Modern Vespa

When we were riding teh dragon I noticed a kinda white crud down the side of my engine near the water pump. I called Fuzzy over and we took a dab at it and it wiped off - not a lot, but enough to notice. Contined on the trip with no issues. Two days later I went to ride and made it only 5 miles and I noticed teh fan kicking on frequently - 1 mile later my temp is at 3/4 and the fan is running constantly. Pulled over and tried reaching Chuck at Chattanooga Scooter - dang - not available. So after the bike cooled I went ahead and rode it home without issue. Pulled off the cover and coolant was way down. Took 1.5 pints to fill which is half the rated capacity. No leaks evident running in driveway for about 30 min.
So - I'll take it by to have it looked at because it would seem that loosing all your coolant in 3,300 miles is a bit premature.
Opinions or insights anyone?
Jon

Most common issue is with one or more of the three clamps easily visible on the water-pump cover on the left hand side. Other clamps not so obvious are the next culprits. Worst case is the seal inside the pump housing, and that needs more help than be provided on a forum - except for the tools required etc.

Could be something as simple as those hose clamps to and from the water pump need to be switched out for something a bit more robust.

I believe I've read more than one report about the water pump leaking. Either it comes down to the water pump gasket or the hose clamps. Let us know what you find out. 3,300 miles is quite premature to be a pint and a half low on coolant.

chris

& there ya have it! lol

We must have posted at the same time.

That's the first thing I suspected (the crappy clamps). They do not appear to be leaking. I fear the water pump itself except I can see no coolant under the bike after running it for 30 minutes or so. Any suggestions on pinpointing? Other locations not so obvious?

Glad you posted about this...though not happy you have the same problem as me. My water pump area is leaking pretty bad...well at least to make a stain everytime i park. My fan too has kicked in and my temp gauge went up once last week. I mentioned having it looked at on the last service but the tech didn't get around to it. When I get another day off, I'll have to carry it in to Chuck while the warranty is good(in case its the pump).

Yep - I'll ride it a bit this weekend and then ride by and discuss with Chuck. Good news is I got my extended warranty in the mail today - a relief even tho I have a couple of months left on original warranty. I'm mostly concerned with getting parts in - need to get it done before Piaggio goes on their hiatus in August I think...

I wouldn't worry about your fan kicking in, that is what it is there for.

Primary candidate for the coolant leaking is indeed the jubilee clips. The ones provided at stock are not very good, so inspect them. Also, I would recommend that you get it checked out as soon as you can, the coolant is quite greasy, I found out the hard way that having it spray all over your tyres makes for some interesting riding...

My leak was so slight I rarely saw more than a drop or two ... but over time it will eventually take a toll. I ended up changing all three clamps at the water pump. One at a time and of course it turned it out to be the last one! (else I would have stopped

Mine turned out to be the clamp behind the two most visible.

The fan kicking in, I should have stated, is a bit out of the ordinary in its nature. What I mean is that normally the fan kicks in when I stop at a red light for a bit or after the bike is at a standstill because there's no airflow. This time the fan kicked in when I started the bike up, after it had been parked long enough to have cooled down. I just started it up and VOOOM instant fan and for a LOONG time. This was immediately followed by the temp gauge going above normal and me figuring out that it was coolant.

Exactly. C'mon guys - you don't think we would report on the ordinary do you?
Hmmm like I said I can't see any leakage and it *did* take a year to result in significant loss - albeit probably accelerated loss from our long hard ride through the Dragon. Probably is a gradual leak as stated and not likely to deposit significant amounts on the tire - it *is* a point worth noting tho... Betcha Chuck just replaces them when I take it in...

I don't think you quite answered the question, did you replace the hose clamps? If not, that is what you should do. Then if you are having issues you should take it to the dealer.

It takes 15-30 min. to change the clamps depending on how handy you are, but it is not difficult at all. Rather than cutting the original clamps, I used needle nose pliers to peel them off, careful not to move them back and forth too much so as to avoid cutting into the rubber hose. Once removed (might want to put down something to catch leaking coolant while you do this) then add some screw-type hose clamps and tighten up. Avoid over tightening so as to not crack the plastic.

