Modern Vespa

Hey
I'm pretty lacking in proper terminology, but I suppose some post out there has all the info I need and someone can point me in the right direction. Here it is:
I went to start up the other day and something sounded like it popped or snapped. Now it only spins when trying to start. You know like "eeeeeee" instead of "chiga chiga chiga froooom"
Get it?
I'm good at following take apart, replace, put together instructions. So hopefully it's somewhere posted here. I just cant seem to find it in the search engine.
Any help?

Does your LX have a kickstarter? If so, what happens when you use it (carefully!)?

Either the "bendix" in the starter is hanging up and not letting the small gear on the shaft engage the flywheel to start the scooter....or the spring on the shaft in the starter has broken.
You'll either have to remove the starter or take it to a dealer.

I have had success in the past with other machines that had this problem by tapping lightly on the starter with a rubber hammer. If the bendix is simply stuck, it is possible to free it so it will work properly (or at least enough to let you get it started so you can ride it to a mechanic if you can't fix it yourself).

Sometimes when a battery is on the way out the starter can fail to engage properly. This may not be that because of the pop or snap that you describe, but I'd throw it on a charger just to be sure.

good luck

Okay

I've got the charger on now so we will see what happens

Sometimes the bendix will get "sticky" and not fully extend to the gear.

If that's the case, you'll have to remove the variator to access the bendix drive.

But, like you're doing, check the battery first.

If your LX is an older model, with a 9 volt, it might be a good idea to get yourself a 12 volt battery (like a YTX12bs, which come standard in my LX150).

If a full charge on the battery doesn't help and the Bendix is fine, check the starter relay. Mine crapped out on my ET4 and exhibited the same spinspinspin-no start symptom. It actually got stuck spinning on one attempt. I had to disconnect the wire going to the starter, to ride it. Ended up cracking the case, kickstarting it. 9 volt? My wife's first LX ('06, bought in '05) had a 12 volt, as did my even older ET.

Mine is a 2005 and I have a Fairly new YTX12bs battery, so I dont think its that.
As you see in the picture Ive opened up the side and can see what is not engaging. Is the bendix drive somewhere else?

try rolling your bike back about 10 feet. not sure why but i had the same issue and moving the bike worked.

Ok
I'll try rolling the bike back 10 feet.
By the way is it unsafe to try to start it with the side off like I have?

No help. The actual problem may be the starter motor. Is there any way anyone knows to tell if its bad? I am guessing that the spring on the shaft in the starter has broken. ie. the snapping sound.Where would I find the part for purchase(cant seem to online) Ooo look I just found one http://www.athensscooterco.com/eshopprod_cat_4797-48549-48406_product_603242.113_STARTER_MOTOR.htm Holy smokes $271 ? Am I having a conversation with myself? I'm quoting me. Huh...

Grab the bendix gear (no key in ignition, please), and twist it a little with your fingers. If it's stuck, this might help. If not, the starter might be weak. Also check the wires from the starter motor and see if there are any loose connections.

I had a similar problem with my starter on my ET4. It turned out to be the starter. I pulled the starter, two bolts and one wire, and took it to an auto electrical shop in Puerto Vallarta, where I live in the winter. They replaced the brushes and it worked fine. Total cost, about $18. If you can find an auto electrical shop near you I would suggest you take it out and have them test it. Even though it might spin it may not be getting enough power to engage the bendix. A new starter is very expensive so I would take this one out and get it tested at an auto electric shop.

Great suggestions, thanks. I found someone with a used one for $180 if all else fails. Right now i have a stripped bolt to deal with in trying to remove it. URRRGGGGG!!!

Update:
I almost cried yesterday, but the tears don't come anymore.
I took out the old starter after finally getting the stripped bolt off. Bought the used one for $180 , replaced it, put all that stuff back on that I had to remove to get to that bolt, lowered the scooter off the stand, went to start, and the same thing . Spinnnnnn, well more like grindddddd.

OK
Could it be anything other than replacing the bendix?????
Im not going to spend any more money!!!!

I have seen this several times. Take it to yopur dealer the started bendix was assembled with the wronge greas at the factory witch causes it to stick, i.e. not spin. If you replace the started bendix problem solved. Piaggio knows about this by the way. Question is it worse in the morning when it's cold? Good luck

mistermall
Sorry to hear about your starter problem, I have been lucky to not have any major problems with my 2006 LX150 yet. I am curious about the starter motor and the bendix... When you removed the starter did the bendix gear just stay in place? and how does the starter motor connect to the bendix? I got a good idea about where the bendix is now from the picture, and wonder if you took any pictures of the starter motor area with and without the starter in place. I thinkthose pictures would really help other LX150 owners as well as myself. 8) I really hope you can get this worked out. I ride my LX150 to work everyday. I would hate to have to go back to a cage till I fixed it...

Just to clarify the battery issue...I believe the first year the LX150 was introduced 2006 the battery was a 12 volt, but for some reason the amperage (?) may have been deficient hence in other postings reference was made to upgrade.

