Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:55 pm

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:55 pm linkquote
I'm new to the vespa world and also this forum. About a month ago I bought a 2001 et4 from an impound lot for $300 with no keys and a lot of damage. Since then I've gotten a new module (cdi?) With two keys and found that it will not start. The battery was weak, so I replaced that, but no change. Starter engages for about 2-3 crank then just whirs. Feeling like I should do something, I changed oil and filter, but haven't done anything more. I would appreciate advice from anyone who would like to offer it. I'm thinking of replacing the starter and cleaning the carburetor, just to eliminate those from the diagnosis.
Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:58 am

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3694
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3694
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:58 am linkquote
I would first make sure that the engine isn't frozen. Remove the spark plug, then turn over the engine with a wrench on the variator nut. If the engine is seized up I'd abandon the project, wouldn't throw any more money at it. What other damage does it have?

I'd begin with a look at the starter clutch. (I had a scooter with similar symptoms. The starter would only intermittently turn over the engine, then just spin. It turned out to be a broken starter clutch. Wasn't a Vespa, so I can't tell you much more than that.)

A new starter relay would be another cheap item to try.

Good luck!
Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:35 am

Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
 
Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:35 am linkquote
Make sure your battery is fully charged and you have clean connections
Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:40 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:40 am linkquote
The battery terminals look good and the battery is holding up well. I've been checking it with a volt meter periodically since it's new and I don't want to drain it too low.

It was laid down on the right side. Lots of scrapes and cracks. Also someone managed to force the seat open so that's going to need repairs. Until the previous owner decided to try their luck at drunk driving, I think it was pretty well cared for. The fuel hoses look new, all the hold downs and clamps are intact. Even seemed like it had had an oil change recently, judging by the state of the oil.

I tried the kick starter a couple times before I bought it and it seemed like it turned over with good compression, so I'm holding out hope that the engine is ok. If not, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at a rebuild. I've rebuilt a lot of small block and big block Chevys so this would be a very different experience, but I'm not afraid to try.

I'm liking the starter clutch idea. I hadn't thought of that. If the symptom sounds right to you then I'm going after that next. I assume this means tearing into the CVT?
Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:02 am

Enthusiast
2005 GT200L: (-Jiffy5-) 2013 GTV300ie: (-RBBaron-) 2021 GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 95
Location: Canada
 
Enthusiast
2005 GT200L: (-Jiffy5-) 2013 GTV300ie: (-RBBaron-) 2021 GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 95
Location: Canada
Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:02 am linkquote
Welcome and good luck with the re-animation of your scooter. It sounds like you have some good knowledge of where to start. Show us some pics of your cheap ride when you can.
Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:30 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6508
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6508
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:30 am linkquote
Yes, pics are obligatory!
Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:44 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:44 am linkquote
I've got it pretty torn apart right now. Dropped the exhaust to do the oil change and haven't bolted it back up yet since I'm still looking for the oil pressure sensor, and I just pulled out the carburetor to get that cleaned. Looks more like a heap of parts at the moment. I'll get some pictures after work.

Also, can anyone tell me where to look for the oil sensor? I'm at a loss.
Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:20 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:20 am linkquote
Here's the scooters good side



Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:22 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:22 am linkquote
Here's the not-so-good side.



Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:29 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12814
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12814
Location: Oregon City, OR
Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:29 am linkquote
The "not-so-good" side looks much better than I expected. Seems like you could just ride it as-is if you chose.
Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:11 am

Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 426
Location: Wales
 
Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 426
Location: Wales
Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:11 am linkquote
One problem that drove me crazy with it not running correctly was my vacuum hose was just slightly to big. Pushed on ok but when under way would let air in which caused all sorts of running issues. I knew best so went through everything else first. 🙂
For reference I think vacuum line has i.d. of 4mm and fuel i.d.of 5mm if I remember correctly may save you some greif in the future.
Yes remove variator for starter Bendix. Ok to use power tool/impact gun to remove but not to put back on may strip threads on crank(don't ask me how I know). Might as well do belt and rollers to with variator removed. Good luck with it.
Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:21 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:21 am linkquote
Thank you! That's good information. I'll check the hoses. They don't look original. Too good of condition to be from 2001. I'll give it a go this weekend and let you know how I get on.

As for condition, apart from the scratches and a couple cracks, and the r.h. mirror being snapped off, it's not terrible. It's hard to see the scratches in the picture. They're pretty much everywhere. If I could get it to start, I think I'd feel good taking on the road just as it is (with a new mirror, of course).
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:10 pm

Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
 
Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:10 pm linkquote
Put a battery tender/charger on the battery or load test the battery to make sure it is fully charged

The oil pressure sensor is on the right side of the engine
Lift the rear right side mat, remove the phillips screw
Carefully remove the rear cover, gently pull from the center and release the rear then slide the piece to the rear
Remove the cooling fan cover, 4 or 5 phillips screws
You will now see the oil pressure sensor to the right of the fan

The scooter looks to be in better shape than I thought it would be
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:13 pm

Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
 
Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:13 pm linkquote
Don't forget to change the front brake fluid
Easy to do but it is a slow pain in the as..

