OP
@dfndr avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
MP 3 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 53
Location: Fresno, Ca
 
Enthusiast
@dfndr avatar
MP 3 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 53
Location: Fresno, Ca
UTC quote
Are dealer shipping and prep fees necessary or legit? The great variance in the amount of these fees between different dealers makes you wonder if they are just arbitrary selected "added mark up". Seems like you have a right to expect your vehicle to be ready to go at the MSRP, or less, rather than paying an authorized dealer to "prep" it.

Will dealers waive these fees?

Thanks
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22822
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22822
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
yup fees everyone must pay fees. we all pay fees, even at car dealers, but the fees for setup are dependent on the dealer hourly rates and the shipping is normally what piaggio charges the dealer to send them the scoot. you could try and negotiate those out from the dealer.
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
UTC quote
it is all a play on numbers. If they advertised 5000 on road it just doesn't sound as cheap as 4500 plus on road costs. It is a little like accessories only you got have this one.
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
Re: Dealer Fees
dfndr wrote:
Are dealer shipping and prep fees necessary or legit? The great variance in the amount of these fees between different dealers makes you wonder if they are just arbitrary selected "added mark up". Seems like you have a right to expect your vehicle to be ready to go at the MSRP, or less, rather than paying an authorized dealer to "prep" it.

Will dealers waive these fees?

Thanks
I'm no dealer, but there are too many differences between the prices of dealers which tells me it is BS and profit for the most part. Prepping takes an hour... to two hours depending... and shipping a vespa around the world only costs $450 here in Europe, Asia and Australia. So figure $550 total at most.

The best thing to do is to find the best deal anywhere you can and then go to your dealer and ask them to match the same price.

Others will tell you this won't happen... but I know you can since I have bought three Vespas and my BVC in the last couple years using this same technique. When I told people what I paid, they didn't believe until I actually posted the invoice.

Yes, dealers need to make a profit... but the philosophy in this neck of the woods is to get customers by giving great prices and keeping them happy while continuing to make money through periodic service.

Too many people and dealers of all type businesses try to make a big profit off the few customers they have. Better to make a little profit and have a nice collection of satisfied customers imho
UTC

Hooked
'08 Siena Ivory LXV
Joined: UTC
Posts: 336
Location: New York
 
Hooked
'08 Siena Ivory LXV
Joined: UTC
Posts: 336
Location: New York
UTC quote
When I was shopping for scooters in SoCal, the local dealers all charged different preps - the low was $100+ and the high was $600.

So yes they are different, whether it's legal to charge it yes, but just remember they can charge whatever they want as long as someone is willing to pay for it.
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
Moderator
@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
Re: Dealer Fees
Lifer wrote:
Others will tell you this won't happen... but I know you can since I have bought three Vespas and my BVC in the last couple years using this same technique. When I told people what I paid, they didn't believe until I actually posted the invoice.

Yes, dealers need to make a profit... but the philosophy in this neck of the woods is to get customers by giving great prices and keeping them happy while continuing to make money through periodic service.
Lifer-

Are you talking about purchases in Germany or the US? the practices in the US are very different from those in the US. MSRP is a "real" MSRP in Europe. That's the most you would pay for a new Vespa, other than registration fees paid to your local government.

In the US, all vehicles, including automobiles are subject to delivery, destination and set up fees. "Sticker Price" for autos is not just MSRP, but MSRP plus fees.

Consider this from the US Federal Trade Commission:

Here are some terms you may hear when you're talking price.Invoice Price is the manufacturer's initial charge to the dealer. This usually is higher than the dealer's final cost because dealers receive rebates, allowances, discounts, and incentive awards. Generally, the invoice price should include freight (also known as destination and delivery). If you're buying a car based on the invoice price (for example, "at invoice," "$100 below invoice," "two percent above invoice") and if freight is already included, make sure freight isn't added again to the sales contract.

* Base Price is the cost of the car without options, but includes standard equipment and factory warranty. This price is printed on the Monroney sticker.
* Monroney Sticker Price (MSRP) shows the base price, the manufacturer's installed options with the manufacturer's suggested retail price, the manufacturer's transportation charge, and the fuel economy (mileage). Affixed to the car window, this label is required by federal law, and may be removed only by the purchaser.
* Dealer Sticker Price, usually on a supplemental sticker, is the Monroney sticker price plus the suggested retail price of dealer-installed options, such as additional dealer markup (ADM) or additional dealer profit (ADP), dealer preparation, and undercoating.


Note that transportation charges and dealer prep are over and above MSRP.


Al
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
@ Al:

We have 19% sales tax... no import tax from Italy, but freight charges

Labor costs in Europe are much higher then in the US

I didn't see where a scooter should cost more in the US than in Europe because the US doesn't have 19% sales tax

I mean, you can buy a Mercedes in the USA cheaper then I can buy the same car in Germany... and it is made here

I think US dealers take advantage of the situation. Not all... but some

Just my opinion...

