Modern Vespa

Just curious if there have been any developments for you and the J-Costa on your 400.

chris

joe,

I can see from your photos that you've changed the stock yellow clutch springs to the pink ones; but the "red pillow springs", are they included in the box, what do they look like and where in the clutch are they located? They must be hidden, because I don't see them.

Thanks!

Hi, well the bell got delivered to my mechanic, but in the meantime I got hit by a car. Nothing major, but it's delayed things coz I'm trying to coordinate accident repairs with the JCosta fix.

I'll let ya know

Hey there - it's happened at last - I've (well, Cheeky T) fitted the updated bell JCosta sent me. How does it go, now?

Good! Is the answer!

The take-off is now good! Yay!

OEM variator: lots of vibration. Rough power application.
JCosta with 500 bell: smoother but big embarrassing/dangerous power lag.
JCosta with new bell: smooth and only a small lag. Much nicer than OEM.

I really don't think a 400 scooter of this weight could get a much better take-off - apparently, even the 500 has a noticeable lag with the JCosta.

NOTE: I am not using the suggested weights! During the process of JCosta trying to work out what was wrong with the 400 kit, they sent me a set of 18g weights to try (the standards are 25g (though actually weighed nearer 23g)). When I changed to the new bell I did try the standard weights, but I found I missed the mid-range acceleration the lighter ones gave (or seemed to give - maybe I'm imagining it). Either way - the corrected bell makes a great difference.

Summary: The JCosta variator for the MP3 400 *with the updated bell* makes the performance better and smoother throughout the range. It's not startling, but it's worth it, IMO.

P.S. One thing to look out for - the bells had the same part number! I was frightened for a bit that they'd sent another of the same. There was a small but noticeable difference, though (https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic51290) and that did the job!

EDIT 2: OK so "Clutch Springs" need to be Pinks (25kg) and the Pillow Springs" Yellows (20kg) + Dr Pulley SR (15g) in your OEM variator . This is my finall set-up ABSOLUTELY LOVING IT !!!
Joe - I have 2 inquires I like to ask you based on your Edit 2 statement above.
1. When I purchase the Dr. Pulley HiT Clutch, can I also request for them to include the Clutch Springs [25kg] and Pillow Springs [20kg] as part of the package since these items may not be sold individually? Otherwise, they may throw in different tension springs which will not meet the same specs.
2. Do I need to buy the Bell Clutch separately or does it comes with the HiTClutch?

I had a Aprilia SC250 before I bought my MP3-500. The SC250 uses the same quasar engine as the MP3-250 although on a much lighter bike. I got a dramatic improvement with the JCosta and is the reason I felt comfortable putting one on my 500.

Hi, This is Sam from Hong Kong! I'm a newbie to this forum!! I'm a 400ie rider, nice to meet you all!

After reading a lot about the mods all of you riders did to your bike, i'm really excitied to start thinking on how to mod my bike!

However, i'm really poor with my technical skills and mechanics knowledge...so i'd like to ask for help here from the experts.

I'd like to do the HiT clutch + Variator upgrade but after reading posts and photos, i want to make sure if i can do it myself...or not.

For the HiT clutch, i cannot find any instuction on how to install it...is it easy to do it like the variator upgrade shown with photos? I have the Service Manual of the bike but that's too complicated for me ...

For the Variator, do i really have to buy that variator holding tool? as i can see the other member doing it without (https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic36495?sid=c1631ecfe693206079c3ff5541139b0f)

I'm sorry for my poor English but i really want to know more before i do any damage to my bike

Thanks
Sam

Actually, after reading more posts here, i found that if i have an impact wrench, it's not necessary to buy the variator holder or clutch holder tools to replace the variator and clutch?

I have a torque wrench on hand which support up to 130Nm and i dont know if that is enough for the job...if not, i can go buy an impact wrench with maximum 160 to 170Nm output... but before i buy the tools, i really need to know what tools i really need on hand to finsih the job easier.

Please HELP!!!!

I'm no mechanic, but I've seen the job done about 4 times now (poor Cheeky T) and it seems you need to use the clutch holder to keep it in the correct position while you use the torque wrench.

I believe Piaggio state 160-175Nm.

Oh, i'm using a 400 but not 250, i still need a Clutch holder? My HiT + SR is coming this weekend, i really need to know what i should prepare to install them onto my bike...

Thanks anyway!

I was talking about the 400. My current scooter that has had all the variator work is a 400.

I have installed 3 variators in the last year. You do not need a variator holding tool, but if you are inexperienced with tools it will make life easier. That said an impact wrench will make life MUCH MORE easy.

A torque wrench is totally different and will not help you any more than an impact wrench.

The whole process can take about 30 minutes if you have the right tools on hand. It really is only about 10 screws and a couple bolts, just remember if you take something off the scoot remember what order it came off on and put it back correctly.

I am not an expert at all so excuse me if I'm wrong, but I've been told by mechanic and by performance techs that sold me the JCosta variator that the torque setting with which the variator is fixed is very important. Does an 'impact wrench' allow you to select the torque setting?

Someone like Cheeky T needs to weigh in here

A torque wrench isn't needed to take the variator off - but unless you know the characteristics of your impact wrench it's a Very Good Idea to use a holding tool and torque wrench on re-assembly. Personally I don't - and very few dealers will either.

Get the tool, impacts guns are for loosening and tightening they are NOT torque wrenches and 90% of people over tighten fasteners when using a impact wrench. I learned this at a seminar I went to years ago.

I know Automotive shops that will fire someone if they see a tech putting a wheel on with an impact gun. Techs are not even allowed to use an impact gun with an "Torque Stick". 75-80% of warped rotors on cars are due to some idiot putting on the wheel with an impact gun. Remember this next time you get new tires on your car, then a few months later you get a vibration when braking.

Wayne B

Oh...then i think i should give up the idea of using an impact wrench but use a torque wrench instead...

as the clutch nut need 160 to 175Nm...i should buy another torque wrench with such specification, right?

sorry for being troublesome...i just dont want to make any mistake...

Thanks.

The impact wrench you mentioned earlier would seem OK for the clutch nut (off and on), and will help getting the variator off (plus many other useful jobs on the scoot!).

Never use a toque wrench to loosen fasteners. The shock when tight or stuck fasteners loosen will throw the calibration off over time. Use a breaker bar to loosen fasteners.
My Snap_On man stresses that when selling a torque wrench.

Wayne B

I got the HiT Clutch and SR already today....(just 2 days after i placed my order...marvellous!)

I think i really need the clutch holder to compress the spring between the pulley and Clutch...

it seems like i should leave all these upgrades to my friend's garage rather than do it by myself...as even if i have the torque wrench/impact wrench/breaker bar...i still have to buy a couples of holders...

am i correct? or those holders would just make the process easier but not a "must" have?

Please help again.