Modern Vespa

File Under: Missed Connections

Listen, I can appreciate your enthusiasm for the Tour de France. It's cool. I've been known to dust off the basketball and hoop a little during the NBA playoffs or March Madness, but hey... there is a difference. My dumb ass doesn't dribble through a 4 way stop as I drive to the basket for a lay up.

My Primavera may look small, but as I took that left turn yesterday you were almost flattened as you ignored everyone at the intersection in your freshly purchased spandex. Maybe your legs hurt form the fresh razor burn and you needed to keep them cool with the flowing wind? But, mark my words moron... These brakes are 30+ years old and you assumed a whole lot when you ran that stop sign. If I would have highsided onto the pavement you'd have been dodging my helmet and any other projectile I could have found.

Unless you are in a peleton with police escorts you had better effin' take the time to follow the rules of the road to some minor degree. I am cool with a rolling stop if you were there first. No worries. But your dumb ass was last to the party yesterday, and you didn't even break stride. Grow up dude. No one thinks your cool just because you are rocking all the gear and peddling for 5 whole miles through the burbs. More importantly, the bubba in the F350 that was behind me last night, pulled over and asked if I was OK. Then he opined: "Man, I think I mighta accelerated if he'd done that to me." Not all folks are so even keeled as myself down here in the Redneck Riviera.

Live Strong Lance (I can't wait until the Tour ends and you get back on the golf course).

Tell me about it....
I'm into sharing the roads with 2 wheelers (even if they are bicycles), but most bicycle riders I've found don't even show the slightest inkling to follow the rules of the road.

They just speed through red lights at major intersections.

Don't even get me started on the messenger bike riders.

...well, if you can decide in the split-second you have, whether or not it will look like the other guy's fault, then why not

i've been cycling way, way, way longer than i've been riding a scooter, still use my bicycle regularly for trips under 5 miles or so, and show the utmost respect for cyclists as i'm aware of the dangers they face on the road.

about a year ago i put up a similar post when a rule-breaking cyclist ran into me on my scooter, cussed me out, and took off. most of the responses i got were very supportive but a few assumed that it must have been my fault (it wasn't), that i was obviously a cycle-hating moron asshat, and flamed the crap out of me. be ready

While I don't think bicyclists should completely ignore the rules of the road, there is one very important difference that regulations don't really take into account:

Bicycles are people powered, not engine powered.

So when a car or scooter comes to a stop sign and starts again, it's a mere twist of the hand or push of a gas pedal. For a bicyclist, it's real work to get started again.

And when you consider most stop signs are there to control speeding cars, they don't make sense for bicyclists.

Again, I'm not saying they should be above the law (or common sense!), but it's a hell of a lot more work to constantly stop and start a bicycle at every other block.

Just something to think about.

true, but it's by no means a valid excuse for caning it through a stop sign or traffic light unless you're the only person around.

Guy passed two or three cars in his lane that were stopped and waiting for their turn at the intersection. I couldn't even see him until he shot passed the front car and I was well into my turn. That just can't be justified.

I have no beef with cyclists in general. I just have a beef with idiots. This rube was the latter not the former...

I'd have thought it would be even harder work to get started again after untangling themselves from the front bumper of a Ford pickup

As a cyclist and a scooterist I am sorry for my fellow cyclists disregard of everyone else's safety. Here most of us preach "rules of the Road" but for some reason we get a few cyclists that think they are trying to prove a point, i guess. who knows. I love my self too much to run red lights, and I do roll through stop signs BUT if a motorized vehicle is around or approaching i always yield to them.

But again i wish that the guy would realize what an ass he makes all cyclists look like.

Nah, I wasn't excusing this particular instance. Just trying to get people to think about what it takes to power a bicycle.

Although the law (in the US) says you have to obey all moving vehicle traffic regulations, does that really makes sense when you're people-powered?

I don't think so.

I came to Paris a couple of years ago, and waited at every red light, on my push-bike and on my vespa, like a nice little Brtish person.

