Modern Vespa

I would like to know if anyone has figured out how to cut down on the pollution from an old 2 stroke? I have P200E and really like the scooter. I do not want to buy a new 4 stroke, but am willing to spend money to clean up my scooter even if it is only some.
Thanks,
Steven

Really I don't see much point. If anyone has an idea I would like to hear it. If you want to save the environment buy a bike. I actually ride a bike around most of the time. Mostly cause I'm poor but I do enjoy it when the weathers nice.

You can either sell me the P200 or I can sell you my carbon offset credits. Either one is okay with me.

+1

I've got super-special 2-stroke offset credits, and they're a steal at only $500.00 each.

- Eric

ps: you'll need to buy a few to really offset that smoke belcher.

You're always going to be emitting a fair amount of particulates because it's a two stroke and burning oil by design.

That said, the modern synthetic oils are said to be considerably cleaner than the oils of the '60s and '70s that these originally ran on, not to mention we're not using leaded gas any more.

If it's smell you're concerned about, there's some sort of oil you can buy that emits a strawberry scent and isn't as offensive/noxious to some people.

In the grand scheme of things, remember that your two stroke engine is much more efficient than a four stroke (getting power for every stroke of the piston) and, given your scooter's light weight, you're using a lot less gas than a car (not to mention an SUV!) to cover the same distance. In the big picture, when you consider all of the pollution involved in the extraction, refinement, and transportation of the oil/gasoline from one place to another (ultimately to your local gas station), take comfort that to get from A to B you're contributing a lot less overall pollution because of the fewer litres/gallons of gas per km/mile.

While you can't use this logic vs. a newer 4 stroke motorcycle (though a two stroke is still more efficient by displacement, and hence can be lighter), remember that you're reusing a vintage(?) frame, rather than contributing to the production of a new vehicle and all its plastics, etc.

It's how I sleep at night as I go past the student's environmental club at work.

ADDENDUM: If you haven't already, make sure to check out the Channel 4 documentary The Global Warming Swindle which essentially debunks CO2 as contributing to the Greenhouse Effect.

Go and set fire to a Hummer that'll make up for 10 2ts for life

i want to say that phaetn has said all there is to say.

your footprint is minor because of the mile per vehichle used is awsome considering you have recycled an old item instead of purchasing something for the same mile that requierd large amounts of coal burning energy to make and advertise and distribute.

old 2t /mile = maintnance,gas,air

new car /mile = one huge carbon footprint

agree with Jimmy - the fact that you bought something old and are keeping it alive rather than buying something new and all the foulness that manufacturing creates almost negates the more polluting your scooter is.

You could always put on a new catalytic exhast and go down to a 20/20 carb from your 24/24. It will lose a TON of power, but your fuel consumption will decrease and so you emissions go way down.

-Eric

I wouldn't worry about it too much, if emisions are important to you you really need to buy a four stroke. I wouldn't be surprized to see a shifter four stroke in the future

+1

And you probably will - by way of Stella.

That said, I'll be keeping my P, and not buying the Stella, unless something goes terribly, terribly wrong (e.g., P gets totaled)

Warning do not try this with your scooter, but I'm curious if anyone has done experiments with caster oil which people use in model airplane engines in 2-cycle engines. AFAIK, model airplane fuel is alcohol, nitromethane, and caster oil. The problem with caster oil is: if thickens in the cold.

Apparently something is available, but I would want to research some reviews before trying it. Engine tolerances may not allow its use: http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=Red_Line_Two-Cycle_Smokeless_Oil&form_prod_id=488,378_4501&action=product

Sometimes groups of 20-30 motorcycles pass my house. When we set up
scooter rides, we also get large groups of
scooters. I'm not going to stop riding my 2T burning machine, but

[SARCASM] if we all car-pooled together, and rode in 2-3 cars instead of
12-15 scooters, we would save more on gas. 8)
If everyone in the country rode one-passenger vehicles(like scooters),
we would have much more pollution, and higher consumption
of fuel. Look at the videos of Asia .[/SARCASM]

Check it out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr5Gssaxl6g

That's why I have 4 2-stroke scooters 8)

Rob

What about installing an exhaust from the newer PX150's? Aren't they supposed to be catalyzed?

Sarcasm or not, isn't that actually true?

*shrug* of course, I'm not someone who bought any of my bikes to be "green"... never did get that... if I wanted to be green I'd ride a bicycle or take the bus.

I've been using the IPONE synthetic 2-stroke oil that is strawberry scented. When I run the scooter often it doesn't smoke very much at all, but when it hasn't run in awhile I get a big cloud of smoke til it warms up then not much to speak of. I think it doesn't smell bad, if perhaps not exactly like strawberries, but I've noticed my old-school friends think it stinks like a french wh@^e.

My other ride is a 2003 Civic Hybrid (which I bought in 2003, before the "green" craze and before gas prices went through the roof) so I figured between the two my footprint would be a wash. I don't understand how people think tearing out perfectly good things (like oak flooring) and replacing them with a sustainable (like bamboo) is green....unless the item is beyond saving to me it is a waste of resources. To each their own, but I guess what I'm trying to get at is that if everyone makes a REASONABLE effort to be a good Earth citizen, recycle, conserve where it makes sense, repurpose, etc...haven't we done our part?

it was somebody here at mv that said

(probably eric or greasy, couple of know it alls ) or patrick owens

if you maintain your bike and keep the carb top notch and run the right

plug and tune it to the tee and have the correct air pressure in your tire's

you will be doing the enviroment a huge favor.

i beleive in smart positive action.

a dirty, poorly maintained anything is the worst thing you can do for the

enviroment, speaking automotively



MIND OVER MOTOR-IF YOUR MOTOR IS ON YOUR MIND, THAN IT DOES'NT MATTER

The oil injector on the p200 will go a long way to reducing the amount burnt. Using a good synthetic oil will help. Adding a good expansion pipe will actually help maters by shoving most the unburnt fuel back into the cylinder. A 20mm carb would help as well.

