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for something that hasn't killed hardly anybody, there sure are gearing up for something weird this fall.

:tnifoilhatconspiracytheory:
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it's political correctness gone mad I say!

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it is weird though.

i saw a story on cnn about how the swine flu czar is considering having the military do forced vaccinations. huh?
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Distraction at work.
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rotorhead70 wrote:
Distraction at work.
It may be a distraction at work but they just informed me that someone in my office has just been confirmed as having the flu.

Welcome to Friday!
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Chad:

That is in sharp contrast with the following from CNN's web site:

In the event of a major outbreak, civilian authorities would lead any relief efforts, the official said. The military, as it would for a natural disaster or other significant emergency situation, could provide support and fulfill any tasks that civilian authorities could not, such as air transport or testing of large numbers of viral samples from infected patients.

Guess you will just have to wait and see.

Al
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If you don't know history, let those who do plan.

In 1917 a new strain of type A influenza was reported. There were few deaths.

That winter it returned, but much more virulent. Between winter 1917 and 1919 twenty million Americans were infected. Eighty-five thousand died.

Worldwide I believe there were 3 million deaths.

It is prudent to prepare. This whole thing may pass (as the bird flu thing did). But there is a possibility of a major pandemic.

Using the military (or national guard) as a delivery system may be the best way to mobilize.

Again, if it passes, no harm. If it gets bad, it could get really bad. It is good to have vaccine and plans ready.

PS--there have been about 10,000 infected, about 100 deaths worldwide. Not bad, but more than nobody. It would suck if it was you (or me).

P.
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Aviator47 wrote:
Chad:

That is in sharp contrast with the following from CNN's web site:

In the event of a major outbreak, civilian authorities would lead any relief efforts, the official said. The military, as it would for a natural disaster or other significant emergency situation, could provide support and fulfill any tasks that civilian authorities could not, such as air transport or testing of large numbers of viral samples from infected patients.

Guess you will just have to wait and see.

Al
hey al, checked my source for that story again after you posted this: fox news Laughing emoticon i guess i will have to defer to what you said after double checking my source.

you were in the military, right? isn't there some law forbidding the military to act as a military on u.s. soil anyway?
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take it seriously we have 9 confirmed dead and 20 other deaths under investigation population of 4 milllion. It is said that it can possibly affect up to 80% of our population, your flu season hasn't started yet and ours is not over. It is also thought that it can mutate and grow in strength. A few miscarriages have also occured due to it, numbers unknown. Quite of few schools were closed, many ended up in intensive care not sure of the numbers, most survive but it is coming to your town.
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Chad-

Actually, FOX posted the exact same verbiage on their web site.

Several web sites that specialize in conspiracy theory, however, have blown this up into "forced quarantine and involuntary inoculations". One site even claims that an Army brigade that has "just returned from five years in Iraq" has been transferred to Northern Command for this very mission. Of course no brigade has "just spent five years in Iraq", and assignment to Northern Command is quite normal for Stateside units. Lastly, if all Northern Command has is one brigade to force you to be inoculated, it's going to take several years for those 2,500 or so folks to get to everybody.

Yes, in overly simple terms, the Posse Comitatus Act prevents using the federal military for law enforcement on US civilian soil. We can do disaster relief, and the like, but nothing police like.

Had first hand experience with the law in 1980 during the Cuban Refugee Program at Ft Chaffee, Ark. If a refugee got off the base, there was nothing the military could do but let civilian law enforcement go after him. In fact, it was not really allowable for us to use our searchlight equipped helicopter to help the locals chase an escaped refugee outside the base at night, as that was law enforcement. Had it been rescuing people after a tornado, we could have lit up the whole county.

Al
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Those old flu epidemics did give us one thing: a partial understanding of Parkinson's disease and drug therapy for the symptoms, interestingly enough Nerd emoticon
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Aviator47 wrote:
Chad-

Actually, FOX posted the exact same verbiage on their web site.

Several web sites that specialize in conspiracy theory, however, have blown this up into "forced quarantine and involuntary inoculations". One site even claims that an Army brigade that has "just returned from five years in Iraq" has been transferred to Northern Command for this very mission. Of course no brigade has "just spent five years in Iraq", and assignment to Northern Command is quite normal for Stateside units. Lastly, if all Northern Command has is one brigade to force you to be inoculated, it's going to take several years for those 2,500 or so folks to get to everybody.

Yes, in overly simple terms, the Posse Comitatus Act prevents using the federal military for law enforcement on US civilian soil. We can do disaster relief, and the like, but nothing police like.

Had first hand experience with the law in 1980 during the Cuban Refugee Program at Ft Chaffee, Ark. If a refugee got off the base, there was nothing the military could do but let civilian law enforcement go after him. In fact, it was not really allowable for us to use our searchlight equipped helicopter to help the locals chase an escaped refugee outside the base at night, as that was law enforcement. Had it been rescuing people after a tornado, we could have lit up the whole county.

