Modern Vespa

This just blows. I'd been out for a 25 mile ride, and 2 blocks from home my header cracked open -- again. This one only had a couple of thousand miles on it, after replacing the original -- which also broke after about 2K miles with the Leo Vince. It's a shame, because, apart from it breaking my scooter every 2K miles, I really like the pipe. I'd been very careful during set up to keep it lined up and try to not induce any stress, but to no avail. Clearly LV should be making these with a complete 1-piece header, like the GT model.

So, I guess I'm in the market for a new exhaust now. I'll start looking through the archives to see what people are recommending now. I think I read the PMs have gotten quiter, and there maybe some other new options since the LVs came out. Poooh.

Uhm, maybe a trusted stock exhaust?

+1000

Seriously how many failures and threads on this will it take to realize you cannot reinvent the wheel. If it isn't fast enough get a bigger bike.

SDG

x1000

+1001

Well, the trusted stock exhaust has had some problems. (Hopefully now solved with the addition of a welded washer, a more robust clamp, and a new type of gasket, along with a directive to never separate the header from the exhaust). We all know to watch that joint like a hawk.

There have been enough reports of broken header pipes to figure out that the expansion joint is both important and a weak link.

I suspect the answer is to use molylube on that joint (with the LV), under-torque the joint, and either wire the fastener or fabricate a keeper to stop the bolt from vibrating loose. The same thing should probably be done by people using Motoamore's muffler bearing.

Personally I really like the stock exhaust, but I can understand people wanting to put a lighter/fancier/shinier/more individual exhaust on.

cheers




edit:toaster add/Molto Verboso post.
cheers again

people have been modifying their bikes, cars, and trucks for about as long as they have been produced. Most of the time, the results are good, but there is always a risk. Ive done some searches, because id like some more noise, maybe a small shot of performance. havent seen a trusted pipe yet, that hasnt caused problems for the Gt200

I hate the stock exhaust because it's given me no end of problems

I've only had the LV pipe for a few hundred miles, so the jury is out on that one
(and it does have a lovely sound)

Having been on the receiving end of more than one failure of the stock exhaust, I can say with some authority that it ain't exactly a bundle of joy. Sure, it's a lot less likely to break the header, but it's virtually guaranteed to fail.

A welded stock exhaust is not bad, but it'll eventually fail too, right where the tube is welded to the muffler itself. Expansion and contraction under heat is a bitch.

The LV pipe IS hard to line up and get bolted without stress. It's a design flaw. But when it's done properly, it can take Cannonball-level abuse. Hell, my baffle broke during CB due to the high heat and stress, but the header never did, once I got it bolted up right.

I hate reading these threads, it makes me wonder when my LV pipe will break. But so far I've been lucky after having the pipe for over a year and half.

I have almost 6000 miles on my LeoVince. I am on a GT200 though which has a different setup. I don't remeber seeing any threads on issues with my model. Has anyone out there with a GT200 had any problems?

I did recently notice that LeoVince no longer offers the 4Road for the GT200L. At least it's no longer listed on their official site. Perhaps they've discontinued the wrong model.

Stephen -

You should be fine with your GT200. The LV pipe for 200 includes the full header pipe coming off the exhaust port. The GTS250 model just uses a short interim pipe to connect the muffler to the original Piaggio header pipe. It's the Piaggio header pipe that cracks. I believe it's made of titanium, which means it's good with heat, but also more brittle than SS. It also means it costs like $115 to replace, and isn't repairable by welding.

The original GTS header has a bung hole (threaded insert) for the EFI O2 sensor. Apparently LV didn't want to spend the $$$ to make a full header with a bung hole, so they half-assed it with the interim pipe. With multiple compound angles between the 3 pieces (original header, interim pipe, muffler) it's very difficult to line up the LV pipe during installation. Having done it several times and learned from previous failure, I actually am pretty good at it. 25 years of wrenching on Vespas doesn't hurt either. After my first one cracked, the two ends of the broken piece were out of alignment--okay, I probably stressed it at install. This time around (with very mindful mounting), the two sides of the cracked header are still spot on alignment-wise -- just cracked all the way through. I really don't think it was an installation error.

As woodenhead and others noted, the stock exhaust has plenty of issues of its own, so I reject those snotty, smug, and completely unhelpful comments a la, "Nah, nah. Told you so. Stock is best!"and "+1001" (what is this, the Rush Limbaugh show?). Maybe it's time for you to take your uber-stock bikes to the dealer to get your mirrors adjusted again.

Really, if anyone has any helpful suggestions, I'm all ears. Has anyone had any success with contacting LV about the problem? Is it even worth calling them? I've heard good things about the PM pipee. Looks like it's may only be available from UK, not USA. Anyone have experience getting one in the USA? How about the Gianelli? Anyone have good experiences with other good aftermarket exhausts?

Thanks.

I had a PM pipe on my ET4 for 5 years 36000km and it never had an issue and the product was very good . I did initially have to modifie it slightly to make it fit nicely at the head. I am not a fan of performance exhaust anymore, the noise gets to me. I know you don't want to hear it but I would say my initial response would be go back to stock but I won't cause I don't want you yelling at me. My PM pipe was mounted on a floating system that had give. I was wondering if you used a hanger type device that had a rubber bushing to allow for some movement, perhaps this would help stop the stress from building up. I don't know, but I suspect this LV is hard mounted for it to be breaking the header like this.

The LV 4-Road is certainly the pipe I normally recommend for those on X9 125's. The French use them in large quantities (which may account for their scarcity here and elsewhere). I've seen plenty of Giannelli's which look good and sound more subtle.

