Modern Vespa

Hey guys, especially Eric,
This guy has a 1968 Blue Badge Sears Allstate for sale. I am awaiting pictures and haven't seen it yet, but he says it's in good condition and runs well. Let's pretend it's in decent, not great condition--what do you think I should offer? I'll post pics as soon as I get them, but couldn't find much info about that particular model's worth.
Thanks,
Todd

UPDATE: The guy decided to drive it down to me, which was cool. The bike seemed great, so I went for it...we settled on $1,300--Main reason I got him to go down from $1500 was because the gas tank had a ton of little holes on the top and needs to be replaced. Besides that and some scrapes here and there, it runs really good. What do you think?

68? I'm wondering if this is the "Sprint" style Allstate. I would say if everything is there and working 1500-2k. It's a buyers market out there that's for sure. We need some pictures of this thing

No such thing as a '68.

Last year was '66.

I bet i can guess the year in 10 questions

Is it a smallframe or a largeframe?

If largeframe, is it 10" wheeled or 8" wheeled?

If 8" wheeled, is it 3 speed or 4 speed?

I don't think it's the Sprint model because he says it's a 125. I found this link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=hoICGdQLHPsC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=1968+sears+allstate+vespa&source=bl&ots=zIKXNqG-dI&sig=9PvbAFn0iLv3yprodTfJC8Oz7o8&hl=en&ei=dFJnSuSWFNXtlAepoOXdDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

yeah, it's long, I know... anyhoo, they show a 125 small frame and a 150 sprint for that model year. Are small frames a different animal? Am I too fat for a small frame(250 at 5'6")? Are small frames harder to find parts for?

I thought that the last year made was 67?

Now I'm really confused. Until I get pics, all I know is that he described it as a 1968 vespa sears blue badge, 125 cc., nice shape, 1100 miles, runs good, all original-I guess he really never said Allstate, so maybe I'm mis-speaking.

If it's a late 60's 125cc then it's a small frame. Maybe the guys mistaken and its a late 50's (1958) Allstate large frame with 125cc engine. I dunno, we need pics bro. Got a VIN#?

I won't have pics till at least tomorrow (he told me he would have to figure out to get pictures on the email-ugg), and he's about 2 hrs. from me so I'm not ready to take a trip over there yet. In the mean time, I thank you guys for your input.

Well, good job. You just discovered one of the many errors in the Bob Darnell book!

If it's the bluebadge primavera, it's a 1966. There is no ifs, ands or buts about it.

I agree. I had one and it was described as a 68' on the registation. Not sure why. It was also listed as a 49cc.

eric is right again

my buddys cow is a true 66 blue badge special

my bluebadge sprint was registered as a 67, I think the sat in crates and got registered as whatever the year the were first unpacked

So the guy wrote me to tell me he has the pictures on his computer but just cannot get them on his email ??? But, he did give me the VIN, which is: VMA1T012776. So yes, Eric and everyone else, it looks like it's a Primavera. Now that we know this much, is this a good model to buy? I know we need pics, and more info on condition, but I just wanted to have some idea of what to offer him if it's in pretty good condition (which is the only way I would get it). I just wish he was closer to me so I could pop over to check it out for myself.

Original paint, good original condition ....$2k-ish...tops of $2200 ( if it's got the bluebadge and such on it )

anything else... less than that...$1600...$1700...etc

It's a fine bike, though.

-Eric

Thanks Eric, I'm still in the process of helping the guy try to send pics over the interwebs, but I'm kinda excited to get this. Are parts and restoration swag easy to get for this model? How fast can one go?

Most parts are pretty easy to find. That being said the cowl flap is one that isn't so hope it's got one. It should top out around 50mph it the motor is clean.

It's a really nice bike for a couple reasons :

1) yes, parts are pretty common. Realize that most smallframe parts are compatible with one another up until the ET3 switched over to the PK-series.... that was when you had your 'vintage to modern' sort of transition, like how people see the Rally evolving into the P200, etc.

2) This bike is nicknamed a "smallstate" because it's a smallframe allstate... get it? There's a guy in my club and on MV named "smallstate" who's pretty good with these

3) It can be a decently powerful engine if your clutch plates are good and grippy, and your top end has decent compression. I've ridden on primaveras that were dogs before... and i've ridden on some really zippy ones. It's all about how much power that engine is making ( Because it's capable of a decent amount ) and how much is making it to the rear wheel ( versus being lost in the clutch due to worn plates )

4) the carb is tiny on that bike - 16mm The exhaust is also restrictive. Changing it over to a more modern exhaust and a 19mm will definitely gain you a couple hp.

my buddy is over 250

we put my et3 pipe and a 19/19 on and he likes it

the nuova/smallstate was the the last bike designed by Corradino D'Ascanio. it is pretty and easy to ride. FAR prettier than the primavera. the smallstate is prettier than the nuova (the vespa version) for one reason- the mickey mouse taillight. it is a 50 mph bike all day (maybe 54 downhill). that being said, it does not get up to 50 fast. i would only change a 3 things on a dead stock smallstate. definitely change out the 1.carb and 2.intake manifold. the factory 16/16 carb is tiny and restrictive. the bike begs for a 19/19. and i would change out the 3.exhaust. someday, maybe they will make a sito-ish smallframe exhaust that looks stockish. until then there are a lot of non stock looking exhausts. any of them are less restricted than the stock one. oh, one more thing. keep the OG parts. someday people might pine for a 100 mpg 50 mph period correct vintage vespa. and, a factory smallstate is that.

