Modern Vespa

Hello mp 3 community- My wife and I are about to purchase our first scooter. This will be our main source of commuting. It is our hopes to ride (weather permitting) all year round in NYC-through all the rain and (little) snow. And so....STABILITY is a key word for us. The MP 3 looks more stable than a usual two wheeled scooter- Is this true. Do any users out there find that the MP 3 handles rough (er) weather conditions than other reg. scooters? Thanks- LEE.

Yes it is more stable and multiple posts here confirm it such as ones on minimal handling problems with a tire blowout at speed.

At the same time understand that it is still a bike that leans. It will turn over. You must have balance to ride it and it is heavy.

Most here will agree that you will not find a more fun bike to ride.

It sure is 'Weather Permitting.' I ride my MP3 250 at 90kmh on a dry and wet day with same stability.

If a scooter will be your only mode of transportation then you can't go wrong with the MP3. You are wise to recognize its benefits.

Now that thats settled, which one are you going to get? And what color? And what mods?...............SOON you will dream in threes.

Mike

Welcome legman,

+1 on what the folks have already posted. To give you an idea of the stability of the MP3s, click on this link and watch the video.

This guys has some MAD skills, but I doubt seriously that he could do that on a conventional scooter or motorcycle.

Wow Ed....that guy is crazy! He "almost" got hit by that car as he came out of lot whilst he was Showing Off! Stop Power???? FABULOUS! SPOT ON!

absolutely...+1...

I've ridden in a torrential downpower and my 250 Willow Rouge gripped the road. I am a not a daredevil...ordinarily...I would have been disturbed by my predicament, but with the 3 wheels gripping the road I was quite calm and amazed. If you have a choice...Well....I think you have made your choice and we're just verifying what you already suspect...This machine is fracking unbelieveable...cheers, jacq

i have been riding my MP3 400 for about a year now. while the 2 front wheels definitely provide more stability, they also hinder your swirling motion as when riding through sets of cones so the scoot will not turn as quickly as having only one front wheel.

thanks for the tips guys-i do believe the choice here is the mp 3! -Lee

It is not as nimble as a smaller scoot with two wheels, but I think that is a function of the longer wheel base much more so than a function of having two up front.

Mike

Gotta agree with previous posts here, legman. You'd be hard pressed to find a better scooter for stability and security in riding, but bear in mind its a heavy rascal and as such might not be as nimble in city traffic as a traditional scoot might be (this I think is more than offset by its ability to park 'like a shopping cart'). Also, it is relatively expensive in upfront and maintenance costs (more moving / critical parts) so if its your only transport means that's likely to be a consideration as well. Other than that, to quote the above, "This machine is fracking unbelievable." I adore Loretta!

Hey jacq... when did the rogue become red (rouge)??

I second this notion. During my BRC I thought it slalomed very well and with extraordinary stability & lean angles. It's not flickable like a 50cc scoot, but I think that's length- & mass-related, not a direct function of the number of wheels.

I think Bravo-2-4 hit it exactly. At speed, it is a wonder, although for sudden manuvers you MUST deliberately countersteer, none of this subconscience habit-from-riding-a-bicycle stuff. If you don't know what countersteering is, or much worse if you are one of those countersteering deny-ers who run on for paragraphs about how there's no such thing and all your life you've turned just by leaning, then the MP3 is pretty much a deathtrap. (I never heard of countersteering, having driven nothing larger than a 350 weighing 200 lbs, and then I found out about it real fast on my maiden voyage on a 500lb cruiser - very nearly the last lesson I ever learned). But if you know how to countersteer, or are willing to spend half an hour in a parking lot learning how to master it, it is suprisely nimble and unbelievably sure-footed. Things that used to terrify me - wet leaves, manhole covers, potholes in the middle of tight turns - I don't even notice anymore.

But...