But it is not safe to do that here. You have to be alert to the muppets cutting across you at the start, or even not stopping at all. Or reversing. Reversing cars, i have came to the conclusion, do not need to follow any rules of the road. Especially if they are Smart cars. (They're not Smart, they're Selfish)

Now, when I have my wee boy on his bike out in town, we run most pedestrian lights, giving way to pedestrians of course, and we turn right on red. I think it is safer for us.

I know it is wrong to break the rules, and it is really hard to explain to an eight year old why some red lights can be driven through, but that is the way it is.

i think it's highly context-dependent. in quiet areas with little pedestrian and/or vehicle traffic i agree it doesn't always make sense to ride as though you're in a car. in busy areas, however, it's vital that all road users are singing from the same hymn sheet. the consequences of making your own rules can be deadly.

I think that it's the only solution, UNLESS/UNTIL there's a third space for cyclists to use (i.e. neither the pavement nor the road). If you're on the road, you've got to follow the rules of the road.

The way I see it is that the onus on cyclists to obey road rules is as much for the benefit of other traffic as for cyclists. I don't want to have it on my conscience that I ran over a cyclist, regardless of whether they were in the wrong or whether it was my fault.

I do understand your point, though.

I agree with Genie that it's context-dependent (which is why I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the original cyclist). For you guys, in London, it's very different from me in the Midwest US.

In the Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, MN, many auto drivers will yield to cyclists at 4-way stop signs. We are behind only Portland, OR, in the number of bicycle commuters (amazing, considering how cold it is here in the winter). So we're very bicycle-friendly and bicycle-aware.

We do have traffic, but certainly nothing like London's.

There are zillions and zillions of 4-way stop signs here, literally at every other intersection. They are meant (unsuccessfully) as traffic calming devices. But they are hell on bicyclists.

So, just as autos should "Keep Seeing Motorcycles" and scooters; autos and scooters should Keep Seeing Bicyclists. And bicyclists should yield to pedestrians, etc.

I have seen more dead cyclists on central London's roads than I have fingers. Some of those deaths were in places where bicycles should not be, or a safer, alternative route was possible. Two were the direct result of the cyclist deciding to undertake a lorry. I got to see the action directly.

A flourescent jacket and a novelty ashtray shaped helmet will not save you if you ride like an asshat.

I hate those spandex freaks who run stop lights and stop signs. There is no telling how many times I have almost been hit by them. Law enforcement needs to target them and teach them a lesson!

One statement: outlaw fixie bikes! They should not be legal to ride on the road.

I was also a long time cyclist before I got sidelined by injuries & it really kills me how arrogant/ignorant many bicyclists are. When an idiot on a fixie cuts me off in a crosswalk & gives me the "hey I've got no breaks brah" treatment, I just want to put a stick in his spokes. Rant over

I've been cycling for many years now (I've not now, and have never been a racing wannabee...I bike for the same reasons I ride my scooter, for enjoyment, exercise, and to get out in the good ol' outdoors) and I've always been aware of that small but annoying portion of the riding public that thinks anything smaller or slower is something that should be ignored, pushed off the road, cut off, made fun of, and generally subject to rude, cowardly, or dangerous behavior. I also understood and supported how bicycle riders sometimes had adopt a bit of forceful behavior for their rightful piece of the road.

But sadly, the behavior seems to have crossed the line into arrogance.

I've seen it myself lately and it's not pretty. I've always given leeway to cyclists and riders, but I've recently seen cyclists assume that everyone is expected to get out of their way no matter what they do, and behave rudely to any driver that doesn't accommodate them. I don't mean to pile on this remark, but when I get on a bicycle, I know that I'm going to have to stop and start at stop signs, convenient or not. Like scooting, I think one of the most dangerous things is being where people don't expect you to be, or doing things people don't expect you to do.

So when I'm cycling, I stop at stop signs. Yeah, I know it's work to get going, but I am doing this for the exercise, right? 8)

Law enforcement needs to target everyone driving dangerously instead of focusing on speeding tickets & expired tabs. They also need to obey the rules of the road themselves in order to provide an example to the rest of us, too bad they don't in my neck of the woods. Rant now truly over.

