Modern Vespa

I just did an 1,150 mile trip on my GTS and suffered a belt breakage on the way back. Jess indicated that on the longer 300 mile plus days during the Cannonball it was common to see guys snapping belts.

On the BV500s, the X-9s, the Scarabeos, Burgmans, and the MP3 400-500s is it common to have belt breakage after pulling long highway days near top speed, or are the belts on these scooters beefed up to handle to anticipated cruising they might do?

I like to ride long distances, and though I love my GTS, I may have to add another larger bike to the stable for the longer trips. Plus, my ass was killing me after 700 miles on the GTS.

Well, in all fairness, two of those belts were snapped by the same guy... You can trust me on this, because I pulled the fibers from one of those destroyed belts out of the pulley by the side of the road in the broiling heat... IMHO, the source of all these belt woes is the use of "high-performance" parts; belts, CVTs, springs and so on. Plenty of stock GTx-class scooters have crossed the US, in the 04, 06 & 08 Cannonball events, without breaking belts.

RE the maxi scoots, I still haven't heard of anybody breaking a belt on a maxi yet. I'm certain that folks have and it'll be interesting to hear what they have to say. The main complaint I've heard wrt maxi scoots is that the maintenance can be pricey, but it's not more than a GTx-class machine.

We own two 650 Burgmans with about 15,000 miles each on them. I am not aware of any weaknesses in the drive trains of these bikes. The 650 Burgmans have a belt or two down there someplace, the final drive is geared.

With a bike like a 650 Burgman, their top speed potential is such that you're not likely to be cruising steadily up there (105-110 actual mph), but at lesser (and normal) highway/interstate speeds that still may be rather hard on a scooter half it's displacement when ran for extended periods, the larger maxi-scooters are happily in their element under these conditions, or at least the 600cc Silver Wings and 650 Burgmans are.

At 75 actual mph (83 indicated) our Burgmans are running smoothly and quietly at around 5500 rpm in 'overdrive' with a 3000 rpm 'reserve' to redline at 8500.

Probably the best place for info on the various over 500cc scooters is
http://burgmanusa.com/ and http://www.maxi-scoots.com/postnuke/

If there's a chronic mechanical weakness in these machines, there will be owners there who have found them. So far I haven't.

The closest I've come to a long run on my BV was about 200 mines at 75mph but the belt didn't snap. I never had one snap on my Honda Reflex either.

8)

I ran the Cannonball 08 on 1 belt. I never cracked the trans cover in the 7000 miles traveled. My MP3 was on the road just about 8 hours a day for 20 days. My MP3 is stock. I replaced the belt when I got home and it did show some wear.

R.B.

I think you were just unlucky with your GTS. I wouldn't get into the frame of mind that it's a normal, or even a fairly common, thing for belts to snap on long trips. (How old was your belt when it went? Was it anywhere near replacement?)

Me and the Mrs have taken an X9 250 and a GTS 250 on several 300m days, and several 1000m-plus trips, fairly often involving days flat-out on the motorway, with no belt problems on either bike. The only thing we do is to choose to have the belts replaced a little early. We generally get belts replaced every year as part of an annual service. Which has meant replacing belts at around 8k miles, even though I know people regularly get 12k out of belts.

Both bikes are stock, though. I've no experience of "performance" parts, but, purely anecdotally, I have heard lots of people who have these parts fitted experiencing more mechanical problems than people with stock bikes.

The bigger maxiscooters can have belt breakages - 8000 miles is pushing it for an X9 500 that is ridden hard. For that bike at least, the OEM belt is better quality and cheaper than any aftermarket 'performance' ones.

I've only done around 200 miles in one day, but the advantage of a BV500 is probably similar, but lesser, to the Burgman. It's got a top speed of 100 mph, so you aren't riding WOT all the time on the highway. At 65, it doesn't feel like it is working very hard and I'm guessing the belts are bigger for a 500 vs. a 250.

On the downside, the seat sucks.

Shane

HOW LONG HAD IT BEEN SINCE YOUR LAST BELT CHANGE or HOW MANY MILES DID YOUR BELT HAVE ON IT TO BEGIN WITH?

I have never had a belt break on my BV500 OR on my GTS 250 but I changed my belt on the GTS at a little under 6,000 mile.