...the MP3, at least the /500, is an absolute dog at very slow speed (<10mph and especially <6mph). There are some great tips in this forum addressing this, like keeping power on and using the rear brake like a clutch, that help tremendously, but it is terribly front-heavy and until the wheels start spinning fast enough to generate appreciable centripetal force, it wants to fall over in the direction of the turn. I've been riding all my life, and I'm coming up on 2,000 miles on the /500 and I'm still mastering it. Mind you, in "ordinary" situations it's no big deal. It's those unusual situations where it suddenly becomes a nail-biter: making a 150 degree left turn at a stop sign in front of oncoming traffic, or (my personal terror) a hairpin right turn from a stop sign at the bottom of one steeply crowned hill turning onto another hill, downhill all the way so there's a constant accelerative force to contend with. I'm not saying it can't be done (I'm still in the stop short and slowly waddle to the turn phase) but it isn't as easy as a cruiser or an 80cc scooter. If they could switch to Titanium or otherwise lose 100lb from the front it would do wonders.

Eloquently and succinctly put!

I got to disagree on you with this. If you are going in a straight line (ie rush hour traffic) it is incredibly easy to keep the MP3 upright at walking speeds. If you are talking about cornering at those speeds, I suspect it just different from a 2 wheeler and your previous experience is hindering you. I don't have that problem. After plenty of parking lot practice I mastered the slow stuff and now I don't think twice about it. I would love it though if it was 100lbs lighter

I suspect the make-up of the rider plays a significant roll in handling that can be compensated for by practice and familiarity.
I don't expirience any difficult slow speed handling characteristics personally.

Mike

Actually, the MP3 can handle the cone weave quite capably and with great ease when you know how to do it. Check out this video, and this one. At about the 1:50 point, you will see an MP3, not only doing the cone weave, but doing it IN THE RAIN!!. There is a better video showing a longer sequence of the weave, but I wasn't able to find it.

Welcome to the forum and keep us posted concerning your purchase, no matter what you finally decide on.

Alba, you didn't read the next sentence:

> in "ordinary" situations it's no big deal. It's those unusual situations where it suddenly becomes a nail-biter

Just common sense says that when your motorcycle is pitched forward 20 degrees and leaning right 10 degrees at a stop sign at the bottom of a hill crowned into another hill, all that extra weight extending forward and right of the forward-most and right-most axle is going to make it want to fall in that direction. A 2-wheeler has all of its weight between the front and rear wheels, an MP3 has a fair amount of mass above the front wheels, and depending on the angle the trike is sitting at, sometimes not entirely between the front wheels. Add to the force of gravity the deceleration as one is coming to a stop, which loads the front wheels anyway, and as I transition from 10 to below 6mph and my gyroscopic stablization vanishes, it can be very tricky indeed. If I kept the trike "vertical" relative to the ground it would instantly fall over; so I have to hold it "true vertical" relative to gravity. That means the trike is leaning left relative to the ground, and my right foot is dangling up in the air. I deal with this hill every day and speak from experience. So I must disagree with you in the strongest possible terms - it is in fact incredibly DIFFICULT to keep the MP3 upright at walking speeds - at oddball angles that you won't find in a parking lot!

I would add that turning UP that hill coing back is not nearly as bad, at least since I picked up Jim's excellent tip about riding the rear brake to keep torque flowing.

That sounds like quite a corner. Don't think I've tackled anything as tricky as that.

I agree mostly with your excellently thought-out post, rjeffb. As noted in other posts above, the MP3 (in my experience - 4000 miles combined on a 250 and 400) is quite easy to manage at slow speeds on level ground. I can see how your particular experience would be different, however. Also, it's a heavy beast and takes some getting used to.

Not to put too pedantic a point on it, but it's centrifugal ("fleeing the center") force that provides gyroscopic stability. The centripetal force is supplied by the wheel spokes. I think that the doubling of this with two front wheels is responsible for the solid feel of this bike at speed.

And absolutely, positively, +1 on countersteering. One of the best explanations of this (if not the best) is in Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough. I highly recommend this book. In fact, I would consider it a mandatory read.

The J Costa transforms the slow speed behaviour. No more grundling rollers and jerky clutch bite. Mine is smooth as silk right down to half walking pace.