Dunno what the law is in other states, but WI, pushbikes must ride single file on the road. The other day, I was held up behind a car that was waiting for an opportunity to pass to dickheads riding side by side, in the middle of the lane. Even with a car and a motorcycle honking their horns at them, they DID NOT move. I shouted at them and got the finger from the asshat that was furthest out. My wife has seen them, too.

If those two dipshits would follow the rules, they might realize the advantage of drafting. Yes, it is possible on pushbikes; I've done it, it kicks ass!

True, but if you bike 5 miles to work, that's 50 intersections. With every other intersection a 4-way stop, that's 25 stops and starts. Instead of aerobic exercise, it's more like resistance training.

It's absurd for a bicycle to do that, when the feature is designed to slow cars down.

Fixie rider lies. His legs are his brakes!

That said, I also have a front brake because it is dangerous to ride off the track without one.

And it is no big deal to stop like most other motorist and scooterist, just roll to a near stop and take off again.

I ride bicycles quite a bit and have many 2 and 4 way stops on all of my various routes. I always (even if nobody else is around) stop at stop signs. I realize that I am, unfortunately, in the minority as I see cyclist blowing through stop signs all the time.

What I typically do is ride through the stop sign when the car in my lane gets the right of way. I feel much safer going with another car since many cars don't recognize my legal right of way.

Just like idiot motorcyclists and scooterists give the good ones of us a bad name, idiot cyclists give good cyclists a bad name.

They are not cyclists, they are pedestrians on two wheels.

???

I don't understand that statement.

I don't get it either. So a scooterist is a pedestrian on a scooter? When a pedestrian gets in a car, is he or she still a pedestrian?

Just because they ride something with two wheels with pedals does mean they are a cyclist.

Especially when they act like a pedestrian.

Ahah, now I get it

Yeah, I think there needs to be a compromise between a complete stop (ludicrous for bicycles) and just blowing through a stop sign without looking (crazy-dangerous).

I really don't mind a bicycle running through stop signs at a quiet intersection.

But the guys in spandex who cruise through a very busy intersection (Kenmore square for all who know the area) at about 20mph scare the shit out of me. I nearly hit them multiple times and they could care less. They just wave their middle finger at me.

I was a bicycle commuter for decades before switching to scootering

[start rant]
Weekend racers in spandex have always infuriated me!
I see the problem as those contraptions they use to fasten their feet to the pedals

Most of the folks who use these things, blow through stop signs in a clearly unsafe manner,
rather than troubling to disengage their foot from the pedal

My opinion (in the mostly suburban areas where I have ridden): unless you are a real hardcore bicyclist
(who thus has developed the skills to remain upright while barely moving),
you should fully obey the traffic signals, just as you should on your scooter

Otherwise you are often a danger to yourself & others
[/end rant]

Apologies go out, in advance, to those I've offended

They would care more if they got wiped out by a car or motorbike that middle finger won't help them at all, in hospital

It's absurd for a bicycle to do that, when the feature is designed to slow cars down. [/quote]
They are not there to slow cars down, they are there to make vehicles stop.
That is why they are called "STOP" signs. The purpose is to make traffic at intersections be self regulating. Stop, check for others, proceed in turn. Unfortunately it is not just bicycles that blow through stop signs, in my neighborhood I have been nearly hit by bikes, motorcycles and tourists who run through stop signs, but stop at intersections with out any.
When I rode a human powered bike years ago I would try to choose a route with the least amount of stopping needed. I also learned to follow all traffic laws. I got stopped going the wrong way down a one way street with no other traffic. Except for the police car that stopped me.
I also see a lot of the cyclists who ride on the street until they come to a red light, then go up on the sidewalk and through the pedestrian crossing like if they get hit it will matter that they were in a crosswalk.

If a cyclist wishes to risk their life (and possibly the welfare of others), they do so at their own peril. By blowing through an intersection they are willfully (and knowingly) breaking the law and will simply have to live (or die) with the consequences.

