Modern Vespa

I just bought my first scooter 3 days ago. It's a '59 Allstate Super Cruisaire (788.94494). It's got a new motor and runs like a champ, but I have a good bit of restoration work ahead of me.
I am completely new to all of this. and am looking to get adivse on my scooter. I know the basic history of it (Sears), etc. What I am looking for is information on my model, and reputable places to get parts. When I look at online parts inventories, it's typically listed by scooter model, and mine never seems to be listed. It is my understanding that the Cruisaire is synonymous with the Vespa VNA; is this correct?
For example, I need to buy a new seat for it. Where can I go to get information on what size seat will fit my scooter? Is there somewhere that I can download/buy a manual on the Cruiseaire?
Also, I can find bits of info on the Cruiseaire, but nothing specifically on the Super Cruisaire. What's different between the two?
I want to learn as much as I can about my Allstate.

you have to show us pictures.none of us here know how or like to read.

Welcome to NSMV

Post some pictures of your Allstate so we can get a good look at what you got.

I'm at work, I'll take some pictures when I get home.

If it's the 1959, you've got a rotary inducted engine, which is good. The 1958 was piston ported, which made it basically impossible to upgrade.

Yours can be hopped up to make it much more rideable, though.

It's an ultra-common bike, and compatible with pretty much every VNB / VBB / Allstate they made from 1959-1966. Your parts are all the same, give or take a trim piece or different shaped speedo.

Moreover, they continued to make your bike style in India into the 70's, so there's no shortage of parts for that bike.

thats not fair,teasing us already,he don't know us very well do he

Oh ... and the Allstate, the "Crusaire" and "Super Crusaire" are all just marketing terms.

On some of the wideframes the Allstate badge on the front actually had a matching badge on the back that said "Super Cruisaire" on it. It is just some words that Sears applied for marketing's sake. There is nothing "super" about that bike, in any way. It was the most stripped down, gutless, cheapo vespa they ever made.

Sears basically dictated to Vespa that they would sell them in their stores, but they had to cost less than XXX.. I don't what that cost was. Maybe $50... maybe $150. To accommodate the request, Vespa got rid of all aluminum trim, and the front damper ( how much could that part POSSIBLY cost??? ) ...which makes it have a TERRIBLE front suspension, frequently compared to a pogo stick.

Things like the speedo became an optional accessory you could buy, rather than included in the bike.

So, as you can see ... affixing that marketing label was probably Sears way of combating the fact it was the most bargain basement scooter you could buy before getting a moped.

They didn't come with a speedo? So you would just ride around with a freaking big ole hole in your headset?!

No, it came with a blanking plate, which was basically a piece of plastic that matched the color of the bike, with a big Piaggio logo in the center and a gasket around it so it would stay in the hole.

I had one but i sold it. Gimme a sec and i'll find the pic.

Really?! Where did you get it? Was it worth anything?

Here..

There's the stock blanking plate that came default with an allstate sitting on the headset above the optional speedo you could buy in 1958.

Yeah, they are worth something. I can't remember how much but i seem to remember it costing almost as much as the speedo, since most people lost them or threw them away... not many have survived.

Regarding the engine, as I said, the friend that I bought it from replaced the engine with a brand new one. Strangely enough, they say that it's a single stroke engine, and the scooter went from being a 3-speed to a 4-speed. They also had a front damper installed. As far as I can tell, all of the work that I need to do it cosmetic. I want to eventually get a paint job, and hopefully add some trim.
Again, I'll post some pictures as soon as I can, so that you guys can get an idea of what I'm working with. I can't stress enough that I am ignorant to all of this. I don't know crap about parts, and have a lot to learn. That's why I came here for guidance.

Mine has that same speedo, but it doesn't work. Is there a diagram or something that I can use to see if it's connected?

That is very cool..def something you don't get to see everyday. Didn't the Allstate go for like 300 or 400 bucks at the time? I'm wondering what the cost was for Piaggio to make these things..

