UTC quote
Brakleen - it's not just for your Vespa...
If you own a lawnmower, edger, any kind of motorized equipment, you can clean the hell out it with Brakleen. I mean clean to the point where it looks brand new. Just make sure you use it outside and watch the mess doesn't get all over.
UTC

Member
GT200
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Location: Avon MA
 
Member
GT200
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Posts: 16
Location: Avon MA
UTC quote
fatmanscoot wrote:
I get clutch judder all the time. It was bad, and I didn't yet know what it was, so I asked the dealer to look at it. He fixed it. It came back.

Now its better but I still get it from time to time, especially when wet.

I cant believe there isn't a permanent fix for this.

What about fitting an after market clutch?

Like this one:

http://www.vespaspares.co.uk/spares/partImage.asp?GPN=Z%5BU79%3E57%3A&uid=0

Anybody got any experience with that, or others?
Here is something in the US. Dr. Pully or Union Material seems to make good stuff.
http://www.buggypartsnw.com/home?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=453&category_id=37&keyword=vespa
It would appear they make them for the GT200
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
@lazybones avatar
UTC

Hooked
-----2006 LX 150-----
Joined: UTC
Posts: 353
Location: The SGV
 
Hooked
@lazybones avatar
-----2006 LX 150-----
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Location: The SGV
UTC quote
Shut up shudder!
I was going to blast some of that Brakleen you guys rave so much about
but not sure in which holes. Does it matter which ones?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@jimc avatar
UTC

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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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UTC quote
Very temporary solution. Far better to remove the transmission cover and clean up the clutch bell and clutch shoes with a Scotchbrite - and clean up any other debris in there. Doesn't take long - did all that with a belt change this pm on K's LX - got rid of the dreaded Malossi belt in the process, which seemed to have been the culprit for all the 'dust'.

Kept the Malossi everything else, they do no harm, and the OEM rollers can't be effectively retrofitted to a Malossi variator anyway - a different (smaller, OEM) diameter by 1.2mm.
UTC

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GT 200
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Location: Eugene, Oregon
 
Enthusiast
GT 200
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Location: Eugene, Oregon
UTC quote
Jim is right, Brakleen is temporary. But then again back when I was still having this problem so was removing the drum and scowering the drum and pads. The scower job lasted only slightly longer than the Brakeleen solution. The problem finally went away but it wasn't too long after the last application of Brakleen.
@jimc avatar
UTC

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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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UTC quote
I should have added:

Besides cleaning the clutch and shoes, the whole of the inside of the transmission case should be brushed clean of any dust and debris - as removing the outer case and replacing it will inevitably disturb all that, which wiil then wind up stuck on the clutch shoes again. If near to a belt-change time, it's worth considering changing that as well (assuming you're not paying an exorbitant amount for belts).
⬆️    About 5 months elapsed    ⬇️
@nathanielsalzman avatar
UTC

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Vespa GT 200L
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Location: St. Paul, MN
 
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@nathanielsalzman avatar
Vespa GT 200L
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Location: St. Paul, MN
UTC quote
I used 3M brake cleaner on the clutch of my Elite 250 and it sorted that shudder right out. Such an easy fix. Thanks for sharing this remedy.
⬆️    About 9 months elapsed    ⬇️
@arky avatar
UTC

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2012 GTV 300
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Location: Houston, TX - rural 'burbs
 
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@arky avatar
2012 GTV 300
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UTC quote
NathanielSalzman wrote:
I used 3M brake cleaner on the clutch of my Elite 250 and it sorted that shudder right out. Such an easy fix. Thanks for sharing this remedy.
New member/owner here, first post.

I'm thinking any ol' brake/caliper cleaner should work for this. Searching eBay, looks like Permatex, Mopar, Gunk, 3M, Dupli-Color all make a brake/caliper cleaner. I have a GTV300 with less than 200 miles on it and it has developed a slight shudder on "unquick" take-offs. I just ordered a can of the Permatex (non-chlorinated) and will give it a go. I think I will blow it out first with my air compressor and then apply the Permatex.

Since I live 40 miles from my dealer and have (as of now) no trailer/scooter carrier, I plan on doing a lot of the maintenance myself. I came across this video on Youtube which explains a lot about the belt drive, clutch and variator (lengthy @ 25 minutes).