I can buy a GTS 300 all day long for 4500 Euros ($6300) that includes the freight, dealer prep, and sales tax

What do they cost in the states?

$6200 is the MSRP plus dealer prep $100 and freight $450

So... can you buy a GTS Super for $6850?

No... I just looked - I saw someone in the US post that they spent $7600 out the door in April

Sure... we have dealers that won't budge off the price... so people either pay sticker or they don't get a scooter

But then again, they don't sell very many scooters
UTC

Hooked
PX, 1960 150, scrap heaps
Joined: UTC
Posts: 118
Location: Indianapolis
 
Hooked
PX, 1960 150, scrap heaps
Joined: UTC
Posts: 118
Location: Indianapolis
UTC quote
Locally (Indianapolis), there is one dedicated scooter shop. There are three car dealers that sell Vespas. Sandman is the local car dealer that does a good job with Vespas. The other two should leave Vespa ashamed for allowing them to sell their scooters. They do a horrible job.

What often happens is the clueless car dealers sell cheap. They are overstocked on scooters so they sell without charging set up or shipping They do not have to make money off of scooters. They got lots of cars to make their money off of.

The trouble is that these dealers are COMPLETELY CLUELESS when it comes to scooters. They do not even ride. They do nothing to support the local scooter community. They do not lobby for better laws. They do not support the local rally. They do not bust their ass to pick up a wrecked scooter when someone goes down. They do shrug when something goes wrong. Usually sending people to the real scooter store.

So you want to save $150.00? Go ahead and shop for the best deal. But when the place with the best deal can not help you, don't you dare walk into a real scooter shop and act like you should be treated like royalty. I have watched as people have walked into the local shop asking for help because the Ford dealer they bought their scooter from can not help them. Why did they buy from the Ford dealer? To save $50.00.


My understanding is that the mark up on new Vespas is about seven percent. A very small margin. If a dealer does not charge additional fees, they will not make much if any money on a scooter. By comparison, Genuine and Kymco allow for a more generous profit margins.


In the end having a local shooter shop that is thriving and supports me is worth paying a fair price. I know enough to understand that the shipping and prep is part of the deal.
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
UTC quote
Lifer wrote:
@ Al:

We have 19% sales tax... no import tax from Italy, but freight charges

Labor costs in Europe are much higher then in the US

I didn't see where a scooter should cost more in the US than in Europe because the US doesn't have 19% sales tax

I mean, you can buy a Mercedes in the USA cheaper then I can buy the same car in Germany... and it is made here

I think US dealers take advantage of the situation. Not all... but some

Just my opinion...

I can buy a GTS 300 all day long for 4500 Euros ($6300) that includes the freight, dealer prep, and sales tax

What do they cost in the states?

$6200 is the MSRP plus dealer prep $100 and freight $450

So... can you buy a GTS Super for $6850?

No... I just looked - I saw someone in the US post that they spent $7600 out the door in April

Sure... we have dealers that won't budge off the price... so people either pay sticker or they don't get a scooter

But then again, they don't sell very many scooters
Dealers in US get charged shipping over the price of the scooter, that gets passed on to the buyer, that's not negotiable, it will be in the price of the scooter somewhere.

They also charge a dealer set up fee, which is for getting the scooter road ready. This fee is over priced by every motorcycle, scooter and car dealer in the US, but they have the right to ask for it, just as you have the right to negotiate it.

Then add state tax on top of that, luckily in Va it's only 2%

Wayne B
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
Well Wayne, using your example, they should charge $6199 for the scooter, $100 for the prep, and $126 for tax = $6425

But they don't

The sell for what?

$7600?

AL - You kinda got me off topic there and I lost my train of thought - The point I was trying to make was that potential buyers should shop around, find a good deal, and use that as leverage to get local dealers to sell at a fair price.

BTW - There are some credit unions that will give you the information what a car or scooter should cost based on invoice prices. Interestingly, in Texas, you can buy a car for $200 over invoice.

@ the rest of you - If you are not interested in saving money and don't care what a dealer charges just so long as the price is affordable to you, then by all means spend your money. The Vespa is already over priced for what it is. On the other hand, in this terrible economy, people want the best (perceived or real), but more importantly need to get value for money. I just disagree with business people that charge an arm and a leg when other dealers don't do it.

@ Apple - I would buy the scooter at Ford and have it serviced at the other dealer - no problem. I'm sure the service department is a profit center and they won't turn me away. I did the same thing here - Bought the BVC and the GTS from another dealer than does my service. I asked my service guys if they had a problem with that, and the answer was that they were happy to have my business. I don't act like a king... I just book service and pay the prices they ask when it comes to service. These guys were the first to sell Vespas in Germany way back when. They are still in business even though customers like me will put the pressure on to discount.. or buy elsewhere and get my service there.

