Modern Vespa

Excuse my language but I'm pissed.

A bunch of name calling (all around) by several people over their opinion on whether or not to 'speak' harshly to someone who rode with a bald tire til it exploded (thankfully no one was injured) has now driven a well respected (IMHO), intelligent contributor off the board! That is crazy.

If you want to read the original thread it's https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic49156?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40 It's locked now but readable.

No need to add to the hissy fit.

It was robust debate which someone's self- admitted pride coudn't take.

Enough.

Robust debate...that didn't get mediated soon enough. I believe a moderator should of jumped in sooner and not let the thread go as long as it did. I'm not saying right or wrong on anyone's side but that is the job of moderators. To keep it civil so no one should ever feel personally attacked. The fact that it got as far as it did to drive off a well respected (at least by me) contributing member is just not right by my book.

In which case I apologise - I moderated as best I could by my lights (which are admittedly quite robust).

It might be a good lesson in not diving in to 'defend' someone who is actually quite capable of conducting his own debate.

What would you have said, and at what point in that discussion?

[addition]
And how often do you want moderators poking their nose in?

I'll throw my 2 cents in and say that someone whom has less than 10 posts and is mothing off should have been taken down a notch or 2. I can recall a nother person or 2 who is now banned for rude behavior.

I actually couldn't believe it when I saw that jimc was the moderator of the site. He has always been known as one of the most rude and quick-tempered posters on here. He might know MP3s inside and out, but that doesn't qualify him to be moderator. You all are now seeing the results of that.

I feel really bad about this one. I sort of started the whole thing and he jumped in to agree. I saw it was going bad so I just looked the otherway. Easy to criticize others on a forum when you are not face to face.

Every one makes mistakes. We all learn from these. To think you are above them is really putting yourself and others at risk!

We might have to start a section like the ADVRIDER forum Jo Moma forum. Where anything goes. Jezz this is a Vespa forum!

Hoping that Lutherhoss comes back soon. He has been a great help to me and others.

Cheers,
Jill

Not every moderator is on here 24/7. Unlike many other threads, there were no 'reports to moderators'. I took an interest in it, and smacked down where necessary - yes there some removed posts, one from luthorhuss.

If you don't like the moderation, go elsewhere, we do the best we can, and in this case frankly I think the 'newbie poster' (who is a very experienced rider) was bang on the button.

Don't forget, you've got five tyres to check every day...

p.s. - if something is 'done and gone' it's not such a good idea to start a new thread complaining about it. Just prolongs the hurt.

Knowing exactly when and how to step into a conflict is never easy, and that thread spun out of control very quickly.  It's easy in hindsight to think that the newcomer's behavior called for an earlier and stronger correction.  I was following that thread live, though, and I don't think I could have handled it any better than JimC did.

I agreed with LuthorHuss that the newcomer was out of line, but it was also clear that Luthor was letting his anger get the better of him.  I think Luthor contributes a lot here, and I hope that he'll be back once he's had a chance to cool off.

I feel kind of bad for the same reason as Jill, I weighed in saying something that I MEANT to mean that we all do dumb things from time to time and a little negative reinforcement along with a lot of positive support are both to be expected in a community of grown-ups. I do stupid, blonde stuff on quite a regular basis and get grouched at by my curmudgeon-in-training of a husband for it. I counteract him with the warm fuzzy rainbow and unicorns bit, so our children will either come out with split personalities or fairly balanced . Luthorhuss certainly has the right to react in the way he feels appropriate, and I don't know the other guy - his one foray out of lurking seemed a bit aggressive to me. Sorry to all if I added fuel to the fire.

Luthorhuss is a good assett to this forum, he brings in alot of doable ideas for everyone, tells us of his mistakes and perils and what he has learned so everyone else can learn as well. I have been riding m/c's for over 40 years and having talked to him, rode with him, had a beer with him, he is a good guy. He has quite a few posts here as well a credit to his longivity.
steveo comes in 1 day makes 1 post and blasts someone else then continues on and a mod should have jumped in and put him in a time out.

