Modern Vespa

I am asking authorized Vespa and Piaggio dealers on the board, to help clarify this perplexing information directly from the Piaggio website regarding maintenance items, especially the drive belt replacement.

Calling on SDG in particular due to his regular valuable contributions to this forum, the scooter community, and the fact that I know and trust him and his shops' technical expertise on these bikes. Other dealers feel free to help unconfuse me regarding this as they see fit...

Piaggio's US website now lists "Maintenance" for each of it's scooters, and therein lies my question.

I have an Mp3 400. The Piaggio website lists 9,000 miles as the first interval to inspect my "transmission belt". Coincidentally the BV 500 interval is also listed on the website at 9,000 miles for this. The BV 500 Tourer powerplant is less similar to that of my Mp3 400, if I'm not mistaken, and more similar if not identical to that of the Mp3 500's.

http://www.piaggiousa.com/scooters.php#/maintenance/Piaggio%20MP3%20400

http://www.piaggiousa.com/scooters.php#/maintenance/Piaggio%20BV%20TOURER%20500

The website lists the Mp3 500 as requiring a check of rollers and a REPLACEMENT of the transmission belt at just 6,000 miles.

http://www.piaggiousa.com/scooters.php#/maintenance/Piaggio%20MP3%20500

I've got to think that the information on the website is simply inaccurate, but for which scooter? The Mp3 400? 500? The BV? Who knows?

The owner's manual for my 400 only adds to my confusion.

Dealers, can you enlighten the Mp3 community on this? (6,000 miles seems an awful short interval for a tranny belt, for a scooter of the ilk of either of the Master-engined Mp3's) What do the talking heads at Piaggio's Tech Dept. have to say...the official word once and for all.

Inquiring minds....

Thanks in advance.

I'd like clarification on this too. 6,000 miles seems awfully soon to replace the belt on the MP3, when the BV 500 can go 9,000.

I changed my belt on my 400 at 7800 miles and it still looked good. The book says every 6000 miles. Did they change it to 9000 miles now?? It would be good to know if they changed it.

R.B.

Belts tend to 'look good' until very shortly before they fail. All you can say on inspection is that it 'looks good'. The first sign of aging will be tiny cracks between the inner 'teeth'. Next, those inner teeth will appear to grow holes through them. Finally the circumferential kevlar weave will shed a thread or two - and now you only have a few hundred miles left.

The X9 500 (comparable to the BV 500) had a belt service interval of 8,000 miles. However a significant number failed just before that, so when they brought out the lastest version of the Master engine they reduced the change interval to 6000 miles to be on the safe side. In the UK at least they also reduced the price of the belt and made the standard service interval 6000 miles - so overall the cost of servicing was roughly the same, if not lower depending on labour costs.

The belt change interval will change from model to model, depending on the engine power, the weight of the bike and the belt dimensions. Some judgement has to be used, as those who do long distances at conservative speeds with few stops and starts will find their belts last for ages, whereas those who commute with loads of stops and always do WOT take-offs can have early failures. Riding WOT long distance can also fatigue the belt due to prolonged heating. As variators wear, this can have a big effect as well.

FWIW the belt change interval for the GP800 is 12,000 miles, and when I had one changed at that mileage it looked as good as new.

I would be very careful of using data from Piaggio public websites. The belt change for the MP3 400, MP3 500 and BV500 is still 6,000 miles (10000km), not 9000 miles (15000km).

SDG, cheekythomas or any other dealer can confirm.

JimC, your last statement about being wary is exactly the point. If they're publishing something on the website for the public, shouldn't it be correct? It would be nice to get an official clarification from Piaggio, wouldn't it?

Hey there...

I agree with JimC on his findings and cannot really add much. We have clients that change their belts every 4K miles without fail. I think 6K for freeway riders is the absolute end of it as what lurks around the corner is a real PITA. It's different strokes for different folks, some want it done more often than not and others want to live a little on the edge and brag about it later.

For me 6K is all of it, then a new one is in order.

I will have Piaggio tech look into the clarification issue's for sure.

Best,
SDG

David,

I get what you are saying, but when a person is deciding on a purchase, often you look into maintenance costs as a part of the equation. If they're advertising 9,000 miles on the website, and the belt really needs replacing at 6,000, that makes a difference.

For example, it means in the first 6,000 miles you'll be doing three oil changes, use two rear tires and two front tires, and one belt, totaling about $1,200 in maintenance costs. It adds up, so it would be helpful if Piaggio clarified what their recommended service really is. If you read the links Matt posted above, it doesn't really seem to be consistent.

Love the MP3, but the maintenance costs get up there, compared to other vehicles. To be fully honest, I'm taking a hard look at the maintenance costs of my own MP3 500, because if you also experience an out of warranty 'steering notch' problem, I could easily be looking at $2k per year for maintenance, and at that cost I'll probably keep my GT and my Sprint for scooting fun, and start looking at trading in my MP3 on a motorcycle for touring.

