Modern Vespa

Well Jess I assume you are discussing our disagreement. You let it be known that you oppose vintage only rallies and would stop them if you could

OK here is what we have done.

There are a lot of classic car and bike shows here. We give them a call and ask if we can bring vintage scooters. Usually they give a cut off date. The few vintage riders get together early to go to the show. The rest of the group shows up later. We talk scooters with everyone, people are glad we came out with the scooters, we all go to lunch and then we all ride home together.

we have never won any show prizes but thats really not why we go anyway

Its fun!

Obviously not all the members of these groups are narrow minded, in fact most of them are really knowledgeable. It's the vocal few that make them look really small.

ScooterRaton,

You guys found something that works because you have people who want to work together.

Unfortunately, here in SoCal where drama reigns supreme, there are a few, and I mean very few scooterists who are very vocal, and they are not interested in the least in working together at being inclusive. For example, several members of one of these groups showed up at the Orange Crush rally a couple months back. Orange Crush has been inclusive for the past several years. This VO group (Vintage Only) showed up, and started telling people riding modern scooters that they couldn't ride, because they were on "plastic." Some of those members who were asked to leave are members here on MV. Of course they didn't leave, so the VO group chatted up several of the folks on vintage scoots, and left with about 25 vintage scooters to do their own ride, poaching people from Orange Crush.

Of course they'll protest their innocence, but if you read the pages of the Paisans website, it's only too obvious that a few of these people have one agenda, which is to "take back the scene." Translation: get rid of modern scooters from rallies. How ironic that they protest so loudly when someone doesn't want to include them

On the bright side, these types are few and they are vastly outnumbered by enthusiasts who are much more tolerant.

What I find the most difficult to believe is that these same guys go on the bbs or the Paisans websites and belittle MV and it's members, then they come here to advertise their vintage only rides or buy a banner. Do they really think people don't read their blather? Do they really think level headed people want to hang out with people who think the sun rises and sets on them because of the kind of scooter they ride? The hyprocisy of blasting MV and it's members and then wanting us to come to their VO rallies cracks me up. Why would I want to ride my Sprint with them when they make a habit of insulting me?

Obviously not all the members of these groups are narrow minded, in fact most of them are really knowledgeable. It's the vocal few that make them look really small.

I can very much appreciate Jess' position here.

Jimbo, while that was a nice speech, let's take a step back here for a second and remember this forum itself has some history of its own.

When this forum was started, it was started with the goal of being a technically minded forum for modern riders. Why? Because anyone riding a modern bike got a shit-ton of flack from people on the BBS. There has always been a mentality of second-class citizenry, which I can understand the genesis of and don't need a reiteration of the same grievances, but the fact remains: the alternative places to go for technical information were actually elitist, and there was no way to get any information if you actually wanted to work on and maintain your bike, much less tune it. You were basically told you were an idiot and to go home.

As a result, Modern Vespa was formed to give people a friendly, inclusive environment to discuss scooter related challenges. People of all technical proficiencies are invited to ask questions they might have related to their bikes.

of course, things change. The general tone is less about figuring out how to fix up your bike, and more about enjoying the community that formed around that, regardless of what you ride. People here ride new and old Vespas, Piaggios, Aprilias, Derbis, Peugeots, Fujis, Heinkels, Lambrettas, Italjets, Genuines, TGB/Pierspeed, Hondas, etc, and aside from the threads where people explicitly talk about why they like Vespas or why Vespas are so great, for the most part there is pretty much no pretension about what others ride. In riding my GT200, my V9A, my P125X, my Aprilia Atlantic 500, my Honda 599, my Honda Elite 250, or my MP3 500, I don't think I've ever really felt the kind of general derision here than at any other forum.

Perhaps the biggest thing that strikes me about Jess' post is that he talks about this forum being about inclusion, and not wanting to push things that bring exclusion, because that's why I'm here, and this place has helped me develop significantly both as a mechanic and a rider. I'm a decent wrench on my GT, and don't shy away from rebuilding any of my 2Ts.

And of course, Jimbo, you post a lot of things about crocs and scooter skirts, arguments we've all seen a billion times, that are ridiculous hyperbole that alienates people. For example, what if I were to say you wouldn't have any bikes at Classic (which I've attended the last 5 years), because none of your bikes would be running anyway? That your bike is just a prop for a drinking problem? That even living in the city you'll just truck your bike to the meet-up anyway?

Aren't those tired cliches as well? Aren't they bullshit? Yet at the same time, you're busting out the same sort of crap here. You may think I sound like a schmuck saying them, but that's basically the same sentiment of your post. And I don't believe what I say...

I mean really - this place is about inclusion. I think it's pretty safe to say that if you posted this on BBS' vintage only section you'd reach anyone you would have wanted to reach. So why come to an inclusive but modern oriented forum that contains people who you ridicule as being croc-wearing, scooter skirt owning, bad riders who will trade paint with you (if they had paint on their plastic), to promote a ride, then send a butt-hurt PM about how lame it is that you're not getting promotion on it that basically says you're trying to make sure none of the MV'ers come out (and post that same PM later)?

I am personally not against vintage only rallies, or modern only rallies. I'd personally rather go to an inclusive rally, but I've no issues with either. The one thing I don't like is when people assume I'm one thing or another simply because of the bike I choose to show up with on that day. I was actually mentioning to Jess a few days ago that I could appreciate the idea of Classic's return to form as a vintage-type rally, because first off it was for a damned long time when the Rally Kings ran it, and second off, no one ever presented it as "we don't want those damned modern riders around", just that people wanted to celebrate vintage bikes. The intent was about showcasing bikes, not riders.

Your post above does the exact opposite though. So who knows, maybe you speak for others in the club. Maybe you don't. But posts like yours make me not want to go to Classic.