I don't know how many miles on the scooter but a valve adjustment maybe in order
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:41 pm

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:41 pm linkquote
Welcome. Looks like it'll clean up nicely- not too much damage.

Here's what my little sister did to mine:


When your family use your Vespa…

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:55 pm

Enthusiast
2001 ET4 "Mona"
Joined: 09 Sep 2021
Posts: 95
Location: South Jersey
 
Enthusiast
2001 ET4 "Mona"
Joined: 09 Sep 2021
Posts: 95
Location: South Jersey
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:55 pm linkquote
Welcome Just Another! You're new to us and we didn't get the chance to say welcome.

I think your ET4 is a beauty! Absolutely loved the pics.

So many cats have chimed in already with great advice.

Sounds like you're not afraid to work on it. Have fun!
Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:44 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6508
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6508
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:44 pm linkquote
it looks pretty darn good despite the history, I think I'd give it a go with some polishing compound and rock it as is.

looking forward to watching your progress.
Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:30 pm

Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2008 GTS 250
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 857
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 
Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2008 GTS 250
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 857
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:30 pm linkquote
Here is a good YouTube to guide you along:
Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:57 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 5149
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 5149
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:57 am linkquote
I did not watch the vid above, but if it's only cranking 2 to 3 times, you have a battery/starter problem. Meanwhile, check for spark, clean the carb, check the cvt area and starter bendix and report back. Scoot looks pretty good for what it is.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:43 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:43 am linkquote
Cleaned the carburetor. Pretty sludgy. Pulled a vacuum hose going to the intake and fuel readily flowed from the other hose, so fuel delivery shouldn't be a problem. I'm going to find a way to test for spark next. The Kickstarter isn't starting it, so there's got to be some kind of ignition problem here. I haven't heard it fire of once.

OscarSass: oh wow. I'm so sorry to see that. Do you still have a little sister?

Thank you everyone for all the advice and information. I'll be a while working through it all, but keep it coming!
Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:04 am

Member
LX50, P200E
Joined: 15 Jul 2022
Posts: 45
Location: A terrible place to exist outside DC
 
Member
LX50, P200E
Joined: 15 Jul 2022
Posts: 45
Location: A terrible place to exist outside DC
Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:04 am linkquote
Hi,

Do you have the fuel tap under the tank that also has a vacuum line attached?
if so, the only time fuel should flow is if you introduce vacuum to that line...
Either when the engine cranks or, attaching a vacuum tool.
If it flows freely without that, you need a new fuel tap.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:55 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:55 am linkquote
That was a typo on my part. What I meant to write was I pulled a vacuum on the hose and the valve opened. I should proof read my posts. You can picture me with the vacuum hose in my mouth sucking on it like a straw and gleefully observing the fuel pouring out of the fuel hose.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:56 am

Member
LX50, P200E
Joined: 15 Jul 2022
Posts: 45
Location: A terrible place to exist outside DC
 
Member
LX50, P200E
Joined: 15 Jul 2022
Posts: 45
Location: A terrible place to exist outside DC
Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:56 am linkquote
Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:09 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:09 am linkquote
Just Another wrote:
OscarSass: oh wow. I'm so sorry to see that. Do you still have a little sister?
Yes, unfortunately… and I have to buy birthday presents for her kids! 🤪

Can't help with engine diagnosing due to not working on the 125 4 stroke before. The rest of the bike, I've taken apart - so feel free to ask. 👍
Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:55 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:55 am linkquote
I appreciate that. I work on light- and medium-duty trucks. All of this is new to me. I knew this would be a very different animal, but the carburetor took me by surprise, and I had no idea the style of starter I'd find. I feel like I've been downgraded to lube tech again! Absolute novice.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:02 am

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1713
Location: Toronto
 
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1713
Location: Toronto
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:02 am linkquote
Is the bike getting spark?

Anything going on with the immobilizer light? Does it turn off when starting bike, or blinking some code? (Or is the new CDI you installed a non OEM bypass unit, and maybe immobilizeris out of the picture now?)
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:21 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:21 am linkquote
I replaced the CDI because the bike had no keys, but it still has an immobilizer. When the key is turned on, the light turns on for a moment and then stays off; however, it does blink continuously when the key isn't in the ignition. Not sure if that's normal. Doesn't seem like it should since it only serves to run down the battery.

Haven't found a way to access the spark plug yet. I was pretty focused on fuel until today, so I haven't made much of an effort yet. I'll be going for that hopefully tonight.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:38 am

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1713
Location: Toronto
 
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1713
Location: Toronto
Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:38 am linkquote
Just Another wrote:
I replaced the CDI because the bike had no keys, but it still has an immobilizer. When the key is turned on, the light turns on for a moment and then stays off; however, it does blink continuously when the key isn't in the ignition. Not sure if that's normal. Doesn't seem like it should since it only serves to run down the battery.

