Modern Vespa

So I'm flying to Blockbuster tonight to return a DVD and when I go to start my bike when leaving Blockbuster, the bike won't start. No sound of even remotely turning over. So, I called Vespa roadside assistance. Could the battery be dead in less than 2 years? Just had my 4,000 mile service...should that have been checked? How much for a new battery for GTS?

When you turn the key, are there any lights at all? Is the headlight on, dash lights? It could also be a fuse. The battery could last quite some time, mine is still good after three years.

Headlight is on but dim... Dash lights on too... Front running light is dim....I have a battery charger from Vespa dealer at home.....not sure if I would feel comfortable riding after charging it or maybe I'll just get a new battery.....any thoughts on cost? Also, easy to do? Just swap out old for new or do the batteries ship dry and I need to have the dealer install it?

If it needs a new battery go for the gel type well worth th extra £/$ I took the little plastic battery out of my et4 and was able to fit bigger battery

It's the wrong time of year for regularly used batteries to die. I bet you have a charging problem of some sort - which could just be lots of short journeys.

I would charge it overnight and see how it goes from there. A new sealed battery is easy to install and not that expensive, nothing like a new pipe or seat.

Or it could be as simple as corroded terminals interfering with charging. Give them a good cleaning , then reassemble making sure all your connections are tight.

cheers

Do you disconnect terminals from bike to battery when charging or just charge battery with everything connected? Driver is on his way out now... He will try to charge it here a little for me so I can ride it home...I'm only 3 miles from home,

Charge it with everything still connected. With the key turned off, the electricals draw very little current.
I use a tender that way with good results.

+1

The battery is a very large capacitor.

Jimc---is there a way to trouble shoot whether you have a bad "alternator"?---assuming scoots even have one.

Curious what the mechanism is in a scoot that charges the battery and how to determine if that's gone bad.

I'm having similar issues...

cheers.

I've got a brand new battery (this spring) in my LX 150 but because I only ride 5 blocks back and forth to work 6 times a day I have to put it on the battery tender once a week.

If I do a big ride on the weekend I don't worry so much but usually by the end of the week it's on the tender overnight.

battery life span seems to vary the one I have in the LT is the original from 2003, it dosent hold a charge as good as it used to but still works fine especially if the scoot is ridden regularily. A friend of mine is having problems with hers thats only a year old.

All in the manuals.

Basically there is a three-phase alternator that feeds a voltage regulator. Either can go faulty. Lack of charge is rarely the regulator, they usually fail by going short and feeding too much into the battery. The alternator is a static set of coils (stator) that are energising by spinning magnets. Easiest check on the stator is to ensure the resistance between any two of the three output wires is less than 1 ohm but more than 0.7 ohm, and that none are short to frame. If despite that the stator doesn't deliver enough current the magnetic bell must be re-magnetised or replaced.

I have a gadget that plugs into an accessory power outlet. It tells me the state of charge of the battery and how well the alternator is charging the battery (when the engine is running). I bought it years ago at an auto parts store. If you have installed an accessory power outlet on your scooter, this is a useful little gadget. I've used it to check my motorcycles, cars and scooters and it works well.

You can do a quick check on the charging system by simply putting a voltmeter across the battery terminals. With the engine off, a fully charged battery will read a bit over 12V with no load. Making sure the scoot is on the center stand and on a stable surface, start the engine and rev the engine up to a few thousand rpms. The voltage across the battery terminals should rise into the vicinity of 14v.

This simple test won't tell you whether the stator is putting out all the charging current it should, but it will at least tell you whether it is charging or not.

I've used a battery tender for years with excellent results. I plug it in after the scoot cools down and leave it that way until the next ride.

