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Today the scoot switched off while I was riding for no reason whatsoever!

I fiddled with the kill-switch and could then restart...

Bah!
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Was it fully warmed up, I've had this happen to me b4 but 99% of the time when it wasn't fully warmed up.
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The kill switch isn't meant as a 'bike turn off button' much rather a 'stop the bike in case of emergency button'.

What's wrong with the keys? Razz emoticon
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steveo_II wrote:
The kill switch isn't meant as a 'bike turn off button' much rather a 'stop the bike in case of emergency button'.

What's wrong with the keys? Razz emoticon
I've had kill switches on MCs for over 20 years and have never used them to turn a motor off. I also have never had either(kill, ign.) fail me. I've always used the ignition switch to turn a motorized vehicle off. But at the same time I always forget to use the kill switch in an accident too.
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I didn't use mine but had the problem of cutting out randomly had kill switch change and no probs now, thats 4 switches changed so far and I have kept all the old ones, stripped them, cleaned them and greased them so they are ready as spare and better than new
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Only reason I started using it is because I've started parking daily in an underground park with a lift to get the scoot in. Have to stop and start the engine while the lift is in use.

Nothing wrong with the keys, but the kill switch is easier. I admit I have always thought it was for emergencies, but some folks here have been taught it's for turning off the engine in 'normal' situations.

There was a whole debate here a while back - I didn't really want to start that up again Just thought I'd provoke some feedback on the possible causes, even though I'm pretty sure it's a 'dodgey' kill switch
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This is very interesting food for thought... we just were "taught" on thursday night at our Basic Rider training to USE the kill switch, as part of the propper procedure for turning the bikes off durring class, will have to remember to "unlearn" that after class, since it's apparently a good way to wear the switch out and break the bike...
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willabbott wrote:
This is very interesting food for thought... we just were "taught" on thursday night at our Basic Rider training to USE the kill switch, as part of the propper procedure for turning the bikes off durring class, will have to remember to "unlearn" that after class, since it's apparently a good way to wear the switch out and break the bike...
while it is a lesson in the MSF course and you need to be familure with the location and operation, after the class just test yours once a month but don't use it on a daily basis.
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old as dirt wrote:
while it is a lesson in the MSF course and you need to be familure with the location and operation, after the class just test yours once a month but don't use it on a daily basis.
Yeah, I'll have to do that! Don't want to break my bike after all, won't be any fun trying to get it 30miles to the shop, without it running
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The ONLY problem I see with using the kill switch instead of the key is that you or someone else could inadvertantly disingage the tiltlock.
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I was taught the same thing in the rider course but thought it dumb. My car doesn't have one. I have used it twice on the MP3, in emergency, then couldn't figure out why the bike wouldn't start and that other red light was on.
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This was on earlier threads and I've asked friends who live in Europe - apparently here the MSF teaches always to use the kill switch (they did when I took it) but in Europe it is a red, emergency shutoff button. I personally never use mine, because I am BAD to forget the bloody keys in the ignition. If my smart-aleck husband asks me one more time if I am tired of my bike and trying to give it away . . .
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willabbott wrote:
This is very interesting food for thought... we just were "taught" on thursday night at our Basic Rider training to USE the kill switch, as part of the propper procedure for turning the bikes off durring class, will have to remember to "unlearn" that after class, since it's apparently a good way to wear the switch out and break the bike...
I use the kill switch every time I turn off the bike. Total of 4500 miles so far on two MP3s and no problems with the switch.

I was also taught to use it in the MSF class, the rationale being that by making it a regular part of the routine one is more likely to use it in an emergency situation when it really counts.
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mpfrank wrote:
willabbott wrote:
This is very interesting food for thought... we just were "taught" on thursday night at our Basic Rider training to USE the kill switch, as part of the propper procedure for turning the bikes off durring class, will have to remember to "unlearn" that after class, since it's apparently a good way to wear the switch out and break the bike...
I use the kill switch every time I turn off the bike. Total of 4500 miles so far on two MP3s and no problems with the switch.

I was also taught to use it in the MSF class, the rationale being that by making it a regular part of the routine one is more likely to use it in an emergency situation when it really counts.
Exactly what I was taught years ago and have always done. No problems with Loretta and have no reason to expect any with kill switch that I can see (other than what may have happened to those posting in this thread). But this is a curious line of discussion, speaking as much to philosophy of riding as to the mechanics of control...
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I never use the kill switch, because it's just another switch or doodad to burn up, go bad or just fail....I keep it simple and turn the ignition switch off....and yes I know, it too will fail one day...

cheers...jacq
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GeorgiaGirl wrote:
If my smart-aleck husband asks me one more time if I am tired of my bike and trying to give it away . . .
he just wants to ride it Razz emoticon
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If the kill switch is mechanically fragile, using it every time could wear it out a little sooner, theoretically. But if switches are failing because they admit water and the contacts corrode, then using the switch regularly might actually make it more dependable.
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Those who use the kill switch daily will find it will fail in non-kill mode.