There is no disgrace in trying to save money
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22822
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22822
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
Lifer wrote:
@ the rest of you - If you are not interested in saving money and don't care what a dealer charges just so long as the price is affordable to you, then by all means spend your money. The Vespa is already over priced for what it is.
why do you own a vespa if it is so over priced?
just get a chinese scoot and save yourself the big $$$$$$$$
UTC

Hooked
2007 GTS250ie Silver, 2008 Vespa S White (deceased)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 177
Location: Toronto, ON
 
Hooked
2007 GTS250ie Silver, 2008 Vespa S White (deceased)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 177
Location: Toronto, ON
UTC quote
The reason why the dealer prep and freight charges are not automatically included in teh MSRP is because MSRP are set by Piaggio and do not include thpse fee's. If a dealership want to advertise MSRP they cannot include those fee's or the amount would be incorrect. Like what has been said before Freight charges are charges passed on a seperate charge to the buyer because they are a seperate from the distributor. Prep and registration can vary because of the differing costs the dealer has to pay for their services to be done. Go to any car delaership and look at the sticker on the window and you will see much more in the ways of fee's than if you were to buy a scooter.
@the_scootin_scott avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 241
Location: Athens, GA
 
Hooked
@the_scootin_scott avatar
GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 241
Location: Athens, GA
UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
Lifer wrote:
@ the rest of you - If you are not interested in saving money and don't care what a dealer charges just so long as the price is affordable to you, then by all means spend your money. The Vespa is already over priced for what it is.
why do you own a vespa if it is so over priced?
just get a chinese scoot and save yourself the big $$$$$$$$
Paying big prices to Piaggio is one thing--they gave the scooter its beautiful lines and rich heritage, which is a large part of what makes Vespas more desirable than chinese scoots. Also, whatever of the MSRP doesn't go to Piaggio--stuff like shipping fees or taxes--is still part of getting the scoot into the U.S., and feels more like something imposed by "the man" and not a handful of people who are trying to squeeze money out of us because they know we bought into an expensive brand.

Personally, this is why high dealer prep fees bother me--they're not really adding anything of value to the scooter, except for the PDI (important, of course), which is still arguably not worth hundreds of dollars...right?
UTC

Hooked
'08 Siena Ivory LXV
Joined: UTC
Posts: 336
Location: New York
 
Hooked
'08 Siena Ivory LXV
Joined: UTC
Posts: 336
Location: New York
UTC quote
The Scootin' Scott wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
Lifer wrote:
@ the rest of you - If you are not interested in saving money and don't care what a dealer charges just so long as the price is affordable to you, then by all means spend your money. The Vespa is already over priced for what it is.
why do you own a vespa if it is so over priced?
just get a chinese scoot and save yourself the big $$$$$$$$
Paying big prices to Piaggio is one thing--they gave the scooter its beautiful lines and rich heritage, which is a large part of what makes Vespas more desirable than chinese scoots. Also, whatever of the MSRP doesn't go to Piaggio--stuff like shipping fees or taxes--is still part of getting the scoot into the U.S., and feels more like something imposed by "the man" and not a handful of people who are trying to squeeze money out of us because they know we bought into an expensive brand.

Personally, this is why high dealer prep fees bother me--they're not really adding anything of value to the scooter, except for the PDI (important, of course), which is still arguably not worth hundreds of dollars...right?
+1 well said.

IMO the cost of dealer charge to prep, deliver and inspect your vespa should be in the $100-$200 range and not the $600 as some dealers would charge.

As for Vespa being expensive, first we must realize that Vespa does not market itself as scooter company - Vespa market itself as a LIFESTYLE company.

If you want to shop for a reliable scooter and get the best bang for your bucks, you should buy a Chinese or Japanese scooter for 1/3 the cost of a Vespa.

HOWEVER, if you want to cruise down Sunset Blvd with a beautiful lady (or gent) on your back seat, make a statement about your taste and style, and be the center of attention (and envy), you should buy a VESPA, because that lifestyle will cost you at 2-3 time cost of a "non-lifestyle" scooter.

@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
Moderator
@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
MSRP has a totally different meaning in the US versus Europe, Lifer. I live in the EU as well. Go back and look at the US FTC material. Freight to dealer and set up charges are over and above MSRP BY DEFINITION. Additionally, VAT is included in the MSRP in the EU, while sales taxes are add ons in the US. Further, duties (customs) are not charged between countries in the EU. Not sure what kind of import taxes are levied on scooters brought into the US, but they add on. There are costs associated with clearing commercial goods through US Customs that are not levied between EU countries. Further, Piaggio USA has to include hedging the exchange rate in its pricing structure.

RP in the EU, is exactly that, the actual Retail Price at the retailer, not a base line to which other costs are added at the retailer.

In short, you cannot compare business practices in the EU with business practices in the US. The EU retailer is working on a very different cost basis.

