Modern Vespa

Hello all, newbie here, my 78 p200 needs some work. I need to replace pickup coil and am wondering if i can get the flywheel off with gear puller or do i bite the bullet and get the $15 tool.
Thinking about rings at 6700 mi. and do i get the standard or first over ring set and can it be honed or should it be machined for this job? Any other jobs i should be thinking about at this point? Original owner and haven't ever laid a wrench on it.
I was placing order for carb kit and i have two paper and one hard phenolic type spacer under the air box and the scooterworks.com guy had never heard of two paper gaskets under air box. Air box, paper, spacer, paper, engine block is the way it lays.
What will i get with a 24/24 carb vs. my 20/20 carb. I try not to drive in a wreckless manner but power for hills would be nice. Maybe new rings would restore some of my power but was going to see how it ran with new gaskets, etc in carb. It is leaking gas down in to flywheel and won't go much over 45-50 mph.
I'm in nw Iowa and wondering if anybody knows of vespa mechanics in my area. Like Sioux Falls, SD, Mankato, Mn., Des Moines , IA. Mpls, MN.
Thanks for all replies.

Where in Iowa are you? I borrowed a fly wheel puller from Green Tree Scooters but I'm local and gave them beer.

You should get a 24/24. What leads you to believe you need a new stator?

Vesp Maintenance and Scooter Help can help you a lot to start off.

Jeremy

A 78 P200should have a 24/24 carb and no plastic spacer - they were'nt put on until 80 I think.


EDIT to say that the 78/79 stators were wired differently to the later ones, so if you're doing work on the stator, make sure you are 100% on the model year

I'm located about 1.5 hrs west of Mason City around West Bend, Emmetsburg. According to my "Scooterworks" catalogue I have a "78", ser # 56341, VSX1T, P200E. It's original and it does indeed have 2 paper gaskets and a phenolic spacer. I bought it in 1980 at a Harley dealer closeout. From what I have heard I'm due for rings and a piston but haven't talked to any techy. As I recall I did my older 180 Super rings and maybe piston at about
7000 miles. I did find the scooter help and maintenace sites but didn't help all that much and i did a search on couple other sites.
My inspection plug seems to have come in contact with the pickup coil on the stator and wore the plastic cover down and has exposed the coil and i think it has actually broke a wire on the coil wrap and that can't be good. Don't have a clue as to how that happened unless the gas melted the plastic on the pickup coil misforming it to the point were the inspection plug could hit it. I think I can replace that Pickup Coil and not the whole stator. But i have to get the flywheel off.
Thanks for the green tree post. Maybe they can help.
Thanx guys!!!!!!!

Use this http://www.scooterhelp.com/serial/ves.frame.serial.numbers.html instead of the scooterworks catalog. You have a 1980 P200E. Not a 78.

That explains the 20/20 carb and plastic spacer.

Here is the wiring diag you should use http://scooterhelp.com/electrics/wiring/VSX1T.USA.after.pdf

Get the flywheel puller. It works like a charm and you may need to remove the wheel many times. $15 is cheap.

Don't even try to work on the stator plate your self. I did the diagnostic with the VOM and determined that I needed a new LT coil. When I got mine off I could see that it needed something I didn't have, skills, etc. So I called Motorsport and they talked me in to sending it to them. It turned out I didn't need any of the expensive bits. Their guru just replaced the toasted wires and the coils were fine. Send yours to Motorsport (http://www.scooterwest.com/home/) and let their guru fix it properly. Talk to Steve or Max.

I thought i saw a broken wire on the pickup coil but on closer inspection i think it was just a sliver of plastic reflecting on the light. I guess i can test that by seeing if it still sparks the plug unless the pickup coil has nothing to do with spark in which case i don't know what it does. I need to get the flywheel off to test it with vom. One tech i talked to said i might get it off with a gear puller if i was careful and tapped the center post as i turn the puller . The tool is cheap, its' the wait that sucks.It was running before i dismantled the carb. but poorly, and i was hoping to get a carb kit and air box gaskets and see if that helped performance. Would liquid plastic used to cover bare electrical wire be ok to cover/seal the exposed bare coil? Would it stand up to temperatures in there?
Thanks, Steelcap, I do believe this is indeed a 1980.
I guess i will pull the head and do the dekoke routine and see how things look in there next to see if i need a piston along with the rings.
Thanks for the help guys.

While it may be possible to get the flywheel off with a gear puller, I've seen a handful of flywheels that are bent up because someone thought it would be a good idea to use a gear puller.

Also, I'd think about checking compression and ring end gap before just deciding your bike needs new rings. 6700 doesn't necessarily sound like a lotta miles to me.