My point of starting a new thread is not to point fingers (nor rehash the locked thread) but to point out things went wrong and we lost a good member of this community.

There is more than one moderator on MV so it was not specific to JimC my comment.

I hope Luthorhuss reconsiders and comes back with his great tutorials and enthusiasm for riding and sharing his adventures with his MP3 and with us.

while he might be an experianced rider he wasn't experienced here. Noone has ever heard from him till today when he signed up and made his first post a blast to somone. not a good way to introduce yourself on a forum. this ain't the internaniotnal scoot bbs. even in jess's rules he asks newbies to take a back seat for a while to get to know folks and such.

as he might talk a mean "experienced game have you ridin with him of do you personaly know him?

Thanks lostboy.

I could have pretended not to have agreed with steveo, and slapped him down. But I don't do pretence, and what he originally wrote (still visible) is very close to what I would have said, he just got there first.

smrf, you just have to accept it's always a judgement call. If anyone gets upset by what they read on a forum such as this, even as a reply to one of their 'spoutings', then tough, frankly. Perhaps they should have chosen their original words better with regard to the target audience.

And I will always blast an admission of outrageous neglect of the condition of a motorbike of whatever sort as close to criminal, and support those who take the same line.

BTW, this very topic shows what a Kludge web-forums are. There is just the one 'thread' - no subthreads, or threading according to MIDs or whatever. Well thought out replies get posted after another half-dozen 'me-too' gang-joining ones with no hint as to what they were replying to unless they contain a quote.

Are you kidding me! He egged on steveo not once, but twice.

I personally loved the thread. Couldn't wait to read the next post. I didn't realize the emotions were that strong behind the words. As strong as it was it didn't seem to get to the juvenile level too much which I appreciate! I love informed debates.

Hope all becomes OK
Mike

With my limited experience with the MP3 The bald tire can go through to the cords in just a couple of miles and catch you off guard. It happened to me. It was through to the cord in a heartbeat. IMO. I am just glad the outcome was good. Maybe someone learned from his post.

R.B.

And now I am bowing out of this thread before this discussion gets "robust" and someone's feelings get hurt :lol: . Y'all enjoy!

All Ok. One hissy fit (sad and unexpected) and one daft new thread created (this one).

Work out who the strirrers really are.

Put in context, there was a thread about dogs on bikes. That got just as heated, but no potential human life threatened.

Then a thread about taking tyres to the limit. Human life definitely potentially threatened! Expect robust debate.

Troll-spotters will then see who posts a new thread about an old one, just to twist the knife. Quite surprising sometimes.

Jim just tells it like it is. Refreshing, actually.

Smrf is a troll? With 944 posts?

She provoked many a reply - the bait was taken by myself as well.

It would have been better just left alone. Mea Culpa.

As one of the 'participating' parties, I don't feel it's right for me to put this thread out of its misery, but I'll ignore it from now on, make mayhem while you can...

Wow JimC, I just read Steveo's first post, his first ever, and I'm pretty surprised that not only did you allow that kind of personal attack to go on, you flat out said you agreed with him.

Jess has made it pretty clear that personal attacks are off limits, and that new posters should earn their stripes, so to speak. Apparently you know Steveo personally, and so you gave him more leeway than some longtime posters, who you now consider trolls because they are calling you on it.

You are always one who likes people to take their medicine, so turnabout is fair play. Just admit you were wrong and move on....and not for "taking the bait" but for piling on instead of moderating.

We do live in the woods BUT thank you for the sentiment Maximus & CafeMoto.

Hmm..started a thread to tell how I was saddened to see a good member like Luthorhuss get driven off and now I'm a knife twister...or worse a knife twister who lives in the woods... NO offense intended to those who do live in woods or do knife twist.

LUTHORHUSS come on back. We'll miss you.