I am not saying someone should not try to get the best price possible. I am just pointing out that one cannot equate the costing simplistically between the US and EU.

Al
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
UTC quote
Deffinatly not a lifestyle choice for me, I happen to think they make a good scooter. Cheap economical transportation, not a trendy accessorie to fill my garage or to impress my girlfriend's lovers.

I think you can compare business in the EU to the US or anywhere else. I think there are differences in culture that you have to adhere to, to fit in, although sometimes the opposite works. If it is the street kid in Guatamala or the CEO of a fortune 500 company the basics are the same only at different levels you have more resources and knowledge at your disposal in oder to exploite a larger number of people's weaknesses for a larger gain. Unless there is a tax gain for adding the price plus on road cost then there is no reson for it, except for manipulation.
⚠️ Last edited by snakebike on UTC; edited 1 time
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
Lifer wrote:
@ the rest of you - If you are not interested in saving money and don't care what a dealer charges just so long as the price is affordable to you, then by all means spend your money. The Vespa is already over priced for what it is.
why do you own a vespa if it is so over priced?
just get a chinese scoot and save yourself the big $$$$$$$$
I have one to make a statement. If I rode a motorcycle, it would be a Harley... to make a statement, not because it is the best bike out there... though I think the all steel body of the Vespa is superior to others.

AL - I think you're still mis-reading what I was trying to say. My point is not that the prices between the US and Europe should not be calculated different, but rather that the purchase price should be about the same at the end of the day.

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that a US dealer pays a different price to Piaggio? If you mean that, then I have to disagree.

I know freight, customs and taxes are different, but I venture to say that the freight is the same price, the taxes I paid are the same as the US including import tax, and prep costs are the same. At the end of total expenses, the US dealer and European dealer had the out the door costs.

My contention is that the US dealer is getting a better profit margin based on out the door prices if all expenses balance out.

Only a dealer would know... and they aren't getting involved in this debate

It doesn't much matter... btw, are we still on topic?
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22822
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22822
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
Lifer wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
Lifer wrote:
@ the rest of you - If you are not interested in saving money and don't care what a dealer charges just so long as the price is affordable to you, then by all means spend your money. The Vespa is already over priced for what it is.
why do you own a vespa if it is so over priced?
just get a chinese scoot and save yourself the big $$$$$$$$
I have one to make a statement. If I rode a motorcycle, it would be a Harley... to make a statement, not because it is the best bike out there... though I think the all steel body of the Vespa is superior to others.
so what you re saying is you own a vespa as a statement. As look I have a vespa what do you have kinda thing. You know it is over priced and all but I still have one.
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdg avatar
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
UTC quote
Quote:
IMO the cost of dealer charge to prep, deliver and inspect your vespa should be in the $100-$200 range and not the $600 as some dealers would charge.
Well just to clarify your incorrect information there is an actual freight charged to Vespa dealers in the USA seperate of the vehicle base cost and it average's about $320.00. So you can add the uncrating, prepping of the bike and destruction of the container to that and bam, there ya go.

I just don't like the random matter of fact reply of inflated charges, if you don't know you should of asked. They are real.

Happy 4th to all,
SDG
UTC

Hooked
'08 Siena Ivory LXV
Joined: UTC
Posts: 336
Location: New York
 
Hooked
'08 Siena Ivory LXV
Joined: UTC
Posts: 336
Location: New York
UTC quote
SDG wrote:
Quote:
IMO the cost of dealer charge to prep, deliver and inspect your vespa should be in the $100-$200 range and not the $600 as some dealers would charge.
Well just to clarify your incorrect information there is an actual freight charged to Vespa dealers in the USA seperate of the vehicle base cost and it average's about $320.00. So you can add the uncrating, prepping of the bike and destruction of the container to that and bam, there ya go.

I just don't like the random matter of fact reply of inflated charges, if you don't know you should of asked. They are real.

Happy 4th to all,
SDG
Dave you're 100% right and I stand corrected. I should've said that my figures are directed towards the PREP/DELIVERY portion only. But I'm glad you pointed out my mistake because I just dug up my invoices and here are the breakdowns of FREIGHT PLUS DELIVERY/PREP for the two scooters I bought last summer...they are real:

my first scooter from Vespa of Thousand Oaks:
Delivery (avg per SDG): $320
Dealer Prep: $270 (reduced from $330)
TOTAL: $590 (reduced from $650)


my second scooter from Vespa of Santa Barbara:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $60
TOTAL: $380


Btw, I also got a quote from Vespa of Sherman Oaks:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $510
TOTAL: $830


As you can see the Dealer Prep portion varies quite a bit from dealer to dealer.

If anyone want copy of the invoices I would be happy to email them to you.

