Modern Vespa

I change oil/filter religiously evey 1,800 to 2,000 miles. As some of you remember I touted Mobil 1 T4 10W-40 Racing Oil with 4 ounces of Prolong. Due the the summer heat in SoCal I changed last month to Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 with Prolong. I consistently run the engine on Shell Premium (only) at 6,500 to 7,000 rpm for sustained periods of one to three hours. Flawless performance. I took Wayne's advice after the Malossi Kevlar Racing Drive Belt shredded at 10,000 miles and went back to the OEM. I'm going to replace it again before 16,000 miles. I'm on my third Michelin rear tire. When the front tires finally wear out I'll replace all three with Pirellis.

We folks what have somewhat fewer miles - ok, much fewer miles - should find this good reason to be cheery with our 500. Thanks for the update post.

I've used Prolong for years on many cage rigs and couldn't see any reason not to let Loretta have advantage of it as well, even tho she's rather inexperienced; but so far she likes the extra lube, especially when hot... I still find the stuff to be a remarkable product. Good to see others trust it as well.

I look forward to your future updates.

Dear Bravo,

Thank you very much for your reply. Many riders do not understand the potency of Prolong. I have a very knowledgeable friend who seriously believes it can not be mixed with synthetic lubricants because it is petroleum-based. It is a magnificent product that reduces wear at high rpm to +/-0! Mobil 1 motorcycle synthetic is superior to Cartrol "R" and Shell "M", the premier racing oils of the sixties and seventies. In my opinion nothing else comes close. The nitrogen-charged Shell Premium gas keeps the valve-train spotless. Overall this combination permits me to operate the engine at sustained maximum rpm.

Sincerely,

Alan

Do you really think that if there was any "magical" liquid that could be added to modern oils to make them any better, that the oil companies wouldn't already have it as part of their formulas?

Sorry, but you've been had.

http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html

Other than that thanks for the update

I thought Piaggio recomends an oil and belt change at 6000 miles?

I have 4500 iles on mine and all is well. The standard Run Scoot tires seem to be wearing very well; almost all highway miles.

Ride saafe!

Don't know if the suggestions are correct or if his additive is any better, but I can tell you as a fact that OIL COMPANIES PURPOSELY CHOOSE NOT TO RELEASE CERTAIN ITEMS THAT ARE IMPROVEMENTS. I personally had an experience with the original Duralube(remember the commercial of the inventor running the engines without oil for hours, just residual duralube in them?), but that's another story....Anyways, in the chemical field, I can cite at least 2 cases where patents were bought for huge sums of money simply to keep items out of the field. One notable one back in the eighties were when a team of college research students figured out how to turn coal into a liquid sludge, so that it could be piped across the country instead of hauled by railroad freight. The railroad bought the patent for untold millions and have happily hauled coal ever since. The only place that their patent laws didn't quite hold mustard were on Navajo nation where the process is happily used to pipe coal directly out of the ground. Just some interesting info to consider. Not all inventions or patents make it to the public...some are too 'costly' to the powers that be. Okay...I now return you to your regular broadcast posts

*Goes to put on tin foil hat*

I am more encouraged that you do not mention having the dread "notching disease" during your 15,000 miles. So, it is not apparently, inevitable.
Fingers crossed, and paying attention to the front end as I am approaching the 6000 miles mark soon.

DO NOT USE Prolong in your oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has Chlorine in it, Chlorine will EAT soft bearing surfaces. This my not be as big an issue with these motors and they most likely have all roller bearing, but the Chlorine can still "Etch" roller bearing and cause early failure.

Remember Slick 50 Govt shut them down for this and they are slowly going after the rest of these scum bag companies. But it takes a long time and they changes names and "Re-Invent" themselves.

Update:
Doing more research, looks like the Govt may have already caught up with ProLong on this and the formula may have been changed. But I can't confirm that at this time as the links I find to the FTC aren't working. But they have been taken to court on this already.

Wayne B

True, the tech articles suggest Prolong may contain chlorine. One says: "Unfortunately, many chlorine additive container labels do not state, 'Contains chlorine' Technically, chlorine in its pure form is a gas, so these products dodge the issue by using chlorinated hydrocarbons, paraffin's, solvents, etc. If the additive container label states, 'Contains no PTFE, graphite, molybdenum disulfide or solids', the product may likely contain chlorinated additives." Admittedly, Prolong claims its super-lubricant "Does not contain solid particles such as PTFE resins, 'molys', copper, or graphite." Unless Wayne is privy to the proprietary chemical formula of Prolong there is no indicatioon it actually contains chlorine. There are several comparable additives that do much the same thing as Prolong.

Talk is cheap. Opinions (even mine) are like "you-know-what" cause every one has one (including me). Bottom line: The proof of the pudding is in the riding. 15,000+ freeway miles near or at the red line! Maybe my odometer is malfunctioning from the Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin Oil and Prolong? Go figure. There's certainly nothing wrong with petroleum-based oil. Heck, the engine will run on reclaimed 10W-30 oil.

I don't recommend using Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 or Prolong. I merely reported on the performance of my MP3500ie after 15,000 relentless miles.

