Modern Vespa

I'll get me a T max and then stop at Walgreens for some Just For Men die gel.

Just for men gel/no one can tell/just for men gel.

Didn't mean to offend anyone with the mid-life crisis bike comment. Still, I wouldn't ride that ridiculous looking thing...even if it was a Vespa.

I looked at those and they are very nice but the deal breaker for me was no cruise control. I'm wanting to do long rides but my throttle hand goes numb so I ended up choosing a new bike with a cruise control R1200RT. I did install an aftermarket electronic cruise control on my Burgman.

where's the scooter ?

The FJR does not have a clutch and it is as much as a twist and go as it is a motorcycle. It is more of a joke than anything.

It certainly does have a clutch, just not a rider actuated clutch lever.

The FJR1300AE/AS model features a semi-automatic transmission which Yamaha calls YCC-S (Yamaha Chip Controlled-Shift). This system is a five-speed sequential manual gearbox with a computer controlled clutch that dispenses with the conventional clutch lever. These models have no lever on the left bar and instead have a mountain-bike style shifter operated with thumb and index finger. Gear shifts are completed in around 0.2 seconds. The conventional foot shifter may be used simultaneously. The gearbox pattern is also unconventional in that neutral is at the bottom end of the range. The ECU automatically controls the robotic clutch and ignition timing to ensure smooth gear shifting and will disengage the clutch at standstill. Stalling the engine is not possible.


The auto-clutch version of the FJR is not a 'twist and go'.

There are two versions of the FJR, one is a conventional shifting motorcycle and the other has an auto-clutch, not an automatic transmission.

I don't care for the idea of an auto clutching bike myself, but it is far from a "joke" and is an incredibly competent motorcycle in almost every way, from touring capabilities to sport riding. About the only things a scooter can do that an FJR can't is get 65 mpg and park on a sidewalk without attracting undue attention.[/i]

The best MPG I have been able to get over the last 20,000 miles has been about 45 MPG and I was almost hypermiling. I love having both a scooter and this bike that we ride during the week. When I said the FJR did not have a clutch what I meant to say was that the FJR does not have a clutch level.

You haven't got better than 25 mpg from an FJR1300???????

My Hayabusa would return mpg in the mid 40's if ridden sanely, and it makes an FJR1300 Feel anemic by cpmparison.

Something's seriously wrong with your bike if it only gets you 25 mpg and that's typical for it.

(Sorry, I was responding to your original typo concerning your FJR mpg.....45 is a believable number)

Typo, I tried to change it before you posted. Now the Hayabusa is a fun ride! Insane power. The 45 MPG was with full gear and one rider with cruise control set for about 70 MPH.

This is funny, you've got some great typos going, and I'm chasing my tail reacting to them....I was going after the "poser" one next, but you beat me again!!

I should never type in the position I was in at the time or at least check it before I hit the send button. Typo's are the worst when they become another word that is not something good, like poser vs power but the letter w and s are just too close on this little keyboard. Have a good weekend.

Test ride ends in crash
PUBLISHED BY THE REPORTER
Posted: 07/12/2009 01:00:48 AM PDT

Justin Morrison/The Reporter
Vacaville firefighter/paramedics tend to an injured person involved in a solo motorcycle accident Saturday on Orange Drive. According to Vacaville police Officer Matt Thoma, at approximately 11:25 a.m., the rider, a 50-year-old male Vacaville resident, was exiting the Harley-Davidson dealership on the 600 block of Orange Drive when he suddenly accelerated and lost control of the bike. Witnesses said the rider hit the center divide, at which time he was ejected from the bike and came to rest in the bike lane of westbound Orange Drive. The investigation is ongoing, although Thoma said the newly licensed rider was on a test ride and the accident could be due to rider inexperience. A CALSTAR air ambulance transported the rider to UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento. He was wearing a helmet at the time of the accident.

Tried out a TMax. Didn't like it...
Sure, it's fast. But also HEAVVVVY! -A real clumsy bear at slow U-turns!
Also the seat and floorboards are very wide; I had to splay my legs way out to get my feet down flat,
and in doing so the edges of the floorboards dug uncomfortably into my inner calves!

I see it as a bigger, faster scooter for those who are larger, stronger, and/or younger than myself,
and who want a sportbike style without the leaning forward and down position of crotch-rocket motorcycles.

Not really my thing at all...

Is this the "shooting ones mouth off indiscriminately" thread, or not? Or are you exhibiting irony? It's sometimes hard to tell.

Some call it shooting one's mouth off indiscriminately; some call it expressing one's opinion. Irony is in the eye of the beholder. I'm more than happy to keep you guessing...

As I mentioned in another thread, definitions lose their meanings when they are stretched beyond recognition. The definition of a scooter has indeed been stretched beyond recognition in recent years.

The term'Scooter' has several 'correct' meanings as it pertains to wheeled vehicles, some of which aren't even two-wheeled, but in the form of electric 'mobility scooters' for the aged and handicapped have at least four wheels.