I don't think there is any question about who's right and who's wrong in this instance. If I ran into a cyclist by accident who had blown through an intersection without any concern for himself or others ... I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep over it. If I got hurt or my scooter were damaged as a result, I would sue his ass off! If the rider got killed in the process, I would sue his estate. No sympathy here for those who disregard the rules of the road. They apply to all of us equally!

I wish I rode my bike more. Since I bought my scooter the bloody thing rarely comes off the rack in the garage. I would say that the level of vulnerability I feel on the bicycle makes me ride in a way that I take my position in the traffic, not in the gutter. I don't shoot ped crossings or red lights at speed however I do cross with the pedestraians when I can. I sort of switch from road user to pedestrian to cyclist however I do it with care for the users I am interacting with - because I can.

I agree, giving the finger to a 26 wheel juggernaut is of little use when you are lying in the emergency room having your body put back together.

I do get pissed off with fellow cyclists who ride without a care for any road user or pedestrian. I put these jokers in the same category as tiger tamers Siegfried & Roy. If you do that shit long enough one day you will get bitten.

Its the bike messengers that scare me. Pedestrians what pedestrians?

I apologize for the idiot that ran the stop sign and you almost hit. As a serious cyclist (yes I wear spandex, race 46 weekends a year, and shave the legs) I admit that was stupid, foolish and an asshat thing to do.

But I am also disappointed by some of the generalizations in this topic. Not all or most spandex wearing, leg shaving 'Lance wannabes' break all the traffic rules, ride two abreast (which even in Wisconsin is legal. There they can ride no more than two abreast and as far to the right as deemed safe and practicable). Most of us do follow the rules of the road. But as my dad used to tell me as a kid "It only takes one 'Oh Shit' to erase 100 'atta boys'."

It's called selective memory. We remember the guy who runs the stop sign, or hogs the lane because he annoyed the shit out of us. But we probably never even saw or registered the other hundred riders we passed in the last month that were obeying the rules, because they didn't annoy the shit out of us.

So before you go lumping us all together as asshats, remember only a real few of us are. In the U.S. there are 15 million recreational cyclists who ride 3 or more days a week. If we were all asshats, there'd be a lot more bitching.

Personally, stop signs and signals don't bother me. Gives me a chance to practice track stands (standing in one place without moving the feet off the pedals) and to do interval work between lights and signs. Plus it's funny as hell to keep pace with the kids in the pimped out mid-90's P.O.S. Mustang who keeps getting madder at each light when he can't shake you.

Off my soap box now.

Vinny (who uses his GTS to haul his bike to races every weekend and 140 miles one way to race each Tuesday during the summer.)

+1. I also agree with your statement about suing them if involved in an accident, as he/she were an asshole.

[Rant begin

As for the other posts, there seems to be an underlying "hate" against cyclists, which surfaces with their vitriolic language against "spandex" people.
I'm an avid cyclist. I've been cycling by many more years than scootering.
In fact, I commute twice a week on my bicycle, and the other three I do in the Vespa. So, whining about an idiot and making a generalization is fucking annoying to people like me, who enjoy both means of transportation.
And yes, I do wear spandex and clipless pledals, and my bicycle is all carbon, etc. I don't have a fixie, but I don't hate any cyclist, just because it is different from me (where have you heard this statement before ).
When it comes to a 4-way stop sign, you need to use your judgment, and when in doubt, be safe (ie full stop).

End of Rant]

That was a great post, and im rather quite surpised by some of the replies. Knowing how critical it is for us 2 wheeled riders to ride defensivley, because it could acutally be our last, and that is no dramatization, its the truth, we should all know better. Ive seen the aftermath of a bike/car accident at work. That kind of humbles you a little and reminds you how important it is to cover your ass and watch out. Such arrogance. You know people like that arent long for this earth

Both of us are a little fuzzy on the rule. The two cyclist I wrote of were indeed impeding traffic.

FTR, I used to cycle every day, until a car accident damaged my wrists, causing severe pain when I ride. Lame excuse, I know. Someday, I'll get a 'bent and resume riding again.

I know there are many more cyclists that don't piss off motor users, but the ones that do, stand out, just like the asshats in cages that piss us off.