Haven't found a way to access the spark plug yet. I was pretty focused on fuel until today, so I haven't made much of an effort yet. I'll be going for that hopefully tonight.
Your description of the immobilizer light sounds normal. The important thing is that once the key is in the LED does its test blink and then stays off.

(It blinks continuously when key is out to act as theft deterrent. This blinking stops after 48h to avoid the battery drain you mentioned.)

Good luck on the spark - I think that will be useful to verify.

The whirring you mentioned sounds odd to me too. As others have said, you probably need to check out the starter and bendix, in addition to getting the motor itself sorted out.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:49 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:49 am linkquote
Has a good strong spark! Still can't figure out how the spark plug would come out. Do you have to drop the engine? Hopefully the plug is good, but I bet it's original. Can't even see it well enough to know if the ceramic is cracked or not.

Replaced the oil pressure sender at last. Not that there was any indication it was bad, but better safe than sorry.

Hopefully going to coax it into starting tonight. If not, back to the drawing board. I'll let everyone know as soon as I get it going. Or if I can't, for that matter.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:21 pm

Enthusiast
2001 ET4 "Mona"
Joined: 09 Sep 2021
Posts: 95
Location: South Jersey
 
Enthusiast
2001 ET4 "Mona"
Joined: 09 Sep 2021
Posts: 95
Location: South Jersey
Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:21 pm linkquote
Just Another wrote:
Do you have to drop the engine?
No, you don't need to drop the engine. But it might help! I changed my plug by taking my time, losing much skin, and swearing a blue streak. I finally got it!

But next time (used an iridium plug) is a ways off. When it needs changing I think I WILL drop the motor. There's a video in the archives on how to do it. Basically protecting/removing the airbox and undoing the shock mount.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:22 pm

Member
LX50, P200E
Joined: 15 Jul 2022
Posts: 45
Location: A terrible place to exist outside DC
 
Member
LX50, P200E
Joined: 15 Jul 2022
Posts: 45
Location: A terrible place to exist outside DC
Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:22 pm linkquote
the spark plug is a pain in the neck, but not 'undoable'.
No need to take out engine.
Do a search on 'Robot removes sparkplug' in youtube.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:24 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7657
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7657
Location: NWAOK
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:24 pm linkquote
Make sure the spark plug cap is not broken and will click onto the spark plug. Before you start throwing money at it, you can bench test the starter motor and bypass test the starter relay. If they test out, move on to something else. It looks like someone tried to hotwire it. Check to make sure the wiring is fine. When you put in the new CDI, did you first try to start it with the red or brown key and not the blue key? You will need to use the big key first, and mate it to the CDI. Once you get the thing running, you can worry about programming keys, hiding the brown key etc.
If the engine locks up, pull the flywheel before you dive into the top end. They are notorious for coming apart and locking up the engine and it's better to find out that's your problem before you're hunting down top end gasket sets because you took the engine apart and it's still locked up.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7657
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7657
Location: NWAOK
Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 pm linkquote
Just Another wrote:
Has a good strong spark! Still can't figure out how the spark plug would come out. Do you have to drop the engine? Hopefully the plug is good, but I bet it's original. Can't even see it well enough to know if the ceramic is cracked or not.

Replaced the oil pressure sender at last. Not that there was any indication it was bad, but better safe than sorry.

Hopefully going to coax it into starting tonight. If not, back to the drawing board. I'll let everyone know as soon as I get it going. Or if I can't, for that matter.
There are times when it seems like a good idea to drill a hole through the metal so you can get a tool onto the plug. But what you need is the spark plug wrench that came in the tool kit. It's the best one for getting in. I just bought a couple of tools from a company in Taiwan called BikeService. One's a prying tool for taking plastics apart without completely destroying them, which might come in handy taking apart headsets, and the other one is a thin wall spark plug socket that seems perfect for getting into the Vespa. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks easier to get into the hole than most of the ones that come with socket sets.
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:59 am

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:59 am linkquote
Sorry I dropped out for a while. Been a hectic couple weeks. Just drilled out the lock for the helmet case. Went a little wild, but I think it'll be ok. Just need to install the new lock cylinder. The seat lock is less good. I don't know what happened there, but when I got the bike the lock cylinder and the mechanism for moving the latch were both already gone. Can't see why since the seat had been busted open anyway. Does anyone know if the lock cylinder housing for an et4 can be bought separately from a new seat? The local vespa dealer doesn't sell it. I'm hoping not to drop a 100 bucks on a seat just to get a tube with a little metal bar on the end. If anyone has a parts list for an et4 and could give me the part name or number, that would be great.

Fixed the right hand mirror with super glue and a die. Feeling pretty good about that.
Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:42 pm

Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
 
Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Portland OR
Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:48 pm

Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
 
Member
Et4
Joined: 14 Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Location: MN
Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:48 pm linkquote
Nice! Thank you!
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