Then there is the original 'Scooter', which predates any motorized type, and generally consists of steel roller skate trucks screwed to a wooden plank with an upright steering rod topped with what can be described as rudimentary 'handlebars'.

Besides, the new, larger, and perhaps unconventional 'scooters' aren't going to replace the more traditional variety of small, utilitarian, economical, urban vehicles that they've almost always been, they're an expansion of the genre's scope, and should be viewed as such rather than a threat to the status quo.

You may call the meaning of the word 'scooter' as "stretched beyond recognition", I suppose.......or you could also say the word has 'evolved' to encompass the widening range of motorized two-wheelers that have developed from the small post-war bikes that have become so familiar over the following decades.

When asked, I describe our 650 Burgmans as 'scooters' even though they physically dwarf the stereotypical vision of what most associate with the term, but a Great Dane is still as much a Canine as a Chihuahua whether you personally accept that fact ot not.

A T-max 500 is a 'scooter', as is a 650 Burgman, and the fact that they both have frame-mounted engines doesn't arbitrarily negate every other obvious 'scooter characteristic' these bikes possess. They share nothing with motorcycles other than some vague similarities of size and in some cases, performance.

Motorcycles range from 49cc's to 5.0 liter V-8 monsters, and no one questions whether they are motorcycles or not using some accepted size as the only criteria. Scooters are no different in that way regardless of some perceived rigid tradition of precise form that restricts the genre to what you may ideally want it to be.

I completely understand your argument; I just don't accept it.

Definitions are useful things. They allow someone with whom you are communicating to understand exactly what you mean without using a ton of extra words. "Evolving" those definitions (to use your term) until they are meaningless renders language impotent. By your standards, there would be no problem with calling a Hummer a "sports car", a corn dog "health food", a leisure suit "haute couture", or a dinghy a "yacht".

Ask a man on the street to describe a "motor scooter", and he sure as hell won't describe anything that resembles a Tmax. And that's not because that man is ignorant; it is because the general public has fixed in its consciousness the idea of a motor scooter as an light, economical two-wheeled transport vehicle with relatively small wheels and engine, enclosed mechanicals, and a step-through form factor that allows it to be easily ridden by all sorts of people in street clothes. This is precisely what the scooter was originally developed as, and it is the form factor that Vespa adheres to today because they recognize its advantages (in case you haven't noticed, this IS a Vespa forum). Preserving the integrity of that definition is certainly useful linguistically, even if it orphans you maxi guys. You should be able to come up with a term that more accurately describes the penis extenders you guys like.

I recognize that I'll never convince you of the validity of my argument any more than you'll convince me of the validity of yours. We all have our own biases and viewpoints.

I think I'll bag this waste of bandwidth, and go enjoy a life-enhancing beverage...

I can only think of two things that are common to scooters and not "motorbikes". Feet inboard (and onboard) and no high tank between seat and bars. Just about everything else can be found on both.

So GP800=scooter, Mana(same engine)="motorbike".

But frankly I don't worry much about making distinction between different sorts of PTWs. They are all leaning machines.

If you don't call me to before you set off on these "long rides" I'm gonna be so pissed at you Curt. WHAT!!?? You got a R1200RT? When do we leave on our trip across the country? I must have a test ride some day. I really liked my buddy's 1200GS that he let me ride, but I don't have the funds for a new bike anytime soon.

Good to see you on the board man.

Holy crap!!! I saw/heard/felt one of those yesterday while taking a break from my ride. Very bizarre looking. I can only imagine what it feels like when you ride it.

It's amazing to me that you are every bit the bigot that most Harley riders are. I've noticed the same mentality in other members of this forum. To Harley riders, I'm riding a scooter and, thus, not worthy of my M1 endorsement. To the hardcore Vespa bigot, I'm riding a motorcycle and I don't belong on this message board or at scooter rides.

I certainly have my personal biases (I prefer the handling of scooters that are more motorcycle-like to the handling of "real" scooters). However, I think "real" scooters (especially Vespas) are extremely beautiful, utilitarian devices. I'd love to have a vintage manual shifter.

On the other hand, you view anything that isn't a Vespa as a futile extension of ones penis (your words) and that those of us who own them, should just bugger off.

I'm certainly not going to make any more attempts at trying to convince you one way or another about what is or isn't a scooter. But I really wonder from where this bigotry comes?

My dad's old Virago 535 had a dummy tank that you filled as a normal tank, but the actual tank was under the rider's seat just like a vespa. Blurring the lines between scooter and motorbike even more.

Wow! I guess I just didn't realize that I deserved such a venomous personal attack for what I had considered a reasonable and fairly thoughtful post on this quite interesting subject.

And, of course, you are correct that this is a Vespa forum, so this is one "maxi guy" who will take both his offensive opinions and Penis extenders elsewhere.

It's all yours, my friend.

(and I won't let the door 'hit me on the a$$ on the way out', but thanks for the likely sentiment anyway )

Holy shit did this thread ever go downhill.


Dave

Oh, fer crissake! If that's your idea of a personal attack, your skin must be awfully thin.