Well, you guys have got me all excited now, so I think I may take the long-ass drive out to see this scoot. I only have $1500 to offer the guy at most, even if it's in awesome condition, but I'm gonna try to go cheaper if I can. I think he may go for it, because the way he describes things, it seems he doesn't know much about the bike (or the interwebs, for that matter). If it's in average condition for it's age, do you think $1500 is a steal?--(the whole reason I am asking you guys for so much reassurance is because I really need to convince my wife of this purchase, or it can't go down--yes, I'm a kept man...

Thanks again everybody--especially, Eric and Smallstate!

yeah, i think that's a reasonable price.

Depending on the condition I would start out at around $1000. You might get lucky. Then you have $500 to barter with if you need to. Unless he is reading this forum. Then you will probably be stuck paying $1500.

So it's mine now! It needs a new gas tank, and eventually a back seat, rear rack, etc. But for now, it starts on one or two kicks, has pretty good pick-up, the engine is clean and sounds good, brakes work nicely and it only has 2 dings and a few scrapes. I am going to go over the paint with rubbing compound because it's discolored with a light red staining all over it (probably over spray of some sort?), but I rubbed it down on a little spot and it looked great.

congrats. nice bike. btw, i used to live in in hemlock for like 4 years.

That is very very nice...mickey mouse tail light, blue badge and all.

What makes you think you need a new gas tank?

Thanks, guys. I lurve it! The gas tank needs to be replaced because it must've rusted or something on the top and made about 1,000 little pinholes that leak gas like a siv when you ride it. He tried to patch it with this gloppy sealer paint-Black-yuck-but it didn't take (see the pics to see the mess) and came right off.

Smallstate--here's an even weirder BTW...I lived in Roseville (Meier between Garfield and Kaufman) my whole un-adult life and I visit it regularly-my mom still lives in the same house.

trippy.

you can get a replacement smallframe gas tank for about 100 bones. i don't know if that comes with all the hardware.

Already ordered it from Scooterworks, should be here Friday. It's hard for me not to ride it too much, but it's messy, so I'll wait till i get the new tank on. I'm sure I'll have lot's of questions for you in the future Smallstate, I'm so glad you are on the forum.
Todd

nice that u have buy it and enjoy ur vespa mate.. its a nice vespa (not saying about the leaking gas tank )

dude... that is very, very nice.

Nice find....Guess you are going to miss the Deroit Rally with it this year ....
A couple of us from Grand Rapids are going to ride there accross the state....Can you say Grand River?

Seriously, you can't limp that thing along and bring it to our rally?

You can clean out that tank and line it with red kote in less than 48 hours. Get er done!

If he gets the new gas tank on Friday, and the old owner delivered it to him, and it runs great, why not?

gas tanks on a smallframe take 3 minutes to swap out ( minus the tap tomfoolery )

Same with the large frame non oil injection and yes the tomfoolery is included with the tap...man I would love to go to that Rally if I had the chance.

Ha ha....what about the tap tomfoolery? Guess it depends what kind of tools he's got access to. Still could be easily done in no time at all.

If I had known I would have a vintage scooter a couple weeks earlier, I would have definitely came out to the rally. Alas, I already have something going on this weekend, not to mention I am topping out at only 39 mph so far.

BTW, I received the tank today! Damn, Scooterworks is crazy fast-I ordered it Sunday night! I think I may have to order something more, tho. The tank doesn't have anything for my seat screw to lock into, just an empty 1 1/2 in bowl? Does this mean I need to have a nut welded into it? Also, I haven't looked at how to replace the tank yet, but the guy did give me his fuel tap wrench, so I'm hoping that will make things easy. I was kinda bummed that the gasket for the gas cap wasn't included, but I'm thinking I can use all of my old stuff on the new tank. Am I missing anything else I haven't mentioned? Are there any alternatives for the seat screw into the tank? Thanks...

ah yes..because you have the single saddle seat, which hinges at the front... you need a certain tank that has a little plate with a threaded hole in it to bolt it down.

An alternative would be to buy a bench seat and a seat pin ( which i would do anyways, because i can't fit on a saddle ) and ditch the saddle. Then you don't have to sweat it.