We get blasted for over-moderation, we get blasted for under-moderation. The truth of the matter is that we can't please everyone all the time.

Nor will every moderator always react exactly the same to a given situation. Jim rolls a bit looser than the other mods, but I appreciate his occasionally differing opinion. I DO think Steveo was out of line, but I wasn't the moderator on scene at the time. Jim was. As such, it was his call, and I'll stand by it.

As for the departing member, that's out of my hands. I don't happen to think that stomping off in a huff ever accomplishes much, even when the person is right.

Must be the full moon or something. You guys think this thread got heated, at least it was over something mechanical that could lead to harm. Check out the post on the General Forum about the Pet Carrier (I think this is the one JimC refers to). Starts off asking about heat shield for the Pet Carrier, turns into how to carry a puppy on the back, or how to carry beer in the pet carrier. Then all goes bad! How could a post about puppies and beer go bad!

All I can say is I do not expect the moderator to regulate my behavior or other adults. JimC has great advice and I appreciate that more than editing peoples posts.

Cheers, everyone just go out for a ride and enjoy the day tomorrow!
Jill

I agree with you Jess. As you say, Jim rolls a little looser than some, and he often gives out his brand of medicine no matter what others think. He shouldn't be surprised when his style comes home to roost.

Jim is an uber knowledgeable mod, and one I'm glad to have around. He likes to call a spade a spade, and 9 times out of 10 he's spot on. Everyone misses once in a while, it just does people good to admit it.

I also agree that stomping off doesn't help anyone, I learned that first hand.

May I recommend a good book? It is called The Four Agreements by Miguel Ruiz

The Four Agreements are:

1. Always do your best.

2. Be impeccable with your word

3. Never make assumptions

4. Don't take things personally...

When you deal with the general public on a daily basis, it teaches you some amazing things.

I do appreciate this amazing place called Modern Vespa Forums.. This forum is the main reason I still love my MP3... Warts and all...

((As an aside... I am changing my rear tire this week.... Thank you to all involved...))

been watching the last thread and now this one. people need to learn to separate "feelings" from "fact". and when i say people i mean everyone. the OP of the original thread made an admission that he readily agreed was not smart. I agree with luthorhuss that the antagonist from northern uk was very harsh in his condemnation and i specifically mean using the word idiot...uncalled for. But, i think luthor may have gotten carried away in the heat of the moment...happens to us all at times in our lives.

Enough for the feelings. The fact is that the tire in question was obviously overdriven. The OP as the operator should have seen it but didn't...and admitted that. At the low miles he had on it most of us probably would have been caught...admit it jimc...it could have happened to you too at a certain time in your life.

That doesn't negate the point that the operator was at fault and we all can learn a lesson from his post...

We are all so used to civil debate in MV that when a lurker jumps in with what seems like rudeness we all rally...natural but unessary..been caught in that myself...anyway...next time lets just try silence....it is golden lol

I agree with both Jess and Jim. You can't please everyone all the time. I watched the thread unfold and I might have locked it sooner and maybe not. I'm just a poster here, I don't agree with everyone but I respect your right to free thought. This is a forum and you don't always have free speach, so like Jim said if you don't like it, leave.

Come on StickyFrog. It would be a pretty boring forum if we were silent.
Maybe just a little more considerate. But not too much.

Yeah, what did i say that was contrary to that. debate and be colorful...peace and love and a big stick lol

I am just pissed that no one got to see my clever bury the hatchet pic i stole from another site

oh and smrf honey, (and i mean honey with love) luthor was not the one attacked in that thread originally...

I saw your hatchet.

I know he was defending someone else from being attacked which makes it even sadder that he left for trying to defend someone (whether they needed that assistance or not is irrelevant). He was trying to be nice, friendly, helpful.

Yes, he was. Kind of guy he is.