You're correct - I did not state that I had changed the clamps because I have not. Reason being I see absolutely no evidence that they are leaking. Matter of fact the only "evidence" is something that looks like water trails on the engine block causing concern that it is in fact the water pump. In any case I am about due for teh 3,000 checkup so will get it all addressed at the same time under warranty. I have too many issues going on right now to be piddling with a scooter in the sun and humidity. If the bike was out of warranty then I'd be tearing it apart for sure.
Jon

Each time I replaced a clamp, I couldn't see immediately where the leak was from. It seems when the leaks first start it only happens when the coolant gets most pressurised - which is after the engine is switched off and it is no longer being circulated. This is why you often only see a few drops after a ride, and only on bits of the engine/floor that have now cooled down enough not to evaporate the coolant.

If however it appears to be coming from the water pump, then heed cheekythomas's words:
https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic39593?highlight=water+pump+seal#537488
and:
https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic41100?highlight=water+pump+seal#557649

What's ordinary to one man isn't necessarily the same to another.

I've had the fan kick in before on startup which I thought was odd, until I was told that this was fairly normal as the coolant continues to heat while the bike is standing - with the bike off, the fan is off too, providing no cooling - makes sense as parts are still hot. With no fan, and no coolant circulation, coolant heats up. Once the bike it started again, the fan kicks in to cool the system.

Also, check your front left mudguard - any coolant there also?

Actually - if the coolant *in the radiator* gets too hot, the fan can kick in while the bike is off. The fan is continually powered, and is not via the ignition switch.

However you're dead right that after switch-off is when the coolant in the engine gets to its hottest. Try riding hard on a hot day, stop for a ciggie, then switch on again without starting - the temp-gauge bars will be hard over to the right! All gets sorted within a few seconds of starting and circulating coolant again.

Interesting - I've never got the fan to kick in while the bike is off... Didn't know it was coninually powered! Cheers Jim. Hmm, have done that before - a ciggie break seems just the right amount of time to get the temp guage flashing after a hard run (or as I found out last week, a stop/start run in traffic, behind a very wide classic Mustang that was kicking out more heat than the sun)

I am never above asking the dumb question. Is it possible to get to that third hoseclamp without removing the two hoses in the front of it? Looks iffy, but sounds like that is what you guys are doing.

Yes, the small clamp at the back is easy to change while the other two remain in place.

I also had a leak but it wasn't any of the hoses, it was the seal on the pump. The part was covered under the warranty. Replace the hose clamps, but keep an eye on the coolant level just in case it's the pump itself.

I've posted info several times on this site.

I had the same problem. After much discussion with my dealer and Piaggio in NYC, I found out that most of the time coolant leaks from the bottom of the black flywheel cover comes from a bad water pump. I did see a technical review that discussed the problem that came from Piaggio. In the Piaggio document I specifically read that the to solve the coolant leak would require a new water pump. I started tackling this problem in Dec 2008. Took me several months to get to the bottom of the problem. I am from Belgium and called friends in both Belgium and France and apparently this is somewhat of know issue with the dealers in Europe.

You can find some of the info that causes this problem from my posts. The problem is with a bad bearing with lots of play on the internal water pump shaft.

With all that said, my dealer pushed for an answer from Piaggio to the point of getting the dealer's mechanic on the phone with Italy. After a bit of discussion, Piaggio finally relented and very quickly overnighted a new water pump. The mechanic would not drop the issue with them. And for that I am glad, as it would have cost me $700 had I not found the problem during the warranty period. Good luck. Oh...eventually the issue leads to a total water pump failure if the pump is not replaced..

Thankfully only a few bikes have the seal failure compared to those with hose-clamps going. If it still happens with the clamps changed then obviously the seal would be the next culprit, and yes it's a new pump. Apparently the seal design has gone through a couple of modifications, and is now declared good for purpose!

I just checked my coolant level and it ended up needing about 8 oz to fill up. I don't know if thats alot or a little but thanks to the forums I was
at least looking for a possible leak. Hopefully it's just a leak around
the water pump hoses. I wiped everything down good and I'll ride for awhile and then check it over after it sits for a few minutes.