Be kind of fun to take a baseline and then see how good you can make it.

LMLs that come over here are about as good as you can get emisions wise. But ride one and youll wanna give it some Fred Flintstone. The engines are gagged to fuck. It's not worth it.

Its a government thing anyway they wanna look good doing something about the enviro and 2t scooterist are a minority. Easy to point out to average joe as a baaaaad polutant as average joe cant be bothered to check it out and join in with the finger pointing.

Theyve done tests with them from a cold start so they will kick out some shit. Then they test gas guzzlers start them warm them up and then test them when they are runin at there optimum.

If they do get rid of t2 well have to buy a new one thats just come from a factory thats ........ you get it ....... Ive run away a bit there

What's wrong with a little 2 stroke aromatherapy?...

i added your name to the know it alls in my post above yours

Thanks for all the responses to my pollution question. It seems the only immediate answer is synthetic oil and keep it tuned up. I ride bicycles a lot, mostly for recreation, but sometimes as part of my long commute.

I teach engineering so I might still be driven by my curious side to see if there are other reasonably economical ways to cut the pollution some.

It seems like the exhaust area is the first place to start. I will need to find a way to get good readings on where it is at now. That may also shed some light on what we are really doing in terms of pollution running these scooters. The next area might be fuel injection at the carb. More than that seems like using a later model engine and/or major changes.

Thanks again and happy scootering,
Steven

What you need is some of them zeolitic imidazolate framework chrystals that clarkson used on top gear

Also on the positive side is that there are no oil changes and filters to "properly" dispose of.

don't get me started on the positives of our 2t's.

my neighbor(or i should say old,they moved to portland )would complain about my 2t. she smoked cigs and had a diaper service pick up her diapers, she always tried to tell us how we should use a diaper service. she said it was better for the enviro

so i wipped out a bunch of info on the process for mining and refining and the burning and disposal of coal generated energy. her dipy service uses lots of coal burned energy.

we in the USA use large amounts of the stuff.

i then told her the comparables on nuclear gnerated energy and i swear i saw fire come out of her ears

she never bothered me about my little 2t again

People, please! We are jerking off spiders here. I get the distinct impression that many of of our "environmentally sensitive" brethren are more kosher than the rabbi, and would have us go back to living in caves and eating roots and twigs and raw carcasses of animals that suffered a natural death. I refuse to feel any guilt about riding a 2-stroke scooter or turning on my a/c when the outside temperature is in the 3 digits. Give us all a break!

I consider road kill a natural death

You don't change your Gearbox oil?


Rob

You know what I mean

One more thing that can cut down on oil consumption is delivering the oil directly to the bearings instead of just into the fuel/air.

The casting on p series cases have an oil passage that goes from the injector pump over to the flywheel side of the case and down to the fly side bearing. At least on the US market bikes this passage was never drilled to make it functional. Not sure if they ever used it on later bikes.

Interesting to note that on the GS/SS cases there were passages as well that would allow the flywheel side bearing to be lubricated by the gearbox oil. It has two seals, one on each side of the bearing, so the oil be splashed by the gears to a passage high in the gearbox and then there were two passages at the bottom to let the oil return. Again these were not drilled and made functional and they opted to just pack the bearing with grease.

Hear hear!

I don't feel any guilt about riding my 2stroke bikes. 2strokes have some advantages with regards to nitrogen oxides and there are ways to reduce the hydrocarbon emissions. Trying to improve the emissions is really no different than trying to improve power.

amen! I refuse to worry about this

I have a "hippy" friend that wanted to get a scooter after seeing mine. Once he found out about emissions he changed his mind. He rides a bike all year and feels great about it, but then flies at least twice a year. I guess he doesn't realize that planes pollute. It's funny how he ignores things like that when it suits him (like eating organic food that's flown from New Zealand, and trucked from California). Don't try and tell me my 2 stroke is a major cause of pollution.

copper, thats hilarious!!

i got a tree huggin neighbor that goes to burning man EVERYYEAR and drives his 66 vw van that spues smoke like a cigar shop.

but he can't keep his mouth shut about 2t's

Different strokes for different folks (literally!).

We all have different tolerances and beliefs over a myriad of issues, so let's just do what makes each one of us comfortable personally without infringing too much on others.

If someone doesn't want to get a two-stroke because they feel it's a pollutant, so be it (and there's no way you can argue against the fact that it does issue a lot more particulates than a four stroke). I'd never buy a hybrid or an electric car because of the environmental can of worms over the batteries at the end of the car's life cycle, but that's just me. Others feel quite comfortable with them, and so be it.

That said, I'm going out for a ride. I love the smell of two stroke mid-morning.

I love it too 8) meh, I'm happy to burn the 2-stroke, I'd be even happier with a big V8 something to play with (daily, I have to drive a small diesel anyway) and environmentally I'm very secure with that because I don't fly unless it's absolutely essential, recycle everything I can, eat mainly local produce, and always turn my electrical shit off.

I don't need to wear the environmental badges, keep your battery cars, birkenstocks and body odour to yourself

One fairly interesting development in the world of 2-stroke motorcycles is Envirofit's adaptation of Orbital Corp's DI system.

Andrea

I just read about that...

This the only D.I. I know of...

If you don't like 2T smoke then F*CK OFF.

D.I. might just save the environment in the 3rd world countries... i hope they can get their shit together and make those things functional, cheap, and easily installable REAL soon.