I think I'm just thinking it over because of a few recent experiences, which to be sure are NOT scientific. A friend's MP3 500 recently started sucking oil like water, losing a quart in under a week, with no visible leaking, then his instruments starting wigging out, and his gas mileage went down to around 25 mpg. It's in the shop and they're diagnosing it, but when they first hooked up the diagnostic tool, there were no error codes. Then mine started making a "ticking" noise while riding this week. I haven't had time to diagnose it yet except to make sure it was filled to the correct level with oil. I guess it may have been a bad time for me to start reading the steering notch thread, huh?

Three oil changes? How do you make that out? THERE IS NO OIL CHANGE MANDATED AT 3000 MILES FOR ANY CURRENT MODEL! Shout intentional!

12" rear-wheeled 250 may use two tyres, but a 400 or 500 won't have used one. 8000 miles easy for those.

If it's the 250 you're talking about, the belt is due at 12,000 miles, not 6,000. I had an X9 250 belt done at 15,000 miles because I was going on a 2,000mile trip. It merely had a few tiny cracks between the inner teeth. It'd have done another 1000 with no problem, and probably another 1500 miles after that. I wasn't riding it gently, either!

Well, what constitutes a "full service"? At 625, 3000, etc.? Every full service I've had INCLUDES an oil change.

Point being, there is SO much confusion regarding the service INCLUDING oil changes, rollers, belts, etc., it becomes essentially tribal knowledge very quickly.Lore, handed down generation by genration.

So...based on the Piaggio website links I've provided....when ARE the oil changes prescribed? What's a "full service" as defined by the manufacturer? What about the belts?

Back to square one....

All due respect, there are numerous experienced and respected long-time scooterists on this board (yourself included of course!) with their own experience-based opinions of what is prescribed, but I was hoping for the official Piaggio recommendation, on the drive belts.

I think we all agree replacing oil, drive belts, tires, any consumable in advance of it's engineered-in lifespan couldn't hurt (personal choice and financial situation to dictate) but that's not reality, and is wasteful.

But at the end of the day I haven't seen anything definitive from the manufacturer on what the lifespan of the belts really is expected to be, there has to be a baseline life expectation known by the people that design and manufacture these parts and their lifecycles. And in this instance, there is contradictory information supplied by the manufacturer's own website, and then challenged by members of the community who have differing opinions which may or may not be correct. Read your owner's manual and the contradictions compound.

This is what I'm trying to determine...

(BTW, I just replaced my OEM rear 14" tire at 4745 miles, about 500 miles later than I normally would have liked to go on it. It was toast. Now at 5100 and some change, am I ready to start saving for a belt service in just 900 short miles?)

I'm about to go to bed, up in five hours, and not back for four days, but THERE IS NO 3000 MILE SERVICE! Whoever gave you that idea needs taking to court for fraudulent extortion.

https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic42050?highlight=service+3000

Thank you for reinforcing the point of my original post at the top of this thread....Confusion abounds.

IF you follow the supplied links, the BV and MP3 400 both call the 3,000 mile a "check" (whatever THAT is) leaving the door open in their description for an oil change as needed.

The Mp3 500 still calls for a 3,000 mile " Full Service". "Third Full Service" to quote the website, in fact. Same term used on the BV 500, AND the Mp3 400...someone thinks there's a 3,000 service.

Follow the links above.

Hoping for some Piaggio-direct clarification.

In my experience with servicing both the BV500/X9 with the 460cc bore and the BV500/MP3 with the 492cc bore, I have found the following

Aggressive Rider = 6000km replace rollers and clean transmission (repack driven bearing) at 12000km = replace rollers/guides and belt as well as a thorough cleaning.

Easy Rider = 6000km Clean transmission (rollers usually ok = no flat spots
at 12000km = replace rollers/guides and belt as well as a thorough cleaning.

I have yet to see a belt that looks like shredded wheat.

Lastly for some shops and Most DIY'ers....USE A TORQUE WRENCH and torque to book specs...there is a reason for 160-175 Nm


Also...If you have a J.Costa then make sure you have the stainless bell and it is not stress cracked.

Can I throw my £0.02 in at this point and ask if there is a time interval for services or is it just mileage/kilometrage? My 400 user manual doesn't say anything about an "annual" service, but talking to a dealer has confused me a bit.

[quote=" Clean transmission

How do you "Clean" the transmission?

You get rid of all debris and clutch dust, maybe de-glaze the clutch shoes and bell.

I think you got the miles and km mixed up its 6000 miles or 10.000km for the belt and oil change 12.000 or 20.000km also engine valve clearance cheicking

there was a letter to european dealerships saying change the belt with 15.000km but some did break before the 15.000km and now its back to 10.000km