So, good thing about going from 3 to 4 speed. That's a big upgrade, as well as the suspension upgrade. Both necessary things for this bike.

I'm curious what engine they put in. On the side of it will be stamped a VIN number ... it will say something like VLB1M or VSB1M or VNA1M or something like that. There will be 3 prefix digits beginning with V, then a number for the revision of the engine, then the letter M to signify it's a motor VIN.

You have a 2-stroke engine, though. There's no such thing as a 1-stroke engine. There's either 2-stroke, 4-stroke, Diesel, Wankel, etc.

2 Stroke means that every single time the piston goes forward, there's a power stroke ( where the spark plug creates an explosion and the expansion of gasses force back the piston, creating the power ). Compare this to a 4-stroke engine, that has valves, and has 1 power stroke, then wastes it's next stroke in order to expel the exhaust gases and bring in a fresh charge of gas / air to be burnt. ( valves open and close to facilitate this process )

On any vespa, the thing that drives the speedo is basically a speedo drive cable that spins at a rate relative to the front wheel. A little square-shaped segment at both ends of the cable plug it in to the drive gear down on the front axle, and again to the back of the speedo.

What normally happens is that

1) Either the thin, spinning, inner cable section has snapped and you need to replace it and it will work fine

2) The outer is too long at the bottom of the speedo cable, and needs to be shortened up about .5 cm. Once you do this, the inner sticks further in to the speedo drive gear and a solid connection is made ...and once again it spins with the wheel.

One of those two solutions will fix 99% of your speedo problems. The last 1% are due to the actual spring in your speedo breaking, and it being mechanically inoperable. At this point, you send it off to www.speedoking.com, pay $100, and he repairs it and sends it back to you. DO NOT buy a new speedo... just get yours fixed. It's far better to have the original speedo than some asian repop.

here are some pics!

no offense Eric... here in Indonesia is heaven for the Original stuff, you can find Original NOS with mint condition

when i take a dig at the quality of asian stuff, i'm basically referring to the ebay sellers, and street restorers who are doing stuff on the cheap.

You guys have made me realize that there's a great number of riders there who appreciate the original stuff just like we do, and pay top dollar for it.

I'm confident riding it now, and just drove it to work for the first time today! Holy crap it's fun. Now, I'm really looking forward to driving home.

FYI : you have the wrong taillight ( should be the allstate bar-shaped one ) and the wrong horn ( you've got an aftermarket shell horn, and you should have the black flower one, i believe )

like nyaw



and nyaw




Also, you're missing all your rubber floorstrips! You can buy a roll of that rubber, and just trim it to fit and press it into the aluminum channels.

-Eric

Last edited by Rover Eric on Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:33:01 +0000; edited 1 time

Sheesh Eric, he has a couple on one side! Have some coffee

Jet fender crest FTW!

Good looking scooter there man!

Get some rubber for those floor boards before you bend the channels. know a guy who dinged his all up and they were a pain to get the rubber into after that.

nice find

Is this the rubber that you're talking about?
http://www.scooterworks.com/Floorboard_Rubber_-_GS_P1197C543.cfm

Also, the first thing that I want to replace is the seat that is falling apart. Is this what I should be getting:
http://www.scooterworks.com/Seat_Single_Saddle-Sm_Frame_P2015.cfm
or is it this one:
http://www.scooterworks.com/Seat_Single_Saddle_-_Front_P2014.cfm
which then brings up the question; does my scooter qualify as "small frame" or not?

1) Don't buy a new whole seat. Keep yours, it's better and worth more. Just remove your cover and either replace with a QUALITY reproduction cover, or have like pirate upholstery make you one.

Please, please don't put a bajaj on one there. You can find people who are willing to sell you an original seat cover ( i just sold 3 of them ) that are in better condition than the one you have, do that. I just cringe when i see people with those aftermarket saddles on their otherwise original bike.


2) Both links you sent for floorstrip rubber was no good. You do NOT have a smallframe, you have a largeframe. Specifically you have a VNB / VBB style largeframe, so that's the type you're looking for. The GS160 largeframe is way too fat, and smallframe is way too thin.

