Modern Vespa

[quote="JLB"] I edited it because his pic is upside down from the angle I saw when I was on my back.

I think I will try and shoot some pics of mine and let you guys see what see.

He has the worm clamp to stop the bushing from creeping but he also doesn't have the exhaust collar that I mentioned in my last post. That collar stops heat from burning the brake line that runs above the exhaust in that area.

It's underneath that clamp. The gasket is about two inches long, and rests over of the exhaust manifold. In turn the muffler pipe (the one with the slots) goes over top and the entire assembly is clamped together.

Harvey

My exhaust has been removed by local mechanics at least 3 times for tire changes and it's not slid down (perhaps they remove it at the manifold, I don't know).

13,000 plus miles on the muffler bearing and no problems.

There's supposed to be a collar on the muffler bearing to keep it from creeping but during installation I had to hold it in place with a vice grips to keep it from sliding down. After clamping the snot out of it it hasn't moved a bit.

Here's a couple pics from the Vespa Recall bulletin, it will make the fitting easier to understand:

Harvey

It'll only slide out if the clamp isn't done up enough AND the exhaust slots were splayed out to aid insertion of a new collar. So very rare normally.

Pics









It looks like there may be a gap where there shouldn't be because I can see that graphite thing you were talking about.
Both manifold studs and bolts appear to be OK.

Smooched; time to replace.


Harvey

Yep...............you need a new, graphite bearing.

Harvey, if I take my '07 into a Vespa dealer will they fix this under the recall?

No, you have the new part (that flange on the exhaust manifold). You'll probably have to pay for the gasket replacement. The gasket is around $30. If your local dealer doesn't have it, I'm pretty sure motorsport scooters have them on hand.

Sorry.


Harvey

Gaineville Vespa (Daytona was closed) just said i was about 30 minutes labor and $10-15 for the part. Does that sound about right?

Also, should I trailer it to Daytona (about 50 miles) or just ride it? I heard about burning brake lines....

The part is closer to $40. You could replace it yourself by just removing the clamp and the muffler from the swingarm. You're probably not going to have any problems if you decide to ride it to the dealer because you have the newer design with the exhaust collar.

+1

It's quick, but a bit fiddlely work- you don't want to damage your new one going on- it's fairly soft. Have the dealer do it and check it (as you did the old one) before you roll off the lot.

Good luck with it!

Harvey

OK, I did get Daytona Vespa on the line and Mike the service tech said it was $35 for the part and he would put it on for free!

He's also going to PDI a Symba so I can test ride it while I am there.

My suspiscion is that when I had my rear K-61 put on by the local sport bike shop they buggered the graphite sleeve while doing it because they didn't know any better. It took nearly 4,000 miles for it to fail though.

Thanks for the help guys.

You didn't warn them then?

This is why taking the wheel off yourself is IMHO the best option - and cheaper for labour costs - which may be sweet FA if you pay full retail for the tyre.

It would be easy to blame the sport bike shop for screwing it up. I choose, however, to blame Piaggio for fragile design.

I didn't know any better either, back then. I replaced my Sava at 2,500 miles and have ridden another 5,000 miles now, so I'm getting used to the quirks. I replaced my belt and rollers last weekend.

Good man - you are learning, as I hope we all are.

Shit keeps breaking, so I have to learn whether I like it or not.

Yep, shit tends to do that. Happily most of it is easily sorted once you work out wehy it is there in the first place - can't quite grip that with the EVAP system you guys have though...

Hey folks,

So I got my GTS back from the shop again today and rode it for about 3 hours on the interstate back to Augusta from Atlanta. The exhaust held up fine, and I didn't have any trouble keeping up with traffic, but there still seems to be a persistent buzzing/grinding vibration coming from the engine that has got me worried. Two mechanics at the shop rode the scooter around and said it felt normal, but I'm almost 100% sure that certain spots in the rev range and much less smooth than they used to be. It almost feels like the variator or clutch bell needs to be cleaned, but I just had the 6,000-mile service done about 200 miles ago, so those should be fine. Also, the engine was very smooth before the bike went into the shop for this last round of repairs.

Any ideas about what might be causing this?

Thanks,
Scott

True. Piss-poor engineering. Or accountant-based design. Call it what you will...it's sucky.

I would blow out the transmission case with compressed air. Check your shock mounts (top & bottom) and engine/swing arm to frame mount in case they're binding.

Harvey

[/quote]

I would blow out the transmission case with compressed air. Check your shock mounts (top & bottom) and engine/swing arm to frame mount in case they're binding.

Harvey[/quote]

Gave the thing a good cleaning with some Brakleen, which, as you might have guessed, seems to have cleared things up nicely. Thanks for the tip.

One eye jack, Thank you for this pic and solution.
I have been having issues with my pipe connection loosening and sliding too. We have "fixed it" twicew in 2 wks. I will put a clamp on like that dang so simple... Why couldn't i have done that the first time.

