Modern Vespa

I broke one of the nipples off the evap valve on my my 2008 GTS250ie trying to take the hose off to let the liquid gas evaporate out of it.
How do I get the d@% thing out to replace it.
Is there an online manual that will guide me through it?

Moved to General Discussions.

Don't replace it. Remove it completely, your scooter will thank you!

What would I do, just disconnect the hoses from the tank and carburator and plug the nipples?

Let the hose from the tank dangle earth-wards as a vent/overflow. Leave the carb end open.

Jim...on Wiki post Part 1 evap. hose disconnect covered. Part 2 the tank hose is not addressed (?)...perhaps and update to current Wiki post?

I believe many have done Part 1 and believe it is sufficient.

I've had Part 1 is done, I will attempt Part 2 this weekend...I checked out the filler neck and there is just one tube coming from the filler neck and secured along the the chasis...this is the one to cut...right? Any specific cut off point?

Technically, you should plug the hose that goes between the intake manifold and the evap cannister. It won't kill it not to, but it should be closed.

And from the evap valve to the carburetor, do I leave them connected? The evap valve is still full of gas. It poured out when the nipple broke off but there's still quite a bit in there.

I appreciate you input on this. It sounds like I was causing my a lot of grief for nothing.

Thank you.

Technically, you don't have a carburetor. The hose goes to an intake manifold, and that hose should be plugged.

LOL. Your right.

Thank you.

Jess, there appears to be a conflict of evidence here. Apparently (I do not have first-hand evidence, but I listen to 'those who know') the UK carbs have exactly the same connector pipe - but it is left open. (I confess I find this strange.)

One way or the other, this point should be cleared up, as there is conflicting advice coming from two sets of 'reliable sources'.

I'd be very happy if I'm proved wrong or otherwise - I just want the correct advice given.

I believe the point was that the GTS is fuel injected.

I have done four of these: Three on GTS/GTV models.

1) Take the line coming from the tank and cut it. Add an extension so that you can make it long enough to run towards the ground. Use a wire tie to secure it so won't be loose.
2) Take the line that comes from the canister to the throttle body and cut it but leave five or six inches of hose attached (towards the throttle body).
3) Plug this piece of hose with some sort of plug. I used metal bolts that fit tightly in the hose and added a worm clamp to ensure that it couldn't come out.

That's all you have to do. You can either remove all the Evap equipment or leave it where it is because it's no longer functional after you perform steps one and two.

Hope this is clear enough for you. Takes less than ten minutes to do everything.

On a carb, you're definitely correct. It should be left open. On the fuel-injected GTS, though, the hose from the evap cannister leads to the intake manifold, at a point after the throttle body. You can run it open, but then it technically is pulling un-metered air from atmosphere into the metered flow of air* that's already passed through the throttle body. Of course, the lambda sensor should end up compensating for the slightly-off mix, so it's a minor point at best.

*This assumes that the throttle body actually meters the airflow. It looks like it has apertures inside for doing so, but I do not definitely know that it does.

OK - big clue understood!

Carbs - leave pipe open.

FI throttle bodies - close up - is that correct?

Spot on. I would only add to this (for clarity) that it is the length of hose going to the throttle body that needs plugging, not the other end of the same cut hose that goes back to the cannister.

That's it, to the best of my knowledge.

Yeah, Jess............You're correct. I wasn't clear on that. Plug the hose that's going to the throttle body.

This has all been very helpful. Thank you all. It sounds like I'll be riding tonight.
I'm new to the scooter world and am loving it. I use to ride a kaw 1500 nomad until I had an accident and lost my left arm. When I found out scooters are automatics I immediately went out and bought the nicest one I could afford. Now here I am with my GTS250ie, and loving it. What a fun ride.

Thanks again, you've all been a great help. The local dealer wanted to charge me $250.00 for something I really don't even need anyway.

Ouch, sorry to hear it. Do you just rely on the front brake full-time, then? Not that there are any alternatives to that, just wondering how you deal with rain or loose surfaces.

I swapped the break lines so right break lever works the back break. I had to change the blinker to the right side too.

My left arm is totally paralyzed, so I had my hand removed so I could wear a prosthetic device. I haven't found a "hook" that holds the grip properly, yet, so I just put on a standard hook and wrap a rubber band around it so it doesn't fall off the grip. I know it's not the most ideal or safe thing to do, but I love to ride, so what am I to do.

Oh, I'm not arguing. If I was in your shoes, I would do the same thing.

I didn't think you were, sorry if I came accross that way.

I had a guy, bike mechanic, try to make both brakes work off the right lever with no luck. The problem he came up against was the master cylinder not being strong enough to push both breaks adequately. He tried several different master cylinders but the biggest problem he ran into was the lack of room.

Any suggestions?

I would definitely feel safer with front and back breaks.

One could use the dual-brake pressure regulator used on the X9 and BV500. Under all but extreme emergency conditions this provides quite sufficient braking assuming 'smooth riding'.

Shouldn't cost a bomb either.

