Modern Vespa

What do you do about it?? I ride the speed limit, yet on a couple of occasions I have had cars overtake me in the other lane for reasons that could only be down to them being pissed off I'm on a scoot and perhaps my rights to the roads are less. Last night it was on a road in North London and this cock overtook me nearly wiping out oncoming cars. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just an attitude to expect from some of the nutters out there

Don't forget that our speedometers overestimate your actual speed by something around 10% or so. So if you think you're doing the speed limit based on indicated speed, you're actually below the limit and that's why they're passing you.

Oh I didn't realise that! At the worst though I would be going 27mph in a 30mph London back street. Surely that's not too slow

Most drivers here drive 10 to 15 km/he over the limit so for the impatient, it would be too slow.

let them past the further away from them you are the better let them hit someone else

its a bastard that cars seem to think they own the road in London. But without getting all road ragey, try and make a statement on the road. You don't by any chance ride on L plates do you? For those "I am allowed to be on the road without getting taken for a fool" times you need to have a Stebel Nautilius Horn fitted in.. see how they react when they think a 80 tonne truck is about to run them over but in reality its YOUR SCOOTER honking the stebel! lol Since I've installed it, people do try and take the piss but, they get whats coming to them if they did..! HONK HONKK!

I am on L plates. Sometimes I'm riding and car hear a car coming at speed behind me, in traffic, and I think 'what's the rush'? There is traffic ahead of me, there is no way I can go faster or move off the road. It intimidates me a bit and makes me nervous.

I found that when I was on L-plates, people have the tendency to think that I am inexperienced so they would overtake like mad! The thing is, if the car behind you is speeding up.. he/she can blatently see you, he can't do anything, nor will he/she try and run you over. Make sure your seen, wear some sort of reflective gear.


Get A Stebel Nautilius Horn I Say!

I wear a high vis vest and a white helmet, and I'm on a light coloured scoot. They see me alright, they just seem to resent the fact I'm not a car

it's a combination of a few things:

1. as Benny noted, your speedometer is very likely to be optimisitc so when you think you're going at the speed limit you're probably going a few mph under it. that pisses off the average london driver. even cars going a bit below the speed limit get overtaken, or at the very least tailgated.

2. the L-plates. many london drivers feel compelled to overtake PTWs bearing L-plates. it gives them a feeling of ... well, actually i don't know - superiority maybe? i noticed that i got treated a lot better when the L-plates came off.

3. macho-poseur indignity at having a scooter ahead of them. note that this attitude applies to both men and women. some drivers simply can't stand having something that cost about 1/10th of their car, on the road in front of them. it makes them feel inadequate. an example: i was stopped at a set of traffic lights over the weekend, next to mr. midlife-crisis in his BMW convertible. there is another set of traffic lights about 200 yards up the road. when the lights changed, i pulled away first and was a few car lengths ahead of mr. beemer. his response was to gun it so hard to overtake me, that he had to slam his brakes on and leave long black skid marks in the road in order to stop at the next set of lights. there's nothing you can do about that sort of twattery.

as you gain experience you'll find yourself riding a little faster and the cars will stop overtaking you. for the moment, though, ride your own ride and be prepared for it. don't be tempted to ride closer to the kerb - that will simply encourage more overtakes than you're presently experiencing.

Ride at an indicated 35 in the 30's. No camera or Plod will mind if you are 1 or 2 mph over the limit.

Ride in the track where a car's offside (drivers side) wheels go. I expect on the CBT they told you to ride in the centre of the lane "for the moment" - this will only encourage car drivers to try to overtake. Then there's always the twat who wants to do 60 in a 30 anyway...

i beeped a man for not going when the traffic lights turned green, i then changed lanes so he sped up, undertook me and pulled in front of me, then when we came to a roundabout he slowed right down and started beeping his horn at me over and over,what an idiot!! "sorry mate i didnt realise you owed the road, il just wait behind you for the lights to go red again!"

On an ET4, if you ride in the 'right-hand tyre track' position recommended by the IAM, the buggers have enough room to sneak up on your inside instead

Here is a quotation from an encounter I had with a particularly dim and aggressive car driver a few months ago:

In the defence of car drivers My better-half, chooses to sometimes over take L-platers. This is because she had one fall down in front of her.
I do sometimes agree with her too, sometimes when behind an L-plater they can be wobbly and all over the road, concentrating on the control of the bike with such intensity that they have no road awareness. It is a worry that they will go down and you will end up squishing them.
I know we were all like that at some stage. (for me not that long ago)

Just my 2-pennies worth but a CBT and a couple of L's is inadequate.

Yep that is true, when you put it like that. You just never know with L-platers sometimes. Word of the week! & Advice of the week!

If you don't want to get passed here, you ride 45-50 in a 30mph zone.

so is that what that big red L is on some leg shields? i'm guessing they make you put it on your license plate as well on the back? when do you get to take those off?

When you pass the 'big kids' test

Gory details of the hoops we have to jump through (some of which I thoroughly agree with BTW):
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/PracticalTest/DG_178328

is there a similar process for driving cars? does one get to have a large red L on the car too?