Stock Piaggio exhausts are good where they are s/s to start with (400, 500 Master engines). The mild steel ones on the smaller engines have always been shite. The downpipes are as stated above prone to fracture - I don't know what they are made of, I had assumed a form of stainless, as the Motad s/s downpipe on my old 125 has gone exactly the same reddish-brown as all the Piaggio "s/s" downpipes on any Master engined bike I've seen. I doubt they are titanium - that strikes me as an expense too far for Piaggio or LV.

Tip - for LV pipes etc where there is a stainless to stainless steel junction, make sure the joint is smeared liberally with a magnesium compound. This is most economically found by buying a bottle of 'Milk of Magnesia', letting it settle for a few weeks, pour off the top bit and use the dregs as your jointing compound. This helps prevent "stuck" joints subject to high temperatures. (A tip from a retired aircraft engineer friend.)

I happen to like the Piaggio graphite collar, especially the new design, which seems to last much longer.

What sort of problems have you had?

The biggest problem I had with the stock exhaust is dealing with how ucking fugly it is.

Yep, that, the fact it rusts, and sheds paint like a drunk stripper sheds clothers.

The Gianelli looks good.

There are ways around that

You make it sound much better than it actually is.

cheers

+10000000

Reverends header pipe broke recently and hes running a stoke pipe, so Piaggios not got it right.
Funny thing, the dealer charged him to replace it and it should have been covered under the warranty.

The people I met with a PM pipe havent had the same problems as the LV on the GTS.

oh yeah, the stock pipe goes threw those dam bushings, so stock isnt that great.

And to the guy whos tracking my post, Im running a stock pipe now.

If you look at Benitos picture and if that is the LV pipe I would say that it is uglier then the stock one. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and each to his own and I don;t want to challenge your taste, but it is just a sausage like contraption with no shape whatsoever. Even the Pm is flute like and the original has a nice kidney shape with a secondary stylish heat shield. I can understand getting one of these for performance, sound, durability but I don't think it improves the looks. I like you hat though

Opinion: The LV looks like a pipe, the stock exhaust looks like, well crap or a kidney.

Exactly!
After only two (2) winters of New Jersey commuting, the rust looked like this:
(I took this picture because the missing heat shield had also rusted out
and was rattling very loudly until I had it removed)

It also chewed up and spat out $40 graphite collars
Plus the screws that were screwed into aluminum were welded into place

Clearly the Piaggio engineers did not expect anyone to ride on roads that had been heavily salted


A bigger concern for me was that the gas gauge dropped to empty
when the graphite gasket split for parts unknown (in cool weather)

I've been enjoying an SC summer,
so I now know that this happens whenever part of the engine (possibly the gas tank) has heated up past 95F
I know this because if the temperature is above 95F, then the parked & "cool" scooter starts with an empty tank

I am NOT amused by the possibility that the damaged gasket
caused the exhaust to shoot exhaust gases right at the gas tank

And this is indeed possible: the gas tank & the level indicator are near to and above the disappearing gasket
(the pink part is what you can see by looking under your seat):



Anyway, about the LV pipe:
after a month of riding in the SC heat, it looks like:
(for the chromephiles, please note the discoloration)

Not a huge improvement in the looks department

However, the sound is lovely and very appropriate in SC
(where at least half the vehicles on the road are louder than mine)

hi dougw

if you want real performaces in acceleration & top speed,
a loud sound, be part of the PM Army!
i sold mine PM62 (GT200L model) for too much noise,
it's really like you ride an enduro bike
my neighboorhood wanted to kill me after a few km with it!

i'm back with the original one sprayed black matt, but stil looking for more feed back about the gialleni witch seems to be quite & performer

enjoy your mods

Stock does the job, just looks like shit. Having had three stock exhausts on new Vespa I give up in terms of making them look ok if you don't keep your scooter in a hyperbaric chamber.

Somebody here described them when they get really bad as having all the rigidity of a doily.

Piaggio makes better, just not for the Vespa.

OK. How do you like the LeoVince NOW?

OK. How do you like the LeoVince NOW?[/quote]
Doesn't that kinda restrict the flow?

Doesn't that kinda restrict the flow?[/quote]

The felt breathes well enough.

I called up Matt at ScooterTrap and ordered the Giannelli Iperscooter exhaust this morning. He confirmed that it does come with a full header pipe with O2 bung hole, and confirmed other reports that it's about the same loudness as the LV, but with a lower, throatier sound. I'm hopeful it will be a good and reliable aftermarket exhaust. And it comes with its own hat (heat shield) so I won't have to do like Astromag!

please give us your feed back about this exhaust
i really think about fitting one on my GT
depend of the performances, the noise etc...

best regards

I'm still rocking the LV after two header cracks, but did get it welded after the second one (thanks Gary!). I got about 4K both times before crack, so a little better than Doug and I think about the same as Manny.

Doug - do give us review and how much on the Gianelli.

Go over to MP3 forum.Look up title "There is a shark in the desert" Take a look at this members 250's exhaust pipe.Look nice! There is info about it or who to contact.Isn't the MP3 250 and GTS 250 same engines? Think so.

I live in the land of RUST. So far keeping the LX in a shed has kept the rust at bay but the LT is shedding worse than my rabbit Anything rusts here it's a matter of time

Astro you should start selling those mods on MV.

I would but the vintage pork pie hats are hard to come by.

I like it better it certainly improves the look

I love your LV, Im thinking about getting one for my MP3

I'd be forced to agree with that...

too bad your in Texas, we have plenty of porkpies and fedoras here, its the next trend, give it a couple years, it will reach you by then.