I agree with JimC. Since the dual brake, pressure regulator that is used on the X9 & BV500 controls one front disc and one rear disc, it seems like it would be ideal for your situation. Please let us know if you find a solution that works for you.

I know what the BV500 is but, I don't know anything about its master cylinder. Do you know if it will fit inside the handle bar casing / housing, or even with some slight modification to it. Or are you referring that the master cylinder I have will work I just need to add a duel break regulator.

It would be GREAT if it works. I've had a few close calls that would have been nice to have both breaks working.

I am a little confused, if you can only operate one brake, why would you change it so the one operating brake was the rear brake? I think one could get along pretty well with just a front brake but with just a rear brake I would think stopping would be quite difficult. I really admire your determination.

Not to make this more confusing, but couldn't you also plug it at the manifold and remove the hose? I've seen this done on a BV500 with something like a silicon plug and I am considering doing that myself.

Shane

Also, when I removed the entire evap system on my ET4, it had the hose connected to the intake manifold in addition to the one on the carb and the tank filler. I plugged the one on the intake manifold going to the canister.

Shane

You can just add the pressure regulator. This is what the entry and exit pressures are like through the regulator for the front, the back gets all the entry pressure:

While the front brake definitely provides more stopping power, it is positively deadly on a loose or wet surface. Overapplication of front brakes on a slick surface will result in the front wheel sliding out from under you, and you'll be on the ground before you even know it.

It's happened to me three times already in my short riding career.

At least with the rear brake, if you lock it up you can generally recover before completely losing it.

You might also consider buying an Sym Symba (lists at $2,600)
http://www.sym-usa.com/line%20up/symba/line_up_symba.html

It's only a 125cc, but it has motorcycle style brakes, and a 4 speed transmission with an automatic clutch (no clutch lever)

Good luck with it!

Harvey

Ok, I disconnected and removed the the evap system. A white round canister with one red end and a black rectangular box that had another valve at the bottom end connected with a clear hose. I left a piece of hose, about 5" long, connected to the intake manifold. I put a bolt in the open end of the hose with a clamp on it. It's still wont start without twisting the throttle and dies when I let it off. I took the bolt out and it stated right up and stayed running. While it was running I plugged the hose with my finger and it stayed running and I could feel the suction on my finger. I turned it off put the bolt back in and it wouldn't start again. I took it back out and again it started right up. Should I take the bolt out and put some kind of foam filter on it?

Scott:
Did you cut the hose that comes from the top of the gas filler? This hose runs from the top of the filler and wraps around the inside of the engine compartment on the left side to the evap canister. If you haven't done so, you need to cut this hose and add about one foot of extra hose using a fuel line coupler so you can run it towards the ground for any run-off when you overfill the tank. This also allows the tank to breathe so you won't have any surge and stalling problems.

The other hose that you cut from the canister that goes into the throttle body SHOULD be plugged. I've done four of these "canisterectomies" on fuel injected Vespa engines and have not had the engine cut off when the throttle body hose was plugged.
**You need to make sure that you cut and are plugging the correct hose. The hose is easy to identify because it terminates on a brass fitting that is attached to the top of the manifold at the throttle body. It's the only brass fitting that you can see while looking downward at the manifold.

If you have correctly run the drain line and cut and plugged the correct hose that goes to the manifold, I would disconnect the battery for 10-15 minutes, reconnect it and see if it will run. This will reset the ECU. Please let us know what you find.

Yes, the hose I plugged goes to a brass fitting. I haven't extended the hose from the tank yet, I need to stop on my way home from work today to get a sleeve to connect the extension hose, but it is open.
I'll try the battery thing this evening, after work. Is there anything else that could be effected by this procedure?

Scott: Not that I'm aware of. I've done four of these on my own scooters and helped a half-dozen other people via PM's and telephone and no one else has had this happen. Also, quite a few people have posted on this forum that they had followed this same procedure and NOT had any problems. It doesn't make sense that you should be having this problem.
As long as the tank can vent to air and if you have plugged the hose going into the manifold, the scooter should actually run better than it did before. When you reset the ECU, please post back and let us know what happened.

You're doing all the correct things, so I'm a bit mystified as to why the engine is cutting out. While I generally don't resort to suggesting this, you might try disconnecting the battery for a couple minutes and then reconnecting it in a (probably superstitious) attempt to reset your ECU.

This is me, grasping at straws.

Oh, also open up your air filter, if you haven't already. Make sure that (a) it's not filled with gas, and (b) that it seems reasonably clean.

Well, I got home from work, everything was as I left it, plug in and clamped. I tuned the key and it started right up and you're wright, it is running better then it ever has. I don't know what happened, but I'm happy.
I did not check the the air filter. I just assumed that the two clear caps on the bottom would have something (gas) in them if the filter was soaked. I could be wrong that's just what I was thinking and didn't check it.
I really appreciate everyone's input on this.
Now I just need to take care of my break problem, just not today. I'm just going to enjoy riding in this little heat wave we're having.

Thank you