Sometimes I get a little bored being Mr. Goody Two-Shoes, and my mischievous streak takes over. I can't resist poking a little fun at the bigger, faster, swoopier must be better crowd.

If this is any indication of the personal insecurities that engender that mindset, then perhaps my comment was right on the mark.

True, but ignoring bigots doesn't work. You have to call them out and let them show their true colours. No-one will convince them of their bigotry, but at least they are then recognisable in the future.

I have a good mate with a Harley, a Burgman 650 and a GTS - he enjoys each one for what it is - they are all 'motorcycles', none of them keep you clamped in a cage. He'll come on one of our scooter rides on the Harley, and will show off his Vespa to his Harley mates. So wotmeworry...

Despite what you may think, I'm not in the "bigger, faster, swoopier must be better crowd". It just so happens that "bigger, faster, swoopier must be better crowd" suited my purposes more than the smaller, slower, poorer handling scooters.

To each his or her own.

I've never argued otherwise... in fact I've made the same point myself.

I just get amused (and amazed, considering that this is a Vespa forum) by the fact that every time a bigger, faster, or swoopier bike comes along, folks seem to be falling all over each other to get their checkbooks out. It's hard to resist the opportunity to poke some ribs when the syndrome definitely appears to be testosterone-related (witness the lack of female participation). I actually thought I was a bit kinder and more thoughtful than some of the other participants in this thread.

The definitional thing is something else altogether, and I've made my viewpoint known.

BTW, I -- as do many other people of both sexes -- also refer to Corvettes, Vipers, Lamborghinis, Cigarette boats, Harleys, 100-hp sport bikes, Hummers, and 24-foot-long, dual-rear-wheel, crew-cab, Cowboy Cadillacs as penis extenders. If that makes one a bigot, then I guess I'm guilty... along with most of the sociologists in the world.

Feel free to pile on. I, for one, have a thick skin.

[quote="Silver Streak"]I can't resist poking a little fun at the bigger, faster, swoopier must be better crowd.[/quote]

I [i]will[/i] say this....I've never been a member of the 'must be better crowd', my choice of scooter or motorcycle has nothing to do with what others ride or like, but with what appeals to me personally, that's how I managed to go through 39 motorcycles over the years...and the 40th..a Burgman 650.

And if you think a 650 Burgman is a 'penis extension', you're in trouble...the 650 Burgman is a well proven 'old guy magnet'. Park it on the street, and that's who'll come up and ask questions about it...old guys, not 'hot babes'. The 650 Burgman is very nice bike, but it's about as sexy as a tray of icecubes down your shorts.

If you wanted to accuse me of [i]needing[/i] a penis extension, you probably should have chosen my second-to-last machine, No. 38, not an underpowered, 600lb, grandpa toy like the Suzuki AN650....it's license plate had more hp than a 650 Burgman could muster on it's best day............I eventually had to sell it after three years because my penis had begun to trip pedestrians in the next county.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v192/JohnBacklund/BUSAATPARK2.jpg

I certainly don't think a Burgman is a penis extender, and I never said so. I agree with you completely... it's quite the opposite. Definitely "old guy magnet" (oh, woe is me... I'll probably be in trouble for this, too!).

As long as I have my foot firmly implanted in my mouth, I might as well put the icing on the cake by opining that "penis extender" machines do not attract hot babes... they attract other guys who think they attract hot babes. "Cute" machines attract hot babes.

Getting myself in deeper and deeper...

I will agree that a Vespa is 'sexy', even if the rider may not be.

A Vespa is a PTW, can we leave it at that?

This is an *inclusive* forum. Forget that folks, and exclusion may be the next step...

Where you screw up here is in the assumption that a 650 Burgman is a step up to a bigger, faster, swoopier bike. I took a 120 horsepower 'hit' when I bought that thing from what I was coming off of, and it's not nearly as 'swoopy' either....though it is longer and heavier.

+1

So! Where were we?

Ah yes...the T-max!

Discuss. 8)

TMax? Great ride, but for me, 'no soul'. Just my very personal prejudiced opinion of course. I'd love to take one on the track, I'd hate to have to ride around Europe on one. Good mechanics, no extra grin.

Hopefully Yamaha will bring one or two of them to the factory test rides at Sturgis this year so I can experience the bike even though I'd probably never buy one.

I kinda (nicely) yelled at them for not bringing a Majesty 400 last year...I mean what the heck, they usually bring just about everything they build to those test rides, even their mongo sportbikes and FJ's come along with the usual cruiser line.

I've never ridden a 400cc class scooter and would really like to try one.

Rode it, loved it. But I didn't want a scoot as big as my bikes so I got a Vespa. Flippin love that.

the only moto that I hated riding was a Harley rental in Maui. But that wasn't the bike's fault, but the shop for completely neglecting any kind of maintenance.

I'll be interested to go head to head with one.

Just back from a local IAM group ride into the twisties of Luxembourg and Germany on my GP800. It beat a Rocket III into a cocked hat. I suspect a 750 TMAX may be a different proposition though...

Jim what is a "cocked hat" ?

Bob

Have you never heard of Google?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocked_hat