Modern Vespa

So, after paying for two rounds of repairs on my scooter to fix problems with the exhaust that popped up after installing the Moto Amore bronze bushing, I decided to check out federal warranty law, just to...well, just to see. Here's a link to the FTC's site:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm#understanding

According to the "Tie-Ins" section of that web page, warrantors are explicitly forbidden from requiring their consumers to use a certain brand of product or part in order to maintain the warranty's validity. Since the GTS warranty will become void if the "functioning, construction, or aesthetics" of the scooter are modified--implicitly stating that only the parts that came with the scoter (i.e., OEM Vespa parts) can be used--how is Piaggio not in violation of federal law?

The idea is that after-market rather than OEM oil filters etc are fine, and the warranty should remain intact. Put an aftermarket 'performance' cylinder head or whatever on and then see if 'federal law' covers you should some engine/transmission part break as a result.

That makes sense, but I suppose what I was hinting at was that, given the evidence at hand--a lack of empirical against the bushing and a handful of anecdotal in its favor--there doesn't appear to be a good reason why installing something like a third-party exhaust collar should void the warranty. Right? I mean, think about it--you've got your theories about heat expansion and stud breakage, which actually do make sense, but there are still people who have experienced sheared studs on completely stock bikes that have only been touched by certified mechanics. Just from that evidence alone, broken studs seem to be a problem with the design of the exhaust itself, not with the material composition of the collar.

By the way, why the quotes around "federal law"? It's not like I'm making it up--that's just the way it is. Should I have called it something different?

All I can offer is my experience - over 150,000 miles on Piaggio bikes with stock exhausts - never one sheared stud on the move[1] - or unravelling nut.

[1] While replacing a broken downpipe[2] on my X9 250 Evo the mechanic had a stud shear. Took four locksmith's drills to get that bugger out! All under warranty thank goodness. They were not the supplying dealer, otherwise the nuts would have had some anti-seize on them.

[2] Apparently a faulty (but thankfully small) batch. Interesting ride home from France into the UK with eff-all exhaust system!

The terms of Piaggio's warranty, despite what Piaggio might think, are subject to the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act in the US. It states, among other things, that a manufacturer may not void a warranty because of the installation of aftermarket parts unless they can show that doing so directly contributed to the failure.

Because that law is not world-wide. It applies where it applies.

Right, right. Sorry--I didn't meant to seem U.S.-centric.

So...do you think I should be a little more insistent in having the work paid for under warranty? My dealer said he wouldn't submit the claim, and this last repair cost me like $700 in labor.

I would say yes, definitely. They should be ashamed for not pushing it with Piaggio themselves, or even covering it themselves. Customer satisfaction is about the only way to stay in business - and if they haven't enough clout with Piaggio then they should try building some by having a huge, well-satisfied customer base.

I'm hugely in favour of any no-fault (by the customer) upsets being dealt with under warranty. If the customer contributed in any way - up to the dealer to make a judgement...

The law is different in the EU. The minimum manufacturer warranty term is two years - but the responsibility for sorting it remains with the vendor. In fact it can extend to six years if the failure can be proved to have been an original manufacturing fault.

Perhaps that's why we get steering bearings done under warranty here on MP3s while US folk have problems...

If we're talking about the broken exhaust studs, then I would say that it's virtually certain that the incorrect installation of the brass bushing was, in fact, responsible for the failure. That said, the fault there is shared by the dealer and the fact that the brass bushing can be tricky to install correctly. Failure to get the brass bushing seated all the way into the exhaust pipe will almost certainly cause a broken exhaust stud.

Piaggio won't pay it, and they have a legitimate reason for not doing so.

Your dealer... now that's a different question. To a large degree, it's difficult to fault them because they're dealing with a persnickity part. Still, any mechanic worth his salt would know that if you bolt the exhaust up and there's any tension anywhere in the system, it's going to break.

Well, I'm not sure that the bushing was installed incorrectly. I used anti-seize, seated the bushing all the way onto the header pipe (which I removed from the scooter and held down with a vise), and made sure the exhaust fit completely back into place before bolting everything up.

Also, saying that the part is "persnickety" or that studs have broken on other bikes with it installed does not prove that it caused the failures. At this point, I am more inclined to think there was something inherently wrong with the exhaust setup from the get-go, especially after having two of the swing arm bolts disappear last week.

Given the evidence, it would seem that I have a legitimate case for asking for a replacement under the Act. What do you guys think?

I think that only an attorney, licensed before the bar in the state where the warranty cliam would be entertained, can properly answer your question.

That said, since you installed the bushing yourself, I would be willing to bet that opens a whole new can of worms. You would most likely be required to prove your handiwork was NOT the cause of the problem.

Al

You're probably right--I'm sure the self-installation would cause me lots of problems during an actual legal proceeding. But hey, the warranty says anyone can work on the bike, right, as long as they do the installation properly? To me, that sounds like the burden of proof in both cases (the bushing and the installation) is on Piaggio, especially since a dealer did see the part and adjust the exhaust between the two stud breakages.

I believe you need to be a "Certified Vespa / Piaggio Service Center"

Nope! Here's a quote from the GTS warranty manual: "While necessary maintenance and repairs on your motorscooter may be performed by other parties, we recommend that you use a Piaggio Dealer or an Authorized Piaggio Service Center (as appropriate)."

edit: Not trying to be argumentative--just pointing out the facts.

That's what I meant - English hard for me

The dealers here kinda insist that you take the scooter to the place you bought it for warranty work - I don't know why.

No worries, buddy. At this point, I'm just glad to have people chiming in. It's been a rough road with this bike--as much as I love it--and the support of the forum has been a big help so far.

One point to get over - the warranty laws are hugely different in different markets. In the EU Piaggio can insist that bikes are serviced by certified dealers - because part of each and every service should have a diagnostic check - and only certified dealers can have bought such a device. However in the EU warranty laws also provide for a minimum of two (or in some some circumstances) six years of warranty. As I understand it, in the US this is completely different, and can be varied State by State, unless over-ruled by Federal laws.

In BVI (Trafficjammer posts passim) the situation may be more driven by what is practical rather than any legality.

Here in the UK it is much more important to be a 'friendly customer' that the dealer wants to have as a repeat customer - rather than a stroppy b'stard that he'd rather never darken his door again.

Friendly attitude and friendly persistence is the key - I'm sure a little bit of charm goes a long way - or so I'm told. My school of charm and diplomacy won't earn you many Brownie points.

I am a little amused by the advice on US law from the UK and De.

Jess has it right. Keep in mind that what that does is put the burden of proof on you to demonstrate that whatever you or the non-standard parts did was in no way responsible for the failure. That is a steep hill to climb. I would play to their better nature and rely on their good will, unless you have already burned that bridge. Then there is always the "regional rep", whatever that is.

No bridges burned, as far as I know. The dealer has been really helpful with all of the repairs, and I've tried my best to let him (and the mechanic) know how much I appreciate it.