Those who use it in an emergency will find it does the job.

Nuff said...
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jimc wrote:
Those who use the kill switch daily will find it will fail in non-kill mode.

Those who use it in an emergency will find it does the job.

Nuff said...
jimc, any more concrete facts to back up this assertion?

(fwiw i use the kill switch just about every time yet have had no problems with it. )
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Switches that are 'open to the heavens' will fail on their 'make' contacts. They won't fail on their 'break' contacts. So the kill-switch is good for emergency cut-off. It isn't good for daily switch-on - posts passim.

I suspect those who advocate it also do the 'average' miles in the trade price guides, and only ride in dry sunny weather.

So OK for Hardley Rideables in the drier US States, but not for daily Vespa commuters or high-mileage tourers in Europe at least.

It is described as an 'Emergency Cut-Off' switch. I will only ever use it as such.
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mpfrank wrote:
I use the kill switch every time I turn off the bike. Total of 4500 miles so far on two MP3s and no problems with the switch.

I was also taught to use it in the MSF class, the rationale being that by making it a regular part of the routine one is more likely to use it in an emergency situation when it really counts.
9,800 miles so far and no problems *YET* using the red "kill switch" on a DAILY BASIS.

I'd rather learn sooner than later that switch isn't working as its supposed to. When you need it, your rrreeeallllllyyy gonna need it. So why not use it daily and remove it as a potential failure sooner than you would otherwise?
jimc wrote:
I suspect those who advocate it also do the 'average' miles in the trade price guides, and only ride in dry sunny weather.

So OK for Hardley Rideables in the drier US States, but not for daily Vespa commuters or high-mileage tourers in Europe at least.
I put a 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers) a month on my MP3 400 and use the kill switch at least twice a day EVERY DAY with no problems yet after 9,800 miles. I've had the bike for the past 9 months.

If you consider Austin TeXas a "drier" state being 200 miles (320 kilometers) from the nearest ocean, then so be it.

chris
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onsiteaudio wrote:
If you consider Austin TeXas a "drier" state being 200 miles (320 kilometers) from the nearest ocean, then so be it.

chris
This hasn't made the news yet. Didn't know "Austin TeXas" was a state... Laughing emoticon


Amarillo, Texas 650+ miles to ocean.
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Bohemian wrote:
onsiteaudio wrote:
If you consider Austin TeXas a "drier" state being 200 miles (320 kilometers) from the nearest ocean, then so be it.

chris
This hasn't made the news yet. Didn't know "Austin TeXas" was a state... Laughing emoticon


Amarillo, Texas 650+ miles to ocean.
Not far from the Great State of Amarilla, I heard! Razz emoticon
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Austin TeXass a state?
lol

Austin TeXass a state? Razz emoticon

why sure!

TeXass is so big on secession from the union I figure Austin can be its own country too. tee hee Clown emoticon
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Riding the MP3 will put one in a new state of mind, even better than drugs. Can cause one to be in a different state of consciousness when at the keyboard as they relive the ride they just finished.

In my Texas State History class at O'Henry Junior High in Austin we learned that when Texas joined the union it was a large area with minimal population. The agreement gave up land to the U.S. government that extended from El Paso to near the Canadian border. It also gave the state legislature to split Texas into as many as 6 states when the population grew.

Now you have one more piece of trivia to use up space in your brain.
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Fuzzy wrote:
Riding the MP3 will put one in a new state of mind, even better than drugs. Can cause one to be in a different state of consciousness when at the keyboard as they relive the ride they just finished.
8)
Fuzzy wrote:
In my Texas State History class at O'Henry Junior High in Austin we learned that when Texas joined the union it was a large area with minimal population. The agreement gave up land to the U.S. government that extended from El Paso to near the Canadian border. It also gave the state legislature to split Texas into as many as 6 states when the population grew.
Thanks for the history lesson. Nerd emoticon I can appreciate it.

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Well well well - a kill switch can cause a problem even if never normally used. My elder son's X9 125 wouldn't start - the LED just flashed continuously (which the manual doesn't acknowledge possible). Turned out one of the male connector pins on the kill-switch had just sheared off, preventing the main system relay from working.

I'll make a new post in General Discussion, as it will apply to most Piaggio models.
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This is currently being talked about in another thread.

My manual (LXV) says the "engine shutoff switch" (i.e. killswitch) is the manufacturers recommended way of shutting off the motor.

Why do it any other way?
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<groan>
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I have been afraid of ruining my switches (key and kill) so I have taken to yanking on the spark plug wire. Goofy emoticon
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I use the kill swtch just cause it's called the Kill switch!