I'd like to hear more detail on this "leaking gas down into flywheel".

Has your bike been sitting for awhile? It sounds like you might need a few regular maintenance type things addressed, so I recommend taking it slow and doing it right so you can get back to optimum performance and know where you stand.

Do feel free to lose the plastic spacer under the airbox.

This bike has set for the last 20 years mostly. I get it out every summer and get it running and put maybe 50-100 mi. on it. I put a carb kit and fuel shutoff gasket in it two years ago when i noticed leaks in the carb. It still leaked and evidently i screwed the pooch on the tank shutoff gasket. I wasn't aware of the gaskets under the airbox and finally a techy told me about those as the gas was flowing out the back from under the air box and down the engine or into the flywheel area if the piston was in the right place(I think,not sure). So I guess the needle valve wasn't working either. No gas in the tranny oil. What would acceptable compression be ?

I agree about sending your stater to scoots west. They have a great rebuild rep.
I swapped out my 20/20 to a 24/24, It also had that spacer I replaced it with just a paper. Some here say they had to dremel the air box to get the port to match.

I also am looking at a ring job. But in my case it's a total 9000mi. Overhaul.
If Im opening up the case on my Rally, Im going all the way..

Well, I have a seal out behind the stator, which is why the gas is running into the stator/flywheel area. My Pickup Coil is ok. My compression is running about 130-140 which probably isn't too bad. Looks like a case split to fix this. Maybe i'll upgrade to the 24/24 carb as well.
Thanks for the input from all of you.

The flywheel seal can be replaced without splitting cases or dropping the engine. When it leaks it lets more air into the mixture.

Dig it out with a small screw driver or similar. Push in new seal job done.

Indeed, the flywheel seal can be replaced easily as long as you have the flywheel and stator off. BEFORE you remove the stator, make sure to mark its position (a felt tip marker is fine to do this) as it very much affects timing. If you put it in the wrong spot it can advance or retard timing with large performance effects and worse if it's too advanced, even burning a hole in the piston.

130-140psi is great. Anything over 120 is good news. This would suggest you don't need to do anything about rings.

If you go to a larger carb you'll have to upjet, of course, with is a bit of a dark science. Ask around for what numbers have worked for other people, and then be prepared to do your own tests and plug chops.

Phaetn wrote:
If you go to a larger carb you'll have to upjet, of course, with is a bit of a dark science. Ask around for what numbers have worked for other people, and then be prepared to do your own tests and plug chops. [/quote]

Phaetn, Could you elaborate on what "upjet" is and what do you mean by
"plug chops"? Thanks!

upjet=larger jet
plug chops=change/check plugs/plug colours

http://incriminators.com/plugchop.html

Phaetn, Could you elaborate on what "upjet" is and what do you mean by
"plug chops"? Thanks![/quote]

Upjet means putting a bigger main jet; they come in different sizes, and its what controls the ratio of your air to fuel mixture at anything over about 1/2 throttle (there are actually three components that are involved in this, the air corrector, mixer tube, and main jet, but the last one is mainly what controls fuel delivery). In a nutshell, too big a jet and you'll have too much fuel and run rich, having a boggy, somewhat unresponsive engine and possibly fouling plugs (meaning you lose ignition); too small a jet and you'll have too little fuel, and hence too much air in the mixture which may make it quite response and perky, but with a serious danger of overheating (and hence seizing the engine) as a two-stroke lubricates with the fuel-oil.

As you get a bigger carb, you'll need to make sure there's an appropriately sized main jet and perhaps idle jet, too, as the bigger carb will be able to gulp in more air and you don't want to restrict the fuel-oil at your previous, smaller carb, level.

Do some searches here on MV and you'll find lots of details.

A plug chop is when you test the colour of your spark plug when under load. When the engine is warmed up, you do a run at full throttle and in third or fourth gear, then simultaneously pull in the clutch and hit the kill switch. By examining the colour of the plug, it gives you a snapshot of what engine temp and combustion is like in the engine under load (which is very different than at idle or mid-throttle). You're aiming for a chocolate brown colour. White or grey and very dry suggests much too hot (not enough fuel-oil mixing with the air), with a very real possibility of seizing the engine when at full throttle; oily and black suggests overly rich (too much fuel-oil), leading to an unresponsive throttle that seems to lag or bog a bit, and might lead to fouling plugs.

Again, a quick seach on MV should lead to lots of interesting reading.

Basically, as you go to a bigger carb you have to make sure you have the right jetting to match, to optimize performance and prevent the possibility of overheating leading to a soft-seize (something to very much be avoided!).

I'll let others comment who are more experienced than I am, but that's the general gist of it.

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html