Have a nice FOURTH to you, too Dave.
⚠️ Last edited by pchop on UTC; edited 14 times
@grscum avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2012 BMW G650GS, 2006 GTS,
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2090
Location: Snohomish County, WA
 
Ossessionato
@grscum avatar
2012 BMW G650GS, 2006 GTS,
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2090
Location: Snohomish County, WA
UTC quote
One of our dealers should make a wiki page on this subject since it comes up with every round of newbies.
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
UTC quote
pchop wrote:
SDG wrote:
Quote:
IMO the cost of dealer charge to prep, deliver and inspect your vespa should be in the $100-$200 range and not the $600 as some dealers would charge.
Well just to clarify your incorrect information there is an actual freight charged to Vespa dealers in the USA seperate of the vehicle base cost and it average's about $320.00. So you can add the uncrating, prepping of the bike and destruction of the container to that and bam, there ya go.

I just don't like the random matter of fact reply of inflated charges, if you don't know you should of asked. They are real.

Happy 4th to all,
SDG
Dave you're 100% right and I stand corrected. I should've said that my figures are directed towards the PREP/DELIVERY portion only. But I'm glad you pointed out my mistake because I just dug up my invoices and here are the breakdowns of FREIGHT PLUS DELIVERY/PREP for the two scooters I bought last summer...they are real:

my first scooter from Vespa of Thousand Oaks:
Delivery (avg per SDG): $320
Dealer Prep: $270 (reduced from $330)
TOTAL: $590 (reduced from $650)


my second scooter from Vespa of Santa Barbara:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $60
TOTAL: $380


Btw, I also got a quote from Vespa of Sherman Oaks:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $510
TOTAL: $830


As you can see the Dealer Prep portion varies quite a bit from dealer to dealer.

If anyone want copy of the invoices I would be happy to email them to you.

Have a nice FOURTH to you, too Dave.
touchee
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdg avatar
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
UTC quote
snakebike wrote:
pchop wrote:
SDG wrote:
Quote:
IMO the cost of dealer charge to prep, deliver and inspect your vespa should be in the $100-$200 range and not the $600 as some dealers would charge.
Well just to clarify your incorrect information there is an actual freight charged to Vespa dealers in the USA seperate of the vehicle base cost and it average's about $320.00. So you can add the uncrating, prepping of the bike and destruction of the container to that and bam, there ya go.

I just don't like the random matter of fact reply of inflated charges, if you don't know you should of asked. They are real.

Happy 4th to all,
SDG
Dave you're 100% right and I stand corrected. I should've said that my figures are directed towards the PREP/DELIVERY portion only. But I'm glad you pointed out my mistake because I just dug up my invoices and here are the breakdowns of FREIGHT PLUS DELIVERY/PREP for the two scooters I bought last summer...they are real:

my first scooter from Vespa of Thousand Oaks:
Delivery (avg per SDG): $320
Dealer Prep: $270 (reduced from $330)
TOTAL: $590 (reduced from $650)


my second scooter from Vespa of Santa Barbara:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $60
TOTAL: $380


Btw, I also got a quote from Vespa of Sherman Oaks:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $510
TOTAL: $830


As you can see the Dealer Prep portion varies quite a bit from dealer to dealer.

If anyone want copy of the invoices I would be happy to email them to you.

Have a nice FOURTH to you, too Dave.
touchee
Duh.............

Well anyway our invoice does not break down freight/dealer prep so I have no clue how you broke that down. Secondly now that we own Vespa Sherman Oaks we have certainly reduced those fee's to be more in line with industry standards.

The moral of the story is riders should ride and dealers should do their thing as riders buy a scoot every 5 years and dealers do it 100's of times a year. We need to stay in business or you will have nobody to call when the nail hits your rear tire on PCH and you need a brother to hook you up.

Best,
SDG
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
pchop wrote:
SDG wrote:
Quote:
IMO the cost of dealer charge to prep, deliver and inspect your vespa should be in the $100-$200 range and not the $600 as some dealers would charge.
Well just to clarify your incorrect information there is an actual freight charged to Vespa dealers in the USA seperate of the vehicle base cost and it average's about $320.00. So you can add the uncrating, prepping of the bike and destruction of the container to that and bam, there ya go.

I just don't like the random matter of fact reply of inflated charges, if you don't know you should of asked. They are real.

Happy 4th to all,
SDG
Dave you're 100% right and I stand corrected. I should've said that my figures are directed towards the PREP/DELIVERY portion only. But I'm glad you pointed out my mistake because I just dug up my invoices and here are the breakdowns of FREIGHT PLUS DELIVERY/PREP for the two scooters I bought last summer...they are real:

my first scooter from Vespa of Thousand Oaks:
Delivery (avg per SDG): $320
Dealer Prep: $270 (reduced from $330)
TOTAL: $590 (reduced from $650)


my second scooter from Vespa of Santa Barbara:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $60
TOTAL: $380


Btw, I also got a quote from Vespa of Sherman Oaks:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $510
TOTAL: $830


As you can see the Dealer Prep portion varies quite a bit from dealer to dealer.