Where did you find this ??? My shop hasn't got this yet... at least the tech didn't know. I think i am gonna go this route. And recall the part for fixing. Thanks!

The GTS muffler recall was 1-1/2 to 2 years ago as I recall. Depending on the age of your scooter, the recall may not apply (as in it's already fixed)

Is your dealer *really* a Vespa dealer? If so they must be bloody thick not to have got across the tech bulletins.

Well my dealer is only like a year old. And i just "fixed the exhaust problem once already... and within a week it is doing the same F'ing thing. Maybe they didn't fix the problem with the recall. My exhaust "bearing" looks diff than the recall replacement.

Well, after cleaning out the transmission case the bike accelerates much more smoothly, but I'm still getting the same sort of vibration as before--a persistent, grinding buzz that you can feel throughout the frame. Some things I've noticed are:

1. The vibration becomes stronger when traveling between 50 and 60 mph (indicated) and during deceleration.

2. It also becomes more noticeable when the suspension is compressed, like when the bike sinks after riding over a low bump or shallow dip in the road.

How do I check the mounts to see if they're binding? Do I need special tools? Should I just ask the dealer to check it out for me?

Thanks!

Scott

When the mechanics replaced your broken exhaust stud, they probably removed the rear shocks, and raised the rear wheel to swing the head down & give access to the broken stud, or they removed the engine completely. Check the rear shock mounts to see if they are loose or too tight- the uppers are visible with the pet carrier out. The lowers are behind the air filter one side & the muffler on the other. They are mounted on rubber isolation donuts- if the rubber is heavily compressed, you'll feel vibration (like when they're replaced with Jettin' sport bushings). Check that the shocks aren't in metal to metal contact with the frame from over tightening, or a donut's been forgotten (not very likely, but fairly easy to check). Also check that each shock has the the same preload- the silver sleeve with the ramp and flats with the knurled ring above them.

Let us know what you see!

Harvey

I just removed the exhaust for the umpteenth time and discovered that it's a lot easier to access these bolts if you set the scooter on a side stand, if you have one. YMMV

OK, my turn now after 16000 km.
Donna Rossa started to 'moan' some trips ago.

Triggered by the noise I checked this treath and looked under Donna's skirt to examine the exhaust.
Actually, I am a bit puzzeled what I would need to see there.
My GTS had the exhaust recall done last autumn.

Nevertheless it is mixture of what is on the Before-After picture. I do not have the collar on the flange...simply straight (like the old)
I do not see any sign of a tubular gasket there.
It looks like there is only a brass ring that is now 'embraced' by the clamp, making no sense regarding correct exhaust airflow fitting.



Last question (curiosity AND concern): How can a broken muffler bearing cause heating damage to rear break line. This is located almost on the other side of the engine. Does it get that heated even when vented by driving wind?

In the picture where it says replacement...........look to the left of the red arrow and you will see (sideways) the collar/flange (black) that is being mentioned. You see the shiny piece on that pipe in the picture and it's several inches to the right, up the shiny part of the pipe where the pipe color turns from silver to black. It's located on the down pipe from the header and almost where the muffler pipe joins with the down pipe. The bushing/bearing is located inside the muffler pipe where it joins to the other pipe. In the picture, the round item to the far left is the bushing/bearing.
Are you sure you don't have the collar/flange? If not, then somebody didn't replace what they were supposed to at the recall.

Yep, I have a sidestand, thanks.

Why have you had to remove your exhaust so many times? Is it because you are changing tires, or has your gasket failed multiple times?

At the moment there is neither the 'collar' nor a bushing/bearing inside the pipe (where flange and exhaust connect)

The bushing might have been there, but it is gone for sure. The depth from the clamp holes are deep (I can see through)

Then your motor must be fairly loud? With nothing there, the brake line can melt or catch on fire so I would suggest that you get it back to the dealer and insist that they replace it with the correct pieces under the recall.

It is noisy indeed, so an appointment with dealer is on its way...

Still puzzled how a broken muffler bearing could cause heating damage to rear break line. This is located almost on the other side of the engine.
It also gets vented by the driving wind...

OK, my English is improving by this post. The 'manifold' is how the short curved exhaust tube at the engine is named. The 'flange' is actually what I called the collar

Following picture is a good 'exploded view' example how things should be.
Reading the Piaggio instructions I understand that the so called 'Flange' is to deflect hot exhaust gasses in case there is a leak.

IMHO a full recall should fix this:
- New manifold with an exhaust deflection collar
- New clamp (that is most likely more stable)
- New gasket (as to be replaced at every exhaust dismount)

So far in my case it looks like I got a new clamp and and a new gasket. But not the new collared manifold (#872659)

Does not sound too dramatic, anyway, I am going for the DIY job to remove my already rusty exhaust, brush it clean and respray with Heat-Resistant MOTIP paint.
Put in the new gasket and voila