So...anyway...Vespa Roadside Assistance calls me back at 8:15 last night...tells me within 1 hour, tow truck will be there to pick up my bike and take it to my house...I'm waiting...9:20 I get an automatic callback from Piaggio saying push 1 if Vespa picked up yet or 2 if not...they offer to call tow truck company for me but the driver calls while I'm on with them...he tells me he'll be there soon...he got delayed...I'm waiting....call him back 1/2 hour later....he's helping some older people...tells me how nice they are and he'll be with me soon...call him at 10:30...says he's on his way...tells me about some old people he's helping again...I tell him at this point that I really don't mean to sound inconsiderate but I really don't give a shit about the old people, Don't give a shit about what they needed.....just give a shit that I have been waiting for you for two hours now...(I really said it to him). He shows up with a flatbed and a truck on the flatbed and another car in tow behind the truck on a hook (so where is he going to put my Vespa?) He tried a portable battery pack on my Vespa...it started right up which would have bee fine if it held the charge...it died a moment or two later...is this a dead battery if it does that...tried again..started and then died about thiry seconds later. He tells me that he'll have to drop off the cars and come back for me (IDIOT...how did you plan on taking my bike???). Should I be mad...damn right I am fuming. Still, stuck in front of a Blockbuster so they are open til' 12 midnight. Call Road America who dispatches the trucks for Piaggio...they tell me they are working on it. I even think to use my AAA card...they won't tow my scooter because I don't have PlusRV service...I have AAA Plus..just not RV...I call another towing company who wants to put a blanket down on flatbed and set the bike on it's side and strap it down...I politely say NO...another one in Miami...kind of far away wants to charge me about $175...my house is only 4 miles approximately from whee I am...so, now it's about 11:30...finally, after getting discouraged, I take the bike and walk it home the 4 mile trek...what a trek that was...mosquito bites along the way...dripping sweat...not pleasant evening...got home around 1 o'clock...pissed off at Piaggio for sending such an imcompetent person out to me....and, when I was on the phone with Road America after the whole thing before I walked the bike home, the guy said the tow truck driver wanted to get paid by them for starting my bike...he said he jump started it but I didn't want to ride it home...not really the way it went...it died on me as I have written here!

Your battery is DEAD! Now, that doesn't mean that this is your only problem. It probably is just the dead battery but if the alternator is not charging the battery, you'll be right back where you were last night. If you have a multimeter, you can install the new battery.....................start the engine and then put the multimeter on the positive and negative terminals to see if it's getting a charge. If it is, you're good to go. If not, take it to the shop immediately.

Thank you for politely reminding me why I have AAA Plus RV & Motorcycle service.

I am not having it towed to Vespa dealer...going to pick up a new battery there next week and install it myself...then, he wants me to bring it in to get checked out to make sure everything is working properly....any of that other stuff that can be wrong under my extended warranty or are they going to soak me for more money other than a battery????

If it's not charging, it could just be the 30A fuse (unlikely but they do die) or a duff regulator (probable) or stator (possible).

It's most likely, JUST a bad battery. If it's anything else, it's a voltage regulator or alternator.................but I'm betting on the battery. More often than not, a properly maintained, sealed battery is going to last for three or four years...............but batteries are strange and wonderful things and they CAN but usually don't fail within two years............but, they can. If you're using the scooter a lot and the charging system is working properly, you shouldn't need to keep it on a trickle charger. But........if you're not riding it regularly, you should keep it on a trickle charger to beat the odds that this won't happen again.

If you dont ride in the winter and dont trickle charge your battery I have had batteries die after one season. Harbor Freight has a trickle charger with float for $6.00 when they go on sale.

This is an easy check to accomplish on the GTS. Under the seat, at the top-front of the engine compartment, there is a large brown three-pin connector. This is the connection between the alternator stator and the regulator. Undo the connector and meter the connector-half that terminates the harness coming around from the left side of the engine compartment - that's the side coming up from the alternator.

I have a Yuasa Smart Shot 900 battery charger/maintainer that I got from the guy I bought my LX150 from a couple of years ago. I tried hooking it up to the battery on the GTS and the red power indicator light is on but not either of the other lights even light up....one is charging the other is stable/maintaining.....I'm getting no power at all when it's hooked up to the bike...last night, when the guy from the towing company hooked up a portable battery supply, the bike had enough then to turn over and start up...I'm thinking this battery is REALLY dead or something else...When walking home last night, I did leave the key turned toward the start position so that most of the way home, at least the tail light lit up so drivers would see me on the side of the road walking...I think the light was so weak it went out before I was even halfway home....the battery says YTX 14 on it...not sure if there are different size batteries for the GTS...my dealer said this is the biggest one you can put in a GTS...is this Smart Shot a good thing to leave hooked up to the bike on some sort of regular basis? Also, if I replace the alligator clamps with something else, I could probably wire the Pos and Neg terminal up and leave the little plug hanging out somewhere from the battery compartment so I can just plug the bike in once a week or something like that.....anyone else using this charger/maintainer and have luck with it?

Sounds like your battery is completely flat, too flat even for the charger to realize it's connected. I believe the YTX14 is a 14 Ahr battery - that's the biggest that's "supposed" to go into a GTS. A pigtail or power connector can be permanently installed as a quick easy way to connect a battery tender - I did it here, but a search will turn up all kinds of ways to do it. But your battery may be too far gone to bring back to life.