If anyone want copy of the invoices I would be happy to email them to you.

Have a nice FOURTH to you, too Dave.
I think this proves my point that dealer prep are just a way to add profit.

@ Old as dirt - everyone has their own reason... I don't need to justify riding a Vespa, do I?

"cause I can" basically says the same thing, right?
OP
@dfndr avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
MP 3 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 53
Location: Fresno, Ca
 
Enthusiast
@dfndr avatar
MP 3 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 53
Location: Fresno, Ca
UTC quote
Do you get the feeling that the dealer who charges $600 for "prep/setup" is going to rip you off every time you bring the bike in for service as opposed to the dealer who charges $100?
@norman avatar
UTC

Hooked
1978 MotoVespa 160GT, 2009 LML Star 2T (Stella), 1961 Lambretta S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 439
Location: Belgium
 
Hooked
@norman avatar
1978 MotoVespa 160GT, 2009 LML Star 2T (Stella), 1961 Lambretta S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 439
Location: Belgium
UTC quote
As an outsider (Europe) looking in, the thing that strikes me as odd is that there is a "delivery charge" at all. Presumably, you can't buy the item without delivery, therefore why not just include it in the price? It's not like it's optional or something.

Do these delivery charges apply to other items in the US? What does the dealer charge, for example, on a 50" TV? That comes in a similar size crate to a Vespa, so should be comparable.

Dealer prep is one thing (although again, if it's not optional, why not include it in the price?), but delivery costs are associated with pretty much everything you buy.
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
dfndr wrote:
Do you get the feeling that the dealer who charges $600 for "prep/setup" is going to rip you off every time you bring the bike in for service as opposed to the dealer who charges $100?
I don't mind paying for quality and service, but I don't want to feel like a dealer took advantage of me when I find out that another dealer had prices that were much better for the same product and / or service.

As expected, dealers will justify the markup, which is what it is because as a "cost" it is not much - one hour labor, overhead and material.

Who wants to over pay?

Think about it... the dealer has costs... but I would venture to say that a Vespa customer knows pretty much what he wants before he even enters the store. He wants to know about inventory and prices. That is just about it for the most part. They have already sold themselves before they came. They know the specs, issues, resale value, models, etc.

You don't have to "sell" a Vespa customer... You have to confirm his decision... and help him justify the higher overall cost (an argument he knows well... but wants to hear it one more time).

How many customers do you think you will keep if they find out that the local dealer is so far out of line with his prices compared to another shop a few hundred miles away.

If I found out, I would never go to the over priced dealership

Just my opinion, which no one asked for, and which is basically useless except to me

So why argue the point? - I guess I am bored - Vacation starts Monday
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
Moderator
@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
norman wrote:
As an outsider (Europe) looking in, the thing that strikes me as odd is that there is a "delivery charge" at all. Presumably, you can't buy the item without delivery, therefore why not just include it in the price? It's not like it's optional or something.
Many years ago, in response to consumer complaints, the federal government established "standards" for how the price of a motor vehicle was to be advertised. This is called the "Monroney Sticker", and the method of showing pricing on this sticker and any other price sticker added to the Monroney is established by federal law.

For example, delivery to the dealer and "dealer preparation" are not included in the base price of a motor vehicle. Putting delivery to the dealer outside the published retail price makes sense, as it is a much longer distance to deliver a Detroit made vehicle to Los Angeles (3675 km) than Cleveland (272 km). And, Anchorage, Alaska is 6200 km from Detroit. Last, but not least, Hawaii is 3900 km by ship from Los Angeles, plus the 3675 km to Detroit. How would you average these distances to get a single cost of delivery into the base price without upsetting the people in Cleveland?

Thus, each buyer is shown the alleged actual delivery charge to his locale on the price "sticker" on a new motor vehicle, as it would vary greatly due to the large distances involved in the US market.

If one looks at Piaggio's EU prices, they are established by country. The largest distance across any European country is about 1000 km. Much easier to include delivery to the retailer in the base price with distances of that magnitude.

At the risk of sounding cynical, in the US, it's not what you get for your money, but what you think you get that's important. Several years back, I had a neighbor who was quite pleased to be able to buy a car for only $100 over the "invoice price" to the dealer. He really thought he had caused the dealer some "pain". What he was unaware of is that the "invoice" a dealer receives for a car normally has no relationship to what the dealer really pays for the car, as the auto makers grant rebates and cash incentives to dealers based upon the quantity and mix of cars they buy from the automaker. But, the important thing to my neighbor was believing he made the dealer "squirm".

Rebates are a long standing practice in the US auto industry. Back in the 60's, my family's business was able to buy 4 panel trucks below actual cost from our next door neighbor's dealership because he needed to sell those four trucks to get a bigger rebate on all the other cars he sold during a 3 month period. He got significantly more money in rebates than he lost in selling the 4 trucks below cost, and he had to sell 4 truck to get those rebates. In fact, he approached us on the deal. We never thought to go to him for trucks, as his clientele were strictly suburban upscale auto buyers, and he never had a truck on display in his showroom.