Certainly do! It's supposed to say "this driver is a learner, please be patient and take extra care", but in practice you might as well wear a bullseye on the front and back of your vehicle

Yes, same for cars. The difference with cars is that you cannot drive at all unless there is a qualified driver in the passenger seat.

At the moment a learner motorcyclist can ride unaccompanied - this may change in 2013, and we are fighting against it! It'd make the cost of getting a test pass on a PTW prohibitive for the majority of scooter riders[1] - and incidently would hugely increase the cost of pizza delivery - plus the pizza would probably be cold if delivered in a car!

[1] Estimates are that starting from scratch with a rider with no driving or riding experience, it'd take 5 full one-on-one days of lessons with a qualified trainer on average, plus the hire of the bike etc. This would be about double the cost of the average car driver training.

That would stink if law passed. By accompanied you mean another qualified rider next to you on a separate scooter or behind you in the passenger seat?

I always wondered why they don't have pizza delivery here in California on scooter. I considered offering my services to the local Italian place. It makes so much sense. Italian pizza by Italian scooter. I would just need one of those insulating bags to keep it all warm.

Do they they have drivers ed in public schools in the UK? What is the driving age? They cut the high school requirement and rely strictly on private instruction. The legal age is 16 here in CA with laws stating that you can't carry anyone outside your family 'til you're 18 (for cars as far as i know).

btw jimc, has anyone told you that you look like brett favre? former american football quarterback?

On another bike - and presumably for bikes a qualified instructor. No, but it is under active consideration. 16 for mopeds (under 50cc, under 50kph), 17 for all other vehicles (cars etc, with caveats about age limits for large motorcycles). Nope.

That's good Jim because you don't want to look like Brett Favre.

He cries a lot at press conferences.

I had a dickhead undertake me the other day. I pipped my horn and he stuck his finger up at me out of the window

I was driving my BMW in London the other day when.........

Hey specs, think of it as a good thing... In a round-a-bout way.

If they blast past you they are driving like an arse, so, if they are driving like an arse you want them infront (1) because then you have a better view of them and (2) because if they are infront of you they cannot hit you.


Or wait untill they hit the inevitable traffic and wave as you roll past them (warning: may provoke a bad reaction from Mr Fuckwit)

Even a true 30 is often a bit slow for plenty of roads in London (my view). If a car was in front of me doing 30, there are plenty of roads where I'd look to make a safe overtake if possible.

BUT, if I'm in a car, it's highly unlikely that there will be space for me to overtake another car, so I end up following the (slow) car in front. However, if there's someone on a small scoot (OP has an ET. No offence, but it's a physically small scoot to my eyes. Charming, and lovely, but small.), then I reckon a lot of car drivers will think that they've got enough room to o'take it, and so they'll have a go.

Apart from keeping up with the traffic, and holding a good position in your lane, I don't know what else you can do. At least you're now on the alert for something like this to happen in future.

Good luck

Apart from the IOM where the legal driving age is 16 for cars too - you just have to then show an 'R' plate for a year, where the theory is that you're limited to 50mph (bike & car) - not that you'd know seeing them drive .

Yowza, and I thought the DMV 'lollipop' test was bad!

Slightly off the original topic, but many yeras ago I used to drive a lot in and around London in my capacity as a member of Her Majety's Royal Air Force. My first journry was to take a high ranking officer and his wife to Buckingham Palace to attend a garden party.
I drove down by the palace to the roundabout out front and the traffic was nose to tail. I kid you not I went round the roundabout 6 times before I eventually managed to move over enough to exit into the Palace. Every time after that I drove like other Londoners in that basically anything goes and forget the highway code just go with the flow, and was amazed how much easier and enjoyable it was. Everyone wants to get to their destination yesterday and anything that gets in their way be it car, scooter, bus, artic, has to be passed at all costs.Having said all that I really enjoyed driving through London.

o my gosh, i didn't realise that! I did wonder why a car overtook me the other day right in front of a speed camera where i was actually doing the speed limit! hmm... food for thought.

O my gosh, don't let them intimidate you. You have as much right to be on the road as they do and at times you need to let them know that. If you are in the middle of the lane they can not edge you off the road. If they overtake you just ignore them other drivers i'm sure will think that they are idiots. I'm on L plates and have only been riding for just under a month. When idiots are so much up my backside I usually turn around and look at them when I have the chance or I continuously shake my head - this usually does the trick for me and they keep their distence. I think at first they fail to realise that you are actually human and that you existence matters. When in traffic and individuals are getting impatient it doesn't bother me to be overtaken (althou this has only happened 3 times) as I just end up passing them anyway through the traffic - when I do so I shake my head and then who looks like the prick

I live and ride around north London too and being a car driver myself I have just accepted that there are many idiots on the road.

where can I get this horn from and how much will it cost me all in?

I suffer the same idiotic Stupidity everyday on my commute to work, you can be just 100 yards from the dual carriage way yet someone always feels compelled to overtake you! 20 seconds more and they would have the freedom of the dual carriage way to drive like they have a stick of dynamite on a timer shoved up their arse.

Have you noticed that if you overtake anyone in a car they see it as a sign of weekness? and have to reclaim their spot?, i have learned to just ride safely at my speed and if some dumbshit behind just cannot stand the fact 2 wheels are in front of him i let them past.

As long as i get to work on time safely thats all that counts to me.