I would still take the starter to an auto electric shop and have it tested. You never know the condition of the used unit, it could be bad too. If the starter doesn't engage the bendix then it is not coming out far enough. Take it to an auto electric shop and have them test it, or come down to Puerto Vallarta and I will take you to mine..........Good luck and let us know when you get it fixed.

A marginal electrical connection anywhere in the starter circuit (including the contacts in the starter relay) can cause a voltage drop that would keep the starter motor from seeing the voltage that it was designed for. That could make the motor sluggish, without enough oomph to push the Bendix out to engage the ring gear.

You might try cleaning up all your connections... from the battery to the relay to the starter, and the ground as well.

Ok
So I havent had time to update but I have a little now.
I bought a newish used starter and after getting that stripped screw off the old one (for crying out loud) I installed it and guess what? Nothing. No change at all, just spinning. OH man. So I did a search and it finds out the previous owner of my bike had once replaced the Bendix. I should have asked him, but you know how it looks to ask a previous owner details about the vehicle you bought from him long ago. I would think "dude its your bike now, just figure it out" Not that he would say that cause he's a real nice guy, but anyway. I concluded after inspecting the bendix that it was all siezed up. I found one place online from England and had it shipped to my home. I thought while I was at it I'd replace the rollers so I placed an order from our friends at scooterwest.com, who by the way ship amazingly fast and I began my learning experience. Step by step removal of the belt and rollers wasn't difficult, it was the reinstall. The whole thing about getting the belt on just right by separating the clutch from the half pulley and torqing the bolt on the variator correctly is VERY important. Well I did it wrong the first time. Yes I started it up, it sounded good, I drove it around, then I heard a scream coming from my left side. I thought it was a crotch rocket coming up next to me, but no it was my bike screaming in pain. I pulled over, but I had no tools so I walked it home. 15 blocks in the California sun was a nice workout. Once I got it home I prayed heavily that nothing inside was damaged. I was afraid to look, but fortunately it looked all good. Whew!
So I bought a torque wrench (the good kind) some locktight and did it all right, after extensive information search and re-search. So I did it! It's done, a close call, but its done. I spent a bit of money and now have a perfectly good starter that I need to sell, but I learned alot about my bike and any future bike to come. Thanks to all the info on this site and greasy in particular. [/b]

Thanks for the update glad you figured it out. I will keep you in mind if I need a starter from my ET4's, never know when I will need one since I have two.

Just curious because I had this problem on my ET150 (none of the mechanics I took it to knew what the problem was or how to fix it) and now I have an intermittant problem with my GT200. It is always worse in the mornings and when it is cold.

I noticed from the previous posts that the issue is related to the/a bendix? I have no idea what that is and how it relates to starting my Vespa. Can anyone give me a non-technical description and some idea of how to fix it? As the GT is still under warranty should I expect my Garage to fix it?

Cheers,
Mim

Okay, I just found one for sale on http://www.myscooterparts.co.uk/auto-scooter-parts-and-accessories/starter%20components/0/0/vespa-gt-200/ I think I will talk to my garage about getting it replaced.

Hey
If you look at the picture I posted up top with the caption "not engaging just spinning" that is the bedix

Many thanks!!

HOW TO REMOVE BENDIX PROPERLY?
any information online ?
My GT 200 starter spinning but not starting after a one pop sound

thanks

I managed to solve my issue - so I thought I would share.

I had the exact described problem on my Vespa ET4 50cc . Starter spins beautifully, but the bike doesn't try to start i.e. the Starter is not engaging with the motor. In fact for a while it was intermittent - would start after maybe 20 or 30 spins... eventually never engaged at all.

At first I dug the starter out - but realised that the starter has no parts that engage / move (other than spinning as a motor should) So I discovered that there is a separate bendix that the starter motor spins. When the bendix is spun (by the starter motor), due to the rotation, it moves outwards and engages with the motor gear - this then starts the motor.

So assuming - that the starter is spinning well - it's not the starter motor that is the problem. It is the bendix. It is relatively easy to access the bendix...perhaps easier than getting to the starter motor!

I followed this video - to open up the side of the motor:
Once you have the variator out - the bendix just comes out by hand.

Mine was totally shot. See attached image. Buy a new one for ~£10 and enjoy!

Hi everyone, I have just pulled the carburetor off my 2003 gt200 to change the bendix and I have stripped the bottom bolt nut on the starter motor, jeez, it's so awkward to get to I haven't a clue what to do to fix, any ideas from this great forum? Also, 1 other question, in order to free the engaged bendix I had to crank the engine with a spanner and it turned, but sounded like it was gritty, and labored, I'm wondering if it should be turning at all with the spark plug in place? Bought as a non- runner by the way

Why are you even touching the starter motor?

To get to the bendix you just open the transmission case, remove the belt and variator and lift the bendix out.