OP
UTC

Lurker
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI
 
Lurker
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI
UTC quote
Has anyone had a "shuddering" on initial acceleration on a GT 200?
It only happens when you first accelerate.
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
Belt Slippage.

This is very common on belt drive scooters. It's generally caused by humidity and build up of belt dust on your pulleys.

The best cure, although temporary, is to pop of the chrome plastic Vespa cover at the rear of your transmission and blast a little compressed air in there.

Depending on how you ride affects how much dust your belt will create. If you are like me and you speed away from a dead stop rather than ease away, you'll have much more belt wear and more dust and more slipping.

It's just part of the deal.

If you use the search function(very helpful, by the way) and do a search for "shudder"you will find many posts on this subject.
@snapshot05 avatar
UTC

WHOoligan
1985 PX200E Arcobaleno : 2010/14 GTS300 S: RIP GTS250 @ 40K
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6695
Location: Los Angeles Kings, Stanley Cup Champions X2
 
WHOoligan
@snapshot05 avatar
1985 PX200E Arcobaleno : 2010/14 GTS300 S: RIP GTS250 @ 40K
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6695
Location: Los Angeles Kings, Stanley Cup Champions X2
UTC quote
Also stray air in the bottom holes and the belt air filter.

You can use BrakeKleen Brake cleaner as well, Nyle turned me on to this, but when I do I use the green can, its non residue.
UTC

Enthusiast
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 98
Location: Eugene, Oregon
 
Enthusiast
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 98
Location: Eugene, Oregon
UTC quote
This has been a problem for me since about the time I hit 1000 miles. The dealer claimed complete mystification about the whole subject. Upon contacting VespaUSA the word came back that this was rare and a problem that only effected larger or heavier riders. I posted something on MV last fall but got few answers, maybe because as it turns out this had been discussed at length several years previously.

Early on (1500 miles) the dealer replaced the rollers which they said had a lot of flat spots for a machine with so few miles. After that I was pretty much told to live with it. This Spring, with about two months to go before the machine was a year old I went in to the dealer and made it plain that I wanted the problem fixed. They again contacted VUSA which authorized complete replacement of the Variator, belt and clutch assembly. That was at about 2500 miles. I now have 3500 miles and in the last month or so I have noticed more slipping or shuddering, especially when doing a lot of repeated starts and stops in town.

So earlier this week I noticed another SHUDDERING thread. It referred to some threads from 2006 where somebody introduced the idea of blowing out the clutch housing with compressed air. Another writer mentioned how he hosed down the housing with Brakleen. I did both of these. The air removed surprisingly little dust. But I couldn't believe how much gunk was washed out of there by the Brakleen. And, it made an immediate difference. The the clutch still slips occasionally with repeated starts and stops, but I can live with that. Thanks to those who posted earlier about this subject.

At the risk of repeating already posted information, here are the threads I followed:
https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic43971
https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic4001
https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic5415
Am I really burning through belts? (Post 88790)
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 810
UTC quote
does anyone know if brake clean would have any adverse affects on seals or remove grease from bearings or anything like that in there. Brakeclean is powerfull stuff.
UTC

Member
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8
 
Member
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8
UTC quote
In one of the threads, someone said that Brakeclean removed the lubrication on something (could not remember) inside the transmission housing. So, I think compressed air is the safest method...
@theoz avatar
UTC

Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
 
Sir Frets-A-Lot
@theoz avatar
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
UTC quote
Seriously.
Tear down the case.
Take off the drum.
Score it with 200 grit sand paper.
Clean it with brakekleen.
Place back in scooter.
Seal up.
Go.
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
TheO.Z. wrote:
Seriously.
Tear down the case.
Take off the drum.
Score it with 200 grit sand paper.
Clean it with brakekleen.
Place back in scooter.
Seal up.
Go.
Assuming you have the tools. http://www.scooterwest.com/item/GT-Tools--Manuals/130/

For many, definitely easier said than done.
@theoz avatar
UTC

Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
 
Sir Frets-A-Lot
@theoz avatar
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11197
Location: Bee eff eee.
UTC quote
astromags wrote:
TheO.Z. wrote:
Seriously.
Tear down the case.
Take off the drum.
Score it with 200 grit sand paper.
Clean it with brakekleen.
Place back in scooter.
Seal up.
Go.
Assuming you have the tools. http://www.scooterwest.com/item/GT-Tools--Manuals/130/

For many, definitely easier said than done.
yes. Correct.

Need torque wrench, variator holders, clutch holders, etc.