For the record, 60% of my club has vintage bikes, one of them only has vintage (but also has a motorcycle) and another having only recently gotten a modern Vespa. Jess is in that same club. No one ever thinks any less of anyone regardless of what we ride. No one's the "black sheep" (if you pardon the expression). We led the San Juan Bautista ride at Amerivespa and had a shit ton of fun, and there was every type of bike imaginable (including a Thruxton and some... weird... MP5... thing), and I am thankful to have gotten to lead a very successful ride (with Pistol Pete taking pics from the back of my MP3) that had such an inclusive audience.

Also, I've been nearly murdered at rallies by just as many people riding Vino's or Tanks as I have people on vintage bikes. Everything from watching Jordan careen into a fuckin' fence to Bill Shamrock stalling 2-up while going up Lombard causing a chain reaction of Supers and Ps sucking it and spinning into everyone else. Then there's the skinny kids on the Primas who don't realize that just because your rear brake is the only one that will actually stop you, doesn't mean you need to lock it going down hill right in front of cable car tracks that their front tires track quite well into, fishtailing them into others just enough to nearly take out 5 other riders. I've also seen an LX bounce off a Burgman.

And yet, I enjoyed myself. I enjoyed the people I hung out with, who owned everything under the sun.

I don't expect every rally to be for everyone. I also think that if its not for an audience, don't post it to that audience. Especially when you've got an attitude about it.

To Summarize,
Vintage only rallies because classic bikes are cool: nothing wrong with it, no harm no foul. In fact, if you want to be super gracious, invite all bikes and say that only vintage bikes can be in the show or on the ride.
Vintage only rallies because you think modern bike riders are choads: don't post them here, we don't want that shit. This community isn't about belittling other people based on what they ride, or excluding people because of what they ride - there are other places to do that, and do it there.
Modern only rallies: sure, why not, but I've never really seen anyone care that much
Inclusive rallies: kick ass, love it. Love that I have a wide range of friends from a wide range of lifestyles and persuasions

Meanwhile I'm going to go out in a few to a ride to Daly City on my P125X, to check out some 50cc Yamahas and Hondas, with absolutely no irony in my soul what so ever.

Unfortunately, here in SoCal where drama reigns supreme, there are a few, and I mean very few scooterists who are very vocal, and they are not interested in the least in working together at being inclusive.

Hey now, Len... I don't think your round up of SoCal is accurate. I think that in SD we have the MOST inclusive scooter scene of all. The Pharaohs, Secret Society, Bastards and anyone one on two wheels are easily, effortlessly riding together. Come down to San Diego and ride with us... it's a different world, trust me.

Agreed, Ive ridden in SF & SD and it only appears to be Fucking LA/OC with all this BS. Tiresome it is.

PS Len, they do some nice rides down south and no drama.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Gitta I wont be able to make for your guys ride(2nd Sunday), pissed because I wanted to ride across that bridge. Tell the SD crew "Hey".

Ride Safe

Manny


Also Props to Secret Society SF for a drama less Scooter Rage 23.

am i blind or is it because i did'nt make it to orange crush.

here in la we have a monthy group ride that is for everyone

we also have a lambretta only ride

we also have a vintage only ride

i am starting a ride that will be for et3's and old bald guys ONLY

manny,your half way there

Sure glad that stuff hasn't spread to here. 21 of us just had a grand time without any concern for make, year or model. Expect the same in 2010

It really isn't worth the emotion.

Al

Anyone know where I can find a PK Automatica in the US?

jess,i'm just glad you guys let me hang out here

nobody else lets me hang out with em

They should just make it Shiftys & Autos, that would clear up the muddy vintage/classic crap.

ScooterRaton,

You guys found something that works because you have people who want to work together.

Unfortunately, here in SoCal where drama reigns supreme, there are a few, and I mean very few scooterists who are very vocal, and they are not interested in the least in working together at being inclusive. For example, several members of one of these groups showed up at the Orange Crush rally a couple months back. Orange Crush has been inclusive for the past several years. This VO group (Vintage Only) showed up, and started telling people riding modern scooters that they couldn't ride, because they were on "plastic." Some of those members who were asked to leave are members here on MV. Of course they didn't leave, so the VO group chatted up several of the folks on vintage scoots, and left with about 25 vintage scooters to do their own ride, poaching people from Orange Crush.

Of course they'll protest their innocence, but if you read the pages of the Paisans website, it's only too obvious that a few of these people have one agenda, which is to "take back the scene." Translation: get rid of modern scooters from rallies. How ironic that they protest so loudly when someone doesn't want to include them

On the bright side, these types are few and they are vastly outnumbered by enthusiasts who are much more tolerant.

What I find the most difficult to believe is that these same guys go on the bbs or the Paisans websites and belittle MV and it's members, then they come here to advertise their vintage only rides or buy a banner. Do they really think people don't read their blather? Do they really think level headed people want to hang out with people who think the sun rises and sets on them because of the kind of scooter they ride? The hyprocisy of blasting MV and it's members and then wanting us to come to their VO rallies cracks me up. Why would I want to ride my Sprint with them when they make a habit of insulting me?

Obviously not all the members of these groups are narrow minded, in fact most of them are really knowledgeable. It's the vocal few that make them look really small.

hi everybody

is everybody ok

one thing is true

whatever you ride,when it breaks down you push

and thats a fact jack

There's a guy i call about once a year who i know has a PK125 automatica...just sitting in his garage....and i call to see if he's changed his mind about selling it to me. He's the same guy i bought my ss180 off of ( cheaply ) and a $450 50 special. I'm hoping one day he opts to sell me the PK125 automatica, though i don't know why i want it so bad. I guess just to rescue it out of that dude's garage mostly.

except that my 2005 px shifts LOL

Super nice lambretta jimmy!