For you literalists, I'm kidding, I don't.
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BO....... ROFL emoticon Wha? emoticon ROFL emoticon LMAO
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KILLSWITCH
norCal Randy wrote:
I've always used the ignition switch to turn a motorized vehicle off. But at the same time I always forget to use the kill switch in an accident too.
That's the reason I use the killswitch to turn the motor off. The *hope* is that if / when I'm ever in a mishap, I'm fully versed in killing the engine quickly if need be. And if the switch is going to fail, I want it to do it sooner than later.

horses for courses i suppose

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Kill Switch
Ya know, my kill switch somehow failed, and I did not even have the switch off when I turned off the engine. I never use it but brought it into the shop and found out that the inside was filthy as heck. One of the techs got it off, cleaned it out really well, and I have gone a good 6 K miles so far, and not an another problem. They did not teach me so many years ago about the kill switch, because their was no such a thing, not even in the motorcycle training course.

But maybe be a good idea to check it every once in awhile. You don't want to be stuck on a mountain somewhere, and no one for 30 miles. What I did in that situation was coast on down the mountain with the key turned on and let the flow of the wind with the luxury screen bring me 30 miles back down the mountian to civilization, where somehow, when I flipped it a couple of times, the engine finally started. And did not have to even use the cell phone for roadside assistance....
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jerryw wrote:
My car doesn't have one. I have used it twice on the MP3, in emergency, then couldn't figure out why the bike wouldn't start and that other red light was on.
Then again, if the throttle on your car gets stuck, you can always shift into neutral and apply the brakes to stop the car. If that happens on a scooter, there is no neutral until the throttle is released. Best to know where the kill switch is without having to think about it. I use mine every time I start/stop the scooter. I do it without thinking. If I ever need to use it in an emergency situation, I won't have to look for it. More importantly, I won't have to take a hand of the grips to kill the bike using the ignition.

So many habits that we form on the bike (good and bad) make it so we don't have to think. We just react instinctively. Instinct can save lives, but you have to develop those instincts.

They hammered that into us during the MSF course and it's something that has stuck with me.
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jimc wrote:
Switches that are 'open to the heavens' will fail on their 'make' contacts. They won't fail on their 'break' contacts. So the kill-switch is good for emergency cut-off. It isn't good for daily switch-on - posts passim.

I suspect those who advocate it also do the 'average' miles in the trade price guides, and only ride in dry sunny weather.

So OK for Hardley Rideables in the drier US States, but not for daily Vespa commuters or high-mileage tourers in Europe at least.

It is described as an 'Emergency Cut-Off' switch. I will only ever use it as such.
+1

and
jimc wrote:
<groan>
+1 I'm groaning with you jimc. People, your ignition has an off position with a purpose....which is to turn it off.

Emergency cut off switch aka kill switch is for emergencies. I took the MSF class 17 years or more ago but I don't recall ever being taught to use the kill switch for turning off on a daily basis.
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gopam wrote:
jimc wrote:
Switches that are 'open to the heavens' will fail on their 'make' contacts. They won't fail on their 'break' contacts. So the kill-switch is good for emergency cut-off. It isn't good for daily switch-on - posts passim.

I suspect those who advocate it also do the 'average' miles in the trade price guides, and only ride in dry sunny weather.

So OK for Hardley Rideables in the drier US States, but not for daily Vespa commuters or high-mileage tourers in Europe at least.

It is described as an 'Emergency Cut-Off' switch. I will only ever use it as such.
+1

and
jimc wrote:
<groan>
+1 I'm groaning with you jimc. People, your ignition has an off position with a purpose....which is to turn it off.

Emergency cut off switch aka kill switch is for emergencies. I took the MSF class 17 years or more ago but I don't recall ever being taught to use the kill switch for turning off on a daily basis.
They didn't teach you FINE-C?

F - Fuel on/off
I - Ignition
N - Neutral
E - Engine cut off
C - Clutch
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MC Course....
F - Fuel on/off
I - Ignition
N - Neutral
E - Engine cut off
C - Clutch


Yup they did teach that last year in my course... These were things to Check for when starting engine on MCs and Engine cut-off many times can get switched off when moving the bike around. The Instructors here always recommended using Ignition switch for Normal shutting engine off.
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Re: MC Course....
Thunderscoot wrote:
Yup they did teach that last year in my course... These were things to Check for when starting engine on MCs and Engine cut-off many times can get switched off when moving the bike around. The Instructors here always recommended using Ignition switch for Normal shutting engine off.
Maybe it depends on the instructors? Ours emphasized using both (engine cutoff and ignition) when turning the MC on/off to make reaching for the engine cutoff switch instinct. In a pinch, it's much better to be able to rely on your instinct (your brain knowing exactly where the switch is) then having to think about where it is.
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Just accept it - there is the US way (and it has some reason) and the rest-of-the-world way (which also has some reason). Choose your own viewpoint, don't feel you have to accept any one else's POV as gospel. Just think about the EVAP system though - does that make sense on a tiny-tanked scooter? The "US way" isn't always the most logical...

This has been done to death before, it's become very boring. I'll ignore this topic from now on. Frankly, I'd rather lock it or delete it, but that would be an abuse of power.

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