TORQUE TO SPEC. No excuses.
@michaelr avatar
UTC

Addicted
2006 GT 200, 2007 BV 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 922
Location: Campbell, California, USA, Earth
 
Addicted
@michaelr avatar
2006 GT 200, 2007 BV 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 922
Location: Campbell, California, USA, Earth
UTC quote
I have 15,000 miles on my GT 200 and it gets a shudder from dust build up in the transmission case especially when I spend a lot of time in stop and go traffic. The 2 easiest solutions are 1) get out on the freeway for 5 or 10 miles at 60 - 70 MPH and that will blow the dust out or 2) remove the chrome "Vespa" cover on the transmission and blow compressed air in the holes. I usually do this with the engine running to stir up more or the dust. This always seems to work great and I do it at least once a month routinely. Of course removing the transmission cover and cleaning everything would be great but the compressed air thing takes about 30 seconds and the transmission cover thing about 45 minutes if you have all the tools. I have to say 30 seconds of compressed air makes a world of difference but you do have to have a compressor. That is pretty much a "must have" item when owning a scooter and they aren't very expensive. Sears has a nice 3 gallon "hot dog" compressor that goes on sale for about $100 now and then.
@cajun_critter avatar
UTC

Hooked
07 GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 276
Location: Denver, CO
 
Hooked
@cajun_critter avatar
07 GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 276
Location: Denver, CO
UTC quote
Can someone tell me if the 250 has this problem, or is it specific to the 200? I would think that all scooters with a CVT would be affected....just curious.
@michaelr avatar
UTC

Addicted
2006 GT 200, 2007 BV 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 922
Location: Campbell, California, USA, Earth
 
Addicted
@michaelr avatar
2006 GT 200, 2007 BV 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 922
Location: Campbell, California, USA, Earth
UTC quote
The transmission is pretty much the same design so I imagine the GT250 would have the same problem but I don't know for sure. Hopefully someone with a GT250 will post something. I have always felt the transmission needs additional air movement through it to clear out the dust. That is why driving at highway speeds does the trick and stop and go traffic causes the accumulation of the dust. At least that is my theory. I have always been hesitant to use anything but compressed air for cleaning it out. Any sort of chemical always made me concerned that I might be damaging the belt or a bearing or something. I know I really got "the shudders" when I was driving through downtown San Francisco but as soon as I got out of town and on the freeway for a while the dust was blown out and everything was fine again.
@woodenhead avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1381
Location: Fraser Valley, BC
 
Molto Verboso
@woodenhead avatar
GT60
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1381
Location: Fraser Valley, BC
UTC quote
For what it's worth I think the trick is to stop the clutch from getting glazed rather than try deal with it once it's happened. The compressed air trick works for me ; it's just maintenance like checking tire pressure.

I suspect most people don't clean that secondary air filter on the front of the transmission case nearly enough. It's inside that plastic air scoop. Air flow will lengthen the life of the belt by helping keep it cool. I don't think that Piaggio even mentions it as maintenance.

cheers
@michaelr avatar
UTC

Addicted
2006 GT 200, 2007 BV 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 922
Location: Campbell, California, USA, Earth
 
Addicted
@michaelr avatar
2006 GT 200, 2007 BV 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 922
Location: Campbell, California, USA, Earth
UTC quote
I think the problem is that at slow speeds, like in stop and go traffic, there just isn't enough air getting into the transmission to clear the dust out. At first I thought possibly a larger intake scoop on the front of the transmission would help but now I just think in stop and go traffic there just isn't a way to get adequate air to clear out the dust. Possibly a small electric fan but then that is making a rather simple design sort of complicated. I had also even thought about installing a valve stem to make it even easier to blow it out with compressed air!
@snapshot05 avatar
UTC

WHOoligan
1985 PX200E Arcobaleno : 2010/14 GTS300 S: RIP GTS250 @ 40K
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6695
Location: Los Angeles Kings, Stanley Cup Champions X2
 
WHOoligan
@snapshot05 avatar
1985 PX200E Arcobaleno : 2010/14 GTS300 S: RIP GTS250 @ 40K
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6695
Location: Los Angeles Kings, Stanley Cup Champions X2
UTC quote
woodenhead wrote:
For what it's worth I think the trick is to stop the clutch from getting glazed rather than try deal with it once it's happened. The compressed air trick works for me ; it's just maintenance like checking tire pressure.

I suspect most people don't clean that secondary air filter on the front of the transmission case nearly enough. It's inside that plastic air scoop. Air flow will lengthen the life of the belt by helping keep it cool. I don't think that Piaggio even mentions it as maintenance.

cheers
My opinion: The air scoop and filter dont allow enough air to flow into the trany case. I think it needs bigger scoot, I currently removed mine altogether, its hot where I live (100F) and I ride the freeways a lot, since removing the filter and riding to and from San Fran, my belt hasnt given me any shutter slippage. The current setup doesnt allow for enough air to keep the belt cool enough and it needs to be replaced sooner.

Manny
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