Many times, things are not as they appear to be on the surface.

Al
@peterc avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2009 Vespa GTS 250, TBA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2272
Location: Green Valley, AZ
 
Ossessionato
@peterc avatar
2009 Vespa GTS 250, TBA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2272
Location: Green Valley, AZ
UTC quote
When I bought my Stella, brand-new, I was quoted an Out-The-Door price. It was a fair price, and I really appreciated this no-B.S. approach.
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
UTC quote
Lifer wrote:
Well Wayne, using your example, they should charge $6199 for the scooter, $100 for the prep, and $126 for tax = $6425

But they don't

The sell for what?

$7600?

AL - You kinda got me off topic there and I lost my train of thought - The point I was trying to make was that potential buyers should shop around, find a good deal, and use that as leverage to get local dealers to sell at a fair price.

BTW - There are some credit unions that will give you the information what a car or scooter should cost based on invoice prices. Interestingly, in Texas, you can buy a car for $200 over invoice.

@ the rest of you - If you are not interested in saving money and don't care what a dealer charges just so long as the price is affordable to you, then by all means spend your money. The Vespa is already over priced for what it is. On the other hand, in this terrible economy, people want the best (perceived or real), but more importantly need to get value for money. I just disagree with business people that charge an arm and a leg when other dealers don't do it.

@ Apple - I would buy the scooter at Ford and have it serviced at the other dealer - no problem. I'm sure the service department is a profit center and they won't turn me away. I did the same thing here - Bought the BVC and the GTS from another dealer than does my service. I asked my service guys if they had a problem with that, and the answer was that they were happy to have my business. I don't act like a king... I just book service and pay the prices they ask when it comes to service. These guys were the first to sell Vespas in Germany way back when. They are still in business even though customers like me will put the pressure on to discount.. or buy elsewhere and get my service there.

There is no disgrace in trying to save money
The freight is cost of shipping within the US boards, not for getting it to the US. The higher MSRP covers that, plus the cost of making them US certified.

Wayne B
@krylon88 avatar
UTC

Hooked
lx150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: LBC
 
Hooked
@krylon88 avatar
lx150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: LBC
UTC quote
norman wrote:
As an outsider (Europe) looking in, the thing that strikes me as odd is that there is a "delivery charge" at all. Presumably, you can't buy the item without delivery, therefore why not just include it in the price? It's not like it's optional or something.

Do these delivery charges apply to other items in the US? What does the dealer charge, for example, on a 50" TV? That comes in a similar size crate to a Vespa, so should be comparable.

Dealer prep is one thing (although again, if it's not optional, why not include it in the price?), but delivery costs are associated with pretty much everything you buy.
As noted before, the advertised MSRP of the bike does not include the freight charges, which could vary.

Also, the $600 dealer prep charge is bullshit. It's nothing more than something like a 25 point inspection, and takes about an hour. But, if the client is hardballing the salesman, the dealership may "waive" the cost of the dealer prep, "saving" the customer a whopping $600, when in fact it's only "costing" the dealership a whopping $85-90
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
UTC quote
Q
Lifer wrote:
pchop wrote:
SDG wrote:
Quote:
IMO the cost of dealer charge to prep, deliver and inspect your vespa should be in the $100-$200 range and not the $600 as some dealers would charge.
Well just to clarify your incorrect information there is an actual freight charged to Vespa dealers in the USA seperate of the vehicle base cost and it average's about $320.00. So you can add the uncrating, prepping of the bike and destruction of the container to that and bam, there ya go.

I just don't like the random matter of fact reply of inflated charges, if you don't know you should of asked. They are real.

Happy 4th to all,
SDG
Dave you're 100% right and I stand corrected. I should've said that my figures are directed towards the PREP/DELIVERY portion only. But I'm glad you pointed out my mistake because I just dug up my invoices and here are the breakdowns of FREIGHT PLUS DELIVERY/PREP for the two scooters I bought last summer...they are real:

my first scooter from Vespa of Thousand Oaks:
Delivery (avg per SDG): $320
Dealer Prep: $270 (reduced from $330)
TOTAL: $590 (reduced from $650)


my second scooter from Vespa of Santa Barbara:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $60
TOTAL: $380


Btw, I also got a quote from Vespa of Sherman Oaks:
Delivery: $320
Dealer Prep: $510
TOTAL: $830


As you can see the Dealer Prep portion varies quite a bit from dealer to dealer.

If anyone want copy of the invoices I would be happy to email them to you.

Have a nice FOURTH to you, too Dave.
I think this proves my point that dealer prep are just a way to add profit.

@ Old as dirt - everyone has their own reason... I don't need to justify riding a Vespa, do I?