Webster's Dictionary defines "to moderate" as: "to lessen the intensity of". Just where does "If you don't like it, leave", fall within those parameters. Wouldn't something like, "Let's try to be more civil", have been a better response. And just where is one suppose to leave and go to? Try to find a better site with as much useful info. on something as specialized as the MP3. It doesn't exist, not for the U.S. The U.K. has The Piaggio MP3 and Fuoco Scooter Club Forum. This is it for the rest of US. Hopefully, Luthor will come back to the fold.

i'm always delighted when members take the time to point out what a lousy job the volunteer moderators of this site are doing. Most of us have lives outside MV, and we can't be watching everything all the time. If members don't like the direction that a thread is taking, don't just assume that a moderator is watching, and berate them when they fail to show up at the exact right moment. If a thread seems to be spinning out of control then take the initiative, click on the 'report' button, and let one of us know.

I'm also overjoyed when members take it upon themselves to pass judgment on people they've never met (and whose advice they have probably benefited from) and publicly question their ability to moderate: sorry to single you out mate but you've been a member less than four months and have all of 29 posts to your name. I think your judgment of jim is premature, to say the least.

Well said Genie

I'll take the bait too - but you already expect that of me by now...

Quite frankly, I am stunned at this reaction. Amused by drama queen reaction, but stunned at the same time.

If Luthorhuss (Luthorhuff, maybe?) - a long standing member of this forum - stomps off in a strop after being shouted down by me, an insignificant newcomer, I say boo hoo - you are well shot of him. An immature reaction, at best, and the least constructive thing he could have done. Is that the way to act as an adult?

He jumped on a bandwagon, got himself all worked up. I myself apologised to him, and extended my hand as a peacemaking gesture.

What you don't get is that he went from trying to be nice/helpful to seeing it as an opportunity to donk a newbie. Posturing, that's all it was. Understandable, he's been here a while, it's more his territory than mine. Unfortunately for him, this isn't my first time around the dancefloor - his posts became less and less constructive, turned into a rant, then basically made a fool out of himself by running off to cry behind a bush somewhere.

Seems like a few of you need to toughen up a bit. I hate to spoil the picnic, but this forum could do with shaking up a bit if a potentially fatal act of stupidity can go unchecked up until the point I step in. And seriously, if you get offended by me calling someone an idiot, I think you need to switch off those fluffy TV programs that you watch, and be forced to watch the Die Hard trilogy from start to finish. Every day for a month. John McClane will show you the way...

Think of me as your voice of reason, and I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

Sticky, I saw your hatchet too, very good. It's just a shame that Luthor didn't.

JillRide44, GeorgiaGirl - don't count yourself as culpable, the touchpaper had already been lit by this point.

PS. If we are getting into detail, that wasn't my first post. Sorry, I'm a stickler for facts...

There are two elements here -- the person and their action. It is OK to not dispute an action (like riding on a bald tire) but NOT OK to attack the person and that is what the new poster did.

We all do something we are not proud of later. My bike has been down several times - fortunately, each time at speeds of less than 5 mph. Several could have been avoided if I had been bigger and taller but you can't tell me, "You are too damn small to buy this bike in the first place." I had the money and it was my right. I waited for a demo before I plunked the money down knowing that I was taking a calculated risk.

We post our victories and mistakes here to encourage and forewarn others. Luthorhoss is a valuable asset to this forum and did us a service by letting us know what happened. SteveO, whoever he is, post reflected a young person who believes he has all the answers. Life usually shows them they don't.

I once had a case where the other side had a 16 year old witness that I couldn't shake. He was positive about everything and totally the opposite of my witnesses. I told the jury, "I have seldom seen a witness like Mr. Smith. Never did he say, 'I think' or 'As I recall...' and as I thought about I thought that I wish I could be that positive about anything. And then I recalled, I had been that positive about everything -- when I was 16!" Several members of the jury smiled. They returned a verdict in my favor, virtually disregarding his testimony. I hope Luthorhoss does the same and comes back.

steveo there was no reason for you to take another personal shot at Luthorhuss in this thread.