@nathanielsalzman avatar
UTC

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Vespa GT 200L
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Location: St. Paul, MN
 
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@nathanielsalzman avatar
Vespa GT 200L
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UTC quote
Hey Arky,

Just so you know, the brake cleaner was only a temporary fix for my bike. If all your clutch needs is to have some of the crud cleaned out of it, then that'll do the trick, but if the pads are scorched, no amount of brake cleaner will ever make them right again. I had to pull my clutch apart and replace the pads (shoes, weights, whatever they may be called on your bike). It's not that hard a job, except that I had to fabricate a simple tool to hold the tension of the contra spring while I took the main nut off. Actually, that was the other challenge - finding a wrench big enough to actually engage the huge nut on my clutch. Not too bad if you're handy. Just be careful, there's a LOT of energy in there. I'd also recommend replacing the retaining springs and other wear-out parts while you're in there if you do open up the clutch. Save yourself some future hassle.
@arky avatar
UTC

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2012 GTV 300
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Location: Houston, TX - rural 'burbs
 
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@arky avatar
2012 GTV 300
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UTC quote
Thanks, Nate.

Seems as though there is a bushing/spacer dealie in the variator (video above) that can get grimey and contribute to this problem. All these Scooterwest videos are excellent - love learning how to work on my new scooter..... (not affiliated with SW )
@davecsparty avatar
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UTC quote
I had trouble w/ the this a lot on my old LX. I used Brakleen for about two years until I had enough and took it to a shop to resurface the clutch bell. Cost about $40 total and it was worth every single penny.
@arky avatar
UTC

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2012 GTV 300
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@arky avatar
2012 GTV 300
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UTC quote
So, I think the consensus here is that there is no consensus. Looks like a shudder problem can be unique for each scooter....

For some brake cleaner fixes the shudder problem, some need a few applications of the brake cleaner before it is fixed, on some brake cleaner was not the long term answer (variator issue, clutch drum issue)...
UTC

Hooked
2008 LX 190 Nero Grafite (Sold) 2015 Moto Guzzi V7II Special
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Posts: 327
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Hooked
2008 LX 190 Nero Grafite (Sold) 2015 Moto Guzzi V7II Special
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Posts: 327
Location: Sydney, Australia
UTC quote
.....or get a Dr Pulley HiT clutch. No clutch judder, no slippage, no increasing revs and then waiting for the back wheel to catch up. Just instant acceleration and gobs of torque across the rev range.

And no, I have no affiliation, I just love my HiT Clutch!
@gtsyph avatar
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GTS 125
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Location: West London
 
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@gtsyph avatar
GTS 125
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UTC quote
Took the chrome cap off and sprayed brake cleaner into the transmission case this morning - one of the best things I've ever done to my GTS!

Immediately noticed the difference on my way to work this morning. No more jolting and shuddering when pulling out of junctions... it was bliss. Silky smooth acceleration all the way.

Couldn't find any Brakleen in the UK - costs around £50 per can to import it

I had a can of Muc-Off Re-Hydrating Disc Brake Cleaner lying around so blasted a generous amount onto the clutch with the engine running. You can pick one up from Hfords for about £6 but I'm guessing any brake cleaner works.

Not sure how long until the strangled sea lion makes another appearance, but I'll be ready!
⬆️    About 5 months elapsed    ⬇️
@blue_beastie avatar
UTC

Hooked
1985 Honda Aero NH80 (blue, upjetted), 2006 Vespa GT200 (vintage green)
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Posts: 161
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
 
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@blue_beastie avatar
1985 Honda Aero NH80 (blue, upjetted), 2006 Vespa GT200 (vintage green)
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
UTC quote
Having very humid weather here in NS at the moment and went for a longish ride with pillion with some stop starts. By end of ride very grindy! I've had grinding before but today really had me worried. Thanks for the great info!
@virtuahead avatar
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GTS 250ie
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Location: New Hampshire
 
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@virtuahead avatar
GTS 250ie
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Location: New Hampshire
UTC quote
GTSyph wrote:
Took the chrome cap off and sprayed brake cleaner into the transmission case this morning - one of the best things I've ever done to my GTS!

Immediately noticed the difference on my way to work this morning. No more jolting and shuddering when pulling out of junctions... it was bliss. Silky smooth acceleration all the way.