"cause I can" basically says the same thing, right?
And that is what a BUSINESS is suppose to do here in the GOOD OL USA is MONEY FUCKING MONEY. GOD WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want my dealer to be there when I have a warranty issue!
This isn't Communist Russia.

Venting over

Wayne B
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
Don't get excited Wayne.

I believe the Vespas arrive with US specs

I also believe Vespas are delivered to the nearest port - and the shipping difference is negligible.

I don't care - You go right ahead and pay what they ask of you - I was just trying to clue others in to the games dealers play.

My words were for those who want to keep more of their money in their own pocket while making deals to get the best quality product and service. The way I do business results in more money in my pocket and not accepting the first offer of contractors or suppliers when there are such great differences.

I imagine your dealer loves you dearly

And, please Wayne... don't take this personally because I respect your right to have and express your opinion.
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdg avatar
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
UTC quote
Lifer wrote:
Don't get excited Wayne.

I believe the Vespas arrive with US specs

TRUE

I also believe Vespas are delivered to the nearest port - and the shipping difference is negligible.

FALSE

I don't care - You go right ahead and pay what they ask of you - I was just trying to clue others in to the games dealers play.

SUBJECTIVE

My words were for those who want to keep more of their money in their own pocket while making deals to get the best quality product and service. The way I do business results in more money in my pocket and not accepting the first offer of contractors or suppliers when there are such great differences.

SWEET !!

I imagine your dealer loves you dearly

ABSOLUTELY Razz emoticon

And, please Wayne... don't take this personally because I respect your right to have and express your opinion.

KIND OF YA !! 8)
Best,
SDG
@lifer avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
 
Molto Verboso
@lifer avatar
Black Molly - GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1217
Location: Essen, Germany
UTC quote
@ SDG - I like your art work, and I will tell you right now that if I lived in your area, I would definately try to do business with you. Having said that, and from what you have been reading, you might not want to bother with me as a customer.

But if I am any judge of character, I think you are a stand up guy and would probably respect the fact that I took the time to get well informed about prices and options before I entered your store, looked at your inventory, and asked you for a cash price that we could both live with.

My gut tells me you would work with me... and we would both look forward to my next purchase. In the meanwhile, I would be seeing you on a pretty regular basis when getting my periodic service.
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdg avatar
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6549
Location: Thousand Oaks
UTC quote
Lifer wrote:
@ SDG - I like your art work, and I will tell you right now that if I lived in your area, I would definately try to do business with you. Having said that, and from what you have been reading, you might not want to bother with me as a customer.

But if I am any judge of character, I think you are a stand up guy and would probably respect the fact that I took the time to get well informed about prices and options before I entered your store, looked at your inventory, and asked you for a cash price that we could both live with.

My gut tells me you would work with me... and we would both look forward to my next purchase. In the meanwhile, I would be seeing you on a pretty regular basis when getting my periodic service.
Lifer you are correct on every single point. I would LOVE to have you as a client and friend, indeed.

SDG
@drewteague avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2813
Location: Austin
 
Ossessionato
@drewteague avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2813
Location: Austin
UTC quote
This is not a millionaire's business. We do this because we love the bikes and the people, and hopefully help support our families financially along the way.
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3610
 
Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3610
UTC quote
Having been the President & COO of a 22 store, big-ticket, retail operation for 15 years, I can tell you that business is the art of the possible. When times are tough, the tough get going and make things happen. SDG has the correct philosophy. As I always told the people that I worked with.......... "10% of something is always better than 100% of nothing".
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44567
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44567
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Exactly. 20 sales a month with 7% mark-up is far better than 5 sales with 20%. Plus you'll get more coming through for servicing. Oh, and sell more helmets, locks, gloves, you-name-it. Frankly, anything to keep the cash churning around.

ps - and more friends to be made.
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2919
UTC quote
Lifer wrote:
Don't get excited Wayne.

I believe the Vespas arrive with US specs

I also believe Vespas are delivered to the nearest port - and the shipping difference is negligible.

I don't care - You go right ahead and pay what they ask of you - I was just trying to clue others in to the games dealers play.

My words were for those who want to keep more of their money in their own pocket while making deals to get the best quality product and service. The way I do business results in more money in my pocket and not accepting the first offer of contractors or suppliers when there are such great differences.

I imagine your dealer loves you dearly

And, please Wayne... don't take this personally because I respect your right to have and express your opinion.
I was a car salesman for 9 months, I gave up. There are so many maggots out there that want to buy a car for less then we paid for it, I think dealers have to do what they can to survive. Go try selling scooter or cars and your view will change. People are maggots for some reason with cars and motorcycle purchases.

Get a good price, but remember that dealer and salesman have to eat too.

Wayne B

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2025 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0273s ][ Queries: 3 (0.0200s) ][ live ][ 327 ][ ThingOne ]