Take a look at that last piece of floorstrip rubber you've got in there, and make sure it's the same as this. Specifically look at the number of ridges on the top.

http://www.scooterworks.com/Floorboard_Rubber_-_Late_Allst_P1141C543.cfm

Where can one find a "quality reproduction cover"? I'm assuming that I should stay away from ebay because it's probably full of knock-offs. Also, are there other forums that I should turn to as well to see if anyone has that seat?

Regarding the link to that floor rubber; I just went and took a look, and it looks like a match to me. I think I'll go ahead and order it, along with a Haynes manual (which has also been suggested to me).

You're in atlanta... i would call Gene @ Scooters Originali and ask him if he's got any really good saddle seat repops with the Aquila badge on the back of them, that look the real deal. If he doesn't have one, maybe motorsport does.

Failing that, i might ship that cover you've got to pirate upholstery and see how much that dude wants to make you a high quality repro.

I imagine SOMEONE sells a good repro cover, though. I don't remember the last time i had to source one out.

See what the seat on my bike pictured above looks like ? Black grab handle ...silver grommets around it, Aquila badge riveted to the back of it.

I just ordered some rubber, but unfortunately it looks like the channels are already dinged up.

Im no expert but I thought that protruding license plate holder meant its a VNA/VBA? Considering it has a front dampner, speedo and split headset makes me wonder if it was a VNA/VBA with an aftermarket Allstate badge on it?

The front dampner was installed by the person that I bought the scooter from.

The license plate holder on the front means nothing. Go back and look at photos of VNA's, and you'll find that many didn't have them.

My 1956 allstate didn't... my 1958 allstate didn't. It's all a function of what the state laws in the state the scooter was originally sold in was, as to whether someone has affixed a front license plate holder.

Yes, his was originally an allstate, and someone modified his front fork so it has a dampner now.

Also, yes, his bike is technically a VNA, but i think he'll find that any parts that were meant for a post 1958 allstate will fit it. If you go around saying VNA, people assume ( or, at least, i do ) a piston ported engine. I think he's got rotary inducted if it's a true 1959. Moreover, being that the VNB and VBB were more common models, ( and the parts will fit it ), it's just easier to say you're looking for parts to one of those.

Ahh, more helpful clarifications... This forum is great!

I wasnt sure if you were saying it just for parts but thought a clarification might be helpful.
I was actually referring to the plate holder on the back as the VNB/VBB had a flatter back frame that didn't require those little arms (again I defer to you) I never even heard of a front holder is that what that leg shield damage is from?

Ah, you're talking about the tail.

So, in 1962 they switched to the square tail, about half way through the year. Any bikes you see with a square tail were made post 1962. Bikes previous to that had to use the bracket in question.

So... there are Square Tail VNB's ( post 1962 ) and there's a year or two of round tail VNB's.

That's a surefire way to date a largeframe, incidentally - check out the tail.

Just watch out for Bajaj's. Indian frames continued to have round tails into the 70's. That's another way you can catch bodgers on ebay or whatever. If the bike is a round tail, and they are naming a production date of after 1962, it's either a bodge or it's a bajaj frame.

-Eric

Here is the original ad for the scoot: $319.95 off the showroom floor!

http://www.scooterlounge.com/Vespa/Sears/Sears.shtml

In atlanta you can call scooter parts direct:
(770) 457-5998 scooterpartsdirect.com
I've had much success and they're very knowledgeable and helpful!

-David

That is very cool. $319.95 bucks..was that like 1500 back in the day? I was wondering what was the actual cost of Piaggio to produce the scooter from the factory. So if Sears was selling them at 319.95..I was wondering what the MSRP was from the factory.

There's a great website to calculate inflation over time - www.dollartimes.com

$319.95 in 1959 had about the same buying power as $2,327.44 in 2009.
Annual inflation over this period was about 4.05%.

hahah..holy shit