The MP3 is the most stable bike I've ever ridden in my 52 years of riding two wheelers, and I've ridden everything from Sport Bikes to Cruisers to Touring Bikes.

In fairness, I should offset what some may feel was an unfair assessment of MP3 handling at slow speed with an explanation of exactly why I bought one. I live at the bottom of a fairly steep hill, terminating in a cliff (this is a different hill than mentioned previously, although both must be passed to get down to the main road.) I dumped my Shadow - with my girlfriend's mother on the back! - at <3mph because the front wheel ran up over a pine cone. Going downhill at a crawl, feet are on the ground walking past the five foot gap between my garden wall and my truck, so there's no rear brake, the front brake is the only thing keeping me from launching right off the cliff. The instant that wheel rode up over the pine cone the wheel instantly locked and started to slide with the pine cone preventing rubber contact. You know what happens when the front wheel of a motorcycle stops turning, right?

The moment I first saw an MP3 a light went off in my head. Like any scooter, a rear handbrake means I can apply rear brake - the one that doesn't make me fall over - regardless of where my feet are, and two wheels in front means that even if one loses contact with the road I still have another. I now ride all the way down the hill right to my house, dragging mostly on the rear brake and with a light touch on the front, ready to release the front brake confident that I still have a rear brake slowing me down and a second front wheel to keep me heading where I want to go. That's a safety and confidence margin no other motorcycle can provide.

I have no doubt that 20 years from now (after patent expiration) this technology will permeate motorcycling. Whether Piaggio liberaly licenses the technology or they themselves start applying it to more conventional motorcycles in the meantime remains to be seen, but I can imagine three-wheel sports bikes and perhaps even cruisers using advanced materials to keep the mass down. Piaggio has a breakthrough concept that could extend far beyond scooters. A three-wheeled Sportster?

Absolutely.

In the rain, the MP3 is tough to beat. I have a TMax 500 now, and had a MP3 400 previously. The TMax provides a little more agility in some situations, as it is lighter and more CC's than the 400, but in the rain or rough/bumpy roads, the MP3 is the winner. The lower seating position is better as well. They are both great bikes. I would love to see a larger MP3- 800cc would do it- and hybrid technology added for no fuel lower speeds and extra power when you need it. Just my opinion...

Oh...oops...I do that all the time....just my naughty fingers....Ya know if I ever get a red one...I'm calling it the Rouge Rogue....That ought to do....Of course, if anyone thinks of their baby as this ... be my guest.....There just has to be a a Rouge Rogue out there somewhere.......
cheers....jacquie

rjeffb wrote Poignantly relative story...Keen and intuitive hypothesis about the future of cycle development.

This one of the best post replies I've read....Well done, sir.

Thanks for sharing....jacq

Heck yeah!!! On the road, and off the road. In sand, dirt, mud, gravel, rain, snow, sleet, ice, hailstorms, tornadoes, hurricanes,..., etc. Oh, yeah, on both the right, and the left side of the road, too.

Just go ride one yourself and quit being a cynic!

*MP3 reviews

Thank-you Jacq, most kind. Two future conversations:

Salesman: And this is the KZ-3/800, Kawasaki's new three-wheel entry with a 788cc alcohol engine.
Customer: What!? It's bad enough nobody sell gasoline engines anymore, why would I want to drive some sissy three wheeler?
Salesman: Well for starters, because since it was introduced six months ago, it's won 47 out 49 major U.S. and international speedbike tournaments...

Salesman: And this is the new Sportster Trio Hybrid. It runs on biodiesel made from hog fat, and in electric mode, it has four 600 watt speakers playing engine sounds from a 1952 Hardtail.
Customer: What!? It's bad enough that Harleys use electric motors and fake engine noise...why would I be caught dead on a sissy three wheeler?
Salesman (mounting trike and hitting start button): Well, let me show you...

Notice in the first video on his real slow speed turns (about 2 min in) where his butt is on the seat.