Couldn't find any Brakleen in the UK - costs around £50 per can to import it

I had a can of Muc-Off Re-Hydrating Disc Brake Cleaner lying around so blasted a generous amount onto the clutch with the engine running. You can pick one up from Hfords for about £6 but I'm guessing any brake cleaner works.

Not sure how long until the strangled sea lion makes another appearance, but I'll be ready!
Same thing here! I took the clutch out, checked the belt, cleaned the bell, nothing was fixing my GTS. Sounded like it was falling apart at stop lights. Sprayed some brakleen in there this weekend, and it is like new! Thrilled with the result.
@tsuma avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
Pearl ET2, Black GTS 250ie
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Location: Houston, Texas
 
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@tsuma avatar
Pearl ET2, Black GTS 250ie
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UTC quote
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
⬆️    About 9 months elapsed    ⬇️
@scootertx avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
Vespa S150ie
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Location: Houston
 
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@scootertx avatar
Vespa S150ie
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Location: Houston
UTC quote
Is it bad?
So, mine does the grindy thing. It sometimes feel like there is sand in the bearings (at least to my absolutely knowledge-less self). Is it bad? Hurting anything? Or, just a nuisance. I'll admit that I thought my new modern Vespa would be smooth as silk. I have 4000 miles and smooth as silk rarely happens. Perhaps I just don't know what is "normal" or perhaps there is a wide range of "normal?"
⬆️    About 3 months elapsed    ⬇️
@matt6974 avatar
UTC

Hooked
Yamaha MT-07
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Location: London
 
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@matt6974 avatar
Yamaha MT-07
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UTC quote
Just resurrecting an old thread since my GTS has started grumbling and I have some brake cleaner handy.

But what I don't understand is where is the clutch dust supposed to exit in normal operation? Not through these holes covered by the silver badge I presume? Does leaving the cover off help?
@hachi avatar
UTC

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2005 GT 200
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Location: Montgomery,Alabama
 
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@hachi avatar
2005 GT 200
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Posts: 2083
Location: Montgomery,Alabama
UTC quote
matt6974 wrote:
Just resurrecting an old thread since my GTS has started grumbling and I have some brake cleaner handy.

But what I don't understand is where is the clutch dust supposed to exit in normal operation? Not through these holes covered by the silver badge I presume? Does leaving the cover off help?
I am not a fan of spraying brake cleaner indiscriminately into the transmission housing. I use compressed air from a compressor. Better yet pull the transmission cover and blow it out thoroughly and clean and de-glaze the clutch bell and "shoes". There is an exit hole at the rear of the transmission cover up underneath. I posted some pictures on this thread:

She's growling at me!
@matt6974 avatar
UTC

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Yamaha MT-07
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Location: London
 
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@matt6974 avatar
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Location: London
UTC quote
Thanks Hachi
I'll give compressed air a try first
@lx125man avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa LX 125
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Location: UK
 
Molto Verboso
@lx125man avatar
Vespa LX 125
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Posts: 1204
Location: UK
UTC quote
I tried cleaner and air before finally getting the cover off and cleaning it all properly.

Lasts a good while if you clean up the clutch shoes and bell properly.
@matt6974 avatar
UTC

Hooked
Yamaha MT-07
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@matt6974 avatar
Yamaha MT-07
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Location: London
UTC quote
I went with lazy option and sprayed some brake/clutch cleaner through the holes using a long tube into the clutch - it removed a lot of the dust but the problem remains so I expect the clutch is glazed and I need to do a proper job and take it apart <sigh>

Daft question perhaps but what is the best way of de-glazing the clutch pads/bell? Is wire-wool and sandpaper ok or is there a more scientific approach? cheers
@jimc avatar
UTC

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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
I find a green scouring Scotchbrite pad works best. I cut them into four, which makes them both last longer and easier to use on small areas. <<< Also a good home economics tip.
@matt6974 avatar
UTC

Hooked
Yamaha MT-07
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Location: London
 
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@matt6974 avatar
Yamaha MT-07
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UTC quote
Cheers Jim
I'll see if the local DIY stores have em in stock
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 43211
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
matt6974 wrote:
Cheers Jim
I'll see if the local DIY stores have em in stock
They're sold in every supermarket as well.

Don't buy cheaper 'own brand' ones - they tend not to be as abrasive or last as long.
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