I have also done 250 miles a day on the BV and I'm comfortable riding at 75 mph. The only problem I had with it was the notorious fuel pump hose issue which I fixed.

My belt went at about 7400 miles. I had done a 700 mile day two days before, and was doing a 400 mile day when it let go. One difference to factor in is that the temps here are in the high 90s for most of the time I was riding, except at night or in the mountains. It was all hot riding on the last day.

jimc, that brings up a question that I've been struggling with for sometime. Is it really worth it to put all these after market parts, better exhaust, shocks, etc on a Vespa, or in reality and scooter? I mean I see these posts about how many, not all but, quite a few people are dealing with issues after they installed some of this stuff. Maybe stock is just better. I realize that some of these things enhance speed, but if I want to go faster I'll just buy a bigger, faster scooter. your thoughts?

X9 Owner with a aftermarkets exhaust, no other mods. No bike, despite the size should just be snapping belts. I got 22,000 miles out of my original belt and have 15,000 plus miles on the second. 95% of my driving is hwy and my average speed is 80Mph (I am always late and running behind).

JLB: After reading this board every day for about a year, it appears that many people have had their belts fail between 7000-8000 miles so as a matter of caution, I intend to change the belts on our GTS.& GTV at 7000 miles. I think that because you were close to that zone when you left Florida on your trip that the excessive summer heat and riding at continuous Interstate hwy. speeds just added to the failure. If you had changed it before you left Florida, I strongly suspect that despite the heat and continuous high speed, you would have completed the round trip without a belt failure. I don't understand why the larger scooters appear to get more life from their belts but from the posts that I've read about this subject, it appears that they DO last much longer so I intend to change my BV500 belt between 12-15k miles.

It looks like we're all having quite different experiences vis a vis belt life. Must admit that I'd never given it a 2nd thought (because I always considered that changing my belt every 7 to 8k miles was erring on the side of caution and so there was nothing for me to worry about).

I'm now starting to think that maybe I've just been lucky so far, after reading you guys' experiences.

Just a thought:
I wonder if due to the smaller wheels on the GTS and other Vespa branded scooters, the belt has to make more revolutions than the larger wheeled scooters which would cause the belt to wear out quicker. Never really thought about it but it makes sense to me.

My personal opinion it that apart from possibly the variator[1], aftermarket 'performance' mods are a waste of money - though they may be fun. The mods devalue the scooter, so you get less on resale than a mint stock bike, and the reliability goes only one way - down.

The biggest mistake that is made is thinking a Malossi Kevlar Performance Belt is better than OEM - the OEM is Kevlar too, and over here at least considerably cheaper.

That said, when a tatty old Piaggio mild steel exhaust finally rusts through, it's worth getting a stainless aftermarket one.

[1] The take-up on some scooters can be a bit juddery, especially on the bigger heavier scooters. Some aftermarket variators eliminate this - the J Costa in particular. Expensive, but the improved riding experience in traffic is well worth it IMHO.

I would think that the larger scooter belts would last longer because they are built sturdier to handle more torque and HP, and that during 99% of their life they are not being run at full throttle like the GTS belt is having to do with a lot of touring on the highways.

In checking my owner's manual to be certain, it appears that any belts in the 650 Burgman drivetrain are 'vehicle lifetime' items that do not require direct scheduled maintenance or replacement. Belts are not even mentioned at all in the manual as a matter of fact.

This is consistent with my experience with the 650.

It should be mentioned that the Burgman 400 is an entirely different scooter however, and not just a downsized 650, so there may be some belt issues with that bike not present on the larger machine.

If you compare the Quasar drive train belt (GTS250 etal) and the Leader drivetrain belt (MP3-400/500, BV500), the Leader belt looks to be about 40% thicker.

We just changed the belt in my wife's GTS at 8,500 miles (it had just started to have some rubber smell going up hills).

I have almost 12,000 on my BV500 and am still on the original belt. I check it every 2,000 miles or so. It still measures good. I have ridden long runs at high speed with no issues. My most recent long run was to Amerivespa last month. My longest day was about 400 miles and I covered about 1,800 miles in 10 days.

I would characterize my riding style as "spirited". I tend to ride longer distances, rather than just in-town commuting. That may account for my longish belt life.

-Arjen

Arjen: That's good information.
Thanks!