And your charging issue is still an issue. Best first step is to check the 30 amp main fuse, and meter out the alternator windings, as JimC described earlier.

I'm not familiar with the Smart Shot, but Yuasa is a good name, and my guess is it's a good unit.

I've got tender pigtails on both my scooters so it's a snap to hook up the battery tender.

Like I said before I have to hook up the Vespa about once a week.

A healthy, fully charged battery should read ~12.8-13.3 volts DC with no load, no charge on it.

For 11.8 VDC, the device is ~50% depleted

For 10.8 VDC, the device is ~70% depleted.

If you accidentally leave electrics on & deplete a lead acid battery down to 10 VDC it is dead & gone and cannot be brought back to life. It is sad, stuff happens. Move on.

\\osc

Occam's razor - let's go with the simplest workable hypothesis. Your old battery went bad after almost 2 years and your new battery is bad right out of the box. It's happened to lots of folks before including me. Get a new battery and life should be good.

If not, ping us back.

[EDIT] Woops! It was really late and I accidentally posted this in the original thread about the battery problem. Nothing to see here. Move along. For those of you following at home, here is the latest thread about this problem.

Sorry to hear about your battery. If it makes you feel better, I had to replace mine 9 MONTHS after buying my Vespa and the dealer would not replace it under warranty. I own a trickle charger now, but mainly I try to drive it every 3 days or so and I drive at least 20 minutes at a time once a week above 40 mph to keep things charged. Haven't had any issues since, but I know how frustrating it is. I was stuck at work at midnight and everything turned on, but there was not enough juice to turn the engine over. Totally sucks!

I found this technology of testing batteries in the marine and aircraft industry years ago.
The conductance testing has never missed for me.
Midtronics has a unit designed for the motorcycle/scooter/ATV.
I can check my scooter's batteries often and know the condition of the battery.
Allows changing out batteries before you are stranded on the road.
Also checks the charging circuits as well.
I bought the model PBT50 a few years back and I am very happy and amazed how well it works.
No scooter shop should be without one.

Midtronics PBT50 Battery Conductance Tester for Motorcycle and Power Sports Batteries
http://www.midtronics.com/media/documents/Literature/MK070052%20PBT-50%20Sell%20Sheet%20r2%20web.pdf

You can buy on line at about $115 to $145.
Here is one example at Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Midtronics-Battery-Conductance-Motorcycle-Batteries/dp/B000UZSU9I

CONDUCTANCE TESTING QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
http://www.skylark.co.uk/CONDUCTANCEQ-A.htm

More detailed discussion
http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal2003/StukenbergPaperFINAL2003.pdf

ccc

Nice one snakebike.

Anywhere in particular/brand you suggest?
Looks like a good mod worth doing...

thanks

In South Florida heat if I get 3 years out of a battery I'm happy!

[...

Although a voltmeter is helpful, you may want to consider the amp meter as well.
The amp meter is a great instrument that indicates the condition of a scooter's electrical system.
An Amp Meter will fully indicating charging and discharging currents.
Actually, both a volt and amp meter would be the best of both worlds.



Amp meters were once on cars, trucks, farm tractors and most every engine with a charging system.
But, I never saw them on any scooter.
Meters were replaced with idiot lights since some people didn't understand what they were
indicating and paid little to no attention to them anyway.
Now we don't even have idiot lights.
Now it's the "check engine" light/alarm.
I once had a car that had both idiot lights and meters for oil pressure, charging current,
and coolant temperature.
I guess it worked for idiots and informed folks alike.
I have an Amp meter ready to install on my ET4 but haven't made or purchased a current shunt yet.
I will post as soon as I have it completed.
But I would really like both volt & amp meters onboard.
Since battery life seems to be a real issue with scooters, meters could be used as an early
warning of impeding battery death and charging circuit failure.

Exonic, good posts about the conductance meter and also suggestions about the voltmeter and ammeter. Thanks! Considering that the battery is the Achilles Heel of scooters, I'm always surprised that more folks don't just change their batteries every year. I guess part of the answer is that a large percentage of scooterists live in FL and Southern CA where they don't have seasonal issues with batteries. For the rest of us, it seems like the yearly battery change would be fairly cheap insurance against the miseries of battery failure... My $0.02. IMHO. YMMV. ATTATT.

On my X9 because that thing needed so much juice I had a set of jumper leads hard wired in, which reminds me I should make some up for the GT.