Many years ago when I was Product Validation Specialist in the Engineering Department at Yamaha Moptor Corporation, Cypress, CA (and a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers) I represented the corporation before regulatory agencies such as the California Air Resources Board. I analyzed many technical articles regarding fuels and lubricants. I also learned that proprietary information is carefully guarded and companies will file lawsuits to prevent dissemination of proprietary data. If some one has the acutal Prolong formula I would certainly be grateful for a copy of the data so I can judge for myself.

There is no proof in the pudding with only 15,000 miles. Heck if you never changed the oil and only topped it off it would still be running fine.

Wayne B

Well I sure don't feel like I've been had. No one would be more skeptical than me when it comes to product claims and it was well over ten years ago that I had it proven to me that the Prolong product performed amazingly well in many circumstances. This occurred in a professional work environment where the company I was with chose to use the product as an additive to Mobilube SHC634 in hundreds of wormgear transmissions in severe duty applications - after considerable testing the proof was evident and I subsequently started using it in many of my personal applications as well. I remain convinced of its ability to enhance lubrication qualities of natural and synthetic oils.

Are there scams out there? Sure. Is any additive better than another? Sure, which also means some are far worse than others as well (we all know the Slick50 scam). Bottom line is skepticism towards any extraordinary claim is healthy, which could and should result in surprises on occasion - which happened for me this time. I balanced the empirical, coincidental and anecdotal evidence with hearsay and experience best I could before making up my own mind - as should anyone (and clearly many have). I don't think Prolong is the ultimate lubricant and would never run my engine sans oil on purpose or expect any engine to run without lubricant, but as an additive its got qualities that I'd rather have and not need, than need and not have.

Dear Bravo Two Four,

Thank you for your input.

Here's Prolong's claims:

Does Prolong Engine Treatment have chlorine in it like bleach does?
No, although competitors have shamefully and inaccurately tried to make consumers think so by ridiculously showing bottles of bleach being poured into engines or referring to chlorinated or olefin paraffins as chlorine. For decades, tribologists -- lubrication specialists -- have known that CP's or chlorinated paraffins provide the most superior lubrication. The drawback to this approach was instability at extremely high temperatures. Enter Prolong Super Lubricants; with a revolutionary Aromatic Petroleum Distillate unique advanced technology. (View Prolong's Technology Here) The incomparable Prolong formula received the "1a" rating--the highest possible--on independent laboratory testing designed to determine the corrosivity of liquids when applied to metal, demonstrating the products are non-corrosive. The heart of Prolong AFMT technology is its unequaled chemical stability, providing the user with the best of both worlds.

Did Prolong get sued or fined by the FTC?
No, the facts are that the FTC thoroughly investigated all of the tests and evidence that supported Prolong's product claims in much the same manner as going through a very detailed IRS audit.
1. Prolong has never been sued or taken to court by the FTC.
2. Prolong has never been fined by the FTC.
3. Prolong did not make false product claims.
4. No employees of Prolong were found to have violated any FTC regulations.

We recognize how important the FTC's role is in protecting consumers and understand reasons for the extensive examination of all products in the engine treatment category. The end result of this activity can also strengthen the credibility of a company and product as well as provide consumer knowledge. In order to satisfy the concerns of the FTC staff after they had expended valuable time investigating all of Prolong's product claims, Prolong entered into an agreement with the FTC in which Prolong promised that it would rely on "adequate scientific evidence" to substantiate its' product claims. No fines were assessed. No suits were filed by the FTC against Prolong. The agreement was entered into in early 1999. Nine years have passed with complete cooperation.
Prolong Super Lubricants distinguished its conduct and had a much different experience than many of our competitors. The following products had claims that the FTC complained were false or unsubstantiated. The product owners were sued by the FTC and eventually entered into settlement agreements with the FTC and agreed to pay the following fines:
Date Product Name How the Case was resolved
1978 STP Oil Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $500,000
1995 STP Engine Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $888,000
1997 Slick 50 Engine Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $10,000,000
1999 Motor Up Engine Treatment Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $100,000
2000 DuraLube Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $2,000,000
2003 zMax Power System Sued by FTC, Settled, Fined $1,000,000

wow! thanks for the heads up. i didn't realize that about the other "treatments". I do use Royal Purple Synthetic in my 250 Vespa. seems to hold up well in the Alabama heat.

To BravoTwoFour and Idefendm, if using these products makes you feel all safe, warm and gooey inside then by all means continue. The only thing you are (hopefully) hurting is your bank balance.

I'm with WayneB, a new engine kept topped up with good oil would make 15000 miles no problem.

The only place I would like a bottle of Prolong is in the bedroom

Why,
Why,
Why oh why do folk try to 'get something extra' by adding unproven things into their engines? Use the manufacturer's recommended specifications when introducing petrol, oil etc. Trusting some third-party who is only out to sell their own snake-oil is madness. Your wallet of course...

Numpties.

All that stuff is nothing more than snake oil. You'll probably do more harm than good by adding anything to your oil. You should only put good, quality oil that meets the manufacturer's specifications..........and nothing more.

Read this:
http://www.freedomlubeinc.com/SiteMapFiles/OilAdditives.html