Al
here's the fox news piece everyone has been talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuSMWzmheGE

it sounds like total fear mongering to me. i find it fascinating that they are freaking out over a flu that has killed almost nobody statistically speaking.

i think when the say NORTHCOM it sounds all scary.
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I think planning for something bad is a very good and prudent idea. The very unusual thing about the current H1N1 influenza is that it is hitting during the usual low season for influenza and that it seems to be hitting those who are healthy harder than a usual influenza. Given those current characteristics and what history tells us, I think they are smart to be really revving up the prevention message and getting work on the vaccination done. The Spanish flu started as a mild influenza during the spring summer only to return during the following winter, the usual flu season, as a much more virulent form killing millions of people. There is great potential that this current H1N1 will mutate such that it will be even more virulent than it currently is. That is a characteristic of influenza, it mutates and typically when it mutates, the prevalent strain is far more dangerous and transmissible than the original strain, ie much more serious disease is the outcome. Hopefully we are over reacting, but I can tell you, I would far prefer that we over react than under react from my vantage point as a Physician.
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Thanks, Benito

Fortunately, those two talking skulls on the Fox video will not be handling any policy decisions for the H1N1 response. Their job is to stir up and reinforce ignorance, and they seem to be working hard at it!

Al
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Can I say here that I can't stand Fox News and thus I didn't watch that link that was posted. Yes there is some fear mongering going on, but there is some good scientific reason for concern that is all I'm saying.
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I wonder why you don't hear about it in the news when somebody dies from a flu strain other than H1N1? It seems as if the other strains aren't important or is it just because H1N1 is the current news topic?
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Benito wrote:
Can I say here that I can't stand Fox News and thus I didn't watch that link that was posted. Yes there is some fear mongering going on, but there is some good scientific reason for concern that is all I'm saying.
Not worth watching, so my estimate of you has gone up another two notches. Was vacuous drivel. In short, one bozo simply said, "I can only assume" the military was going to do bad stuff, while Fox's printed coverage gave the accurate potential mission for the military: logistical support to FEMA. Of course, the printed coverage was taken directly from the Associated Press.

One of the joys of living here is that Fox is not available. I wouldn't even want it polluting my satellite dish, even though it would not be watched.

I find your advice much more realistic and trustworthy. Again, thanks.

Al
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Paul G. wrote:
If you don't know history, let those who do plan.

In 1917 a new strain of type A influenza was reported. There were few deaths.

That winter it returned, but much more virulent. Between winter 1917 and 1919 twenty million Americans were infected. Eighty-five thousand died.

Worldwide I believe there were 3 million deaths.

It is prudent to prepare. This whole thing may pass (as the bird flu thing did). But there is a possibility of a major pandemic.

Using the military (or national guard) as a delivery system may be the best way to mobilize.

Again, if it passes, no harm. If it gets bad, it could get really bad. It is good to have vaccine and plans ready.

PS--there have been about 10,000 infected, about 100 deaths worldwide. Not bad, but more than nobody. It would suck if it was you (or me).

P.
Good summary...I work in healthcare...a mutated strain with high morbidity rate could become a reality...hence the focus on vacinations...however IMHO this is not answer...it could mutate further. Per Paul G. the reason WWI came to an end was not due to the Allies winning...it was the devastation in the trenches due to the 1918 Pandemic...this should be high on on everyone's radar. In our home we have put together an Emergency / Pandemic prepardness plan which includes a long list of things to have.
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You're right, it will likely mutate further, but hopefully the vaccine they are developing with have enough cross immunity to be at least still somewhat effective. Even if it doesn't fully prevent infection, it might still be able to make the illness less severe. That would be a good thing.
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Scooter Bug wrote:
I wonder why you don't hear about it in the news when somebody dies from a flu strain other than H1N1? It seems as if the other strains aren't important or is it just because H1N1 is the current news topic?
Other influenza strains are quite now, the prevalent strain currently is the H1N1 and not what was prevalent this winter.
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I hear people are trying to infect themselves with it to become immune to it,
Smart and stupid at the same time, Might make them immune but kill others that aren't.

Real smart.

Maybe they should call it the Dino Virus.
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Big Foot wrote:
I hear people are trying to infect themselves with it to become immune to it,
Smart and stupid at the same time, Might make them immune but kill others that aren't.
Yes, you are likely better to get it now before it mutates into something worse. Hopefully it doesn't mutate into something resistant to the immunizations before the northern winter.

But the whole population is better off if less people get it as then the mutation is slower.

Generally people dying at the moment have other health issues.
We have had one locally so far.
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This one is a nasty one that is and can be much more dangerous than other types. It affects the lungs in a way that other strains don't. If it gets in your lungs and it causes what is called a cytokine storm your dead. We don't know how to turn "off" the storm. That's why it's killing young people who would normally not be so sick withe a normal flu.Better to err on the side of caution.
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The other worry of course is that there is now a drug resistant strain. At the onset it appeared that this H1N1 influenza virus was fully sensitive to Tamiflu, however, again through mutation, there is a strains(s) that is resistant to Tamiflu out there. Not good news.
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Benito wrote:
The other worry of course is that there is now a drug resistant strain. At the onset it appeared that this H1N1 influenza virus was fully sensitive to Tamiflu, however, again through mutation, there is a strains(s) that is resistant to Tamiflu out there. Not good news.
Hey, a subject I actually know something about (sort of). While the Tamiflu issue is worrisome - the good news is that it responds to vaccines. emergency clinical trials (in humans) are on their way right now for the H1N1 virus. The government is pulling out all of the stops trying to get this one out FAST. There is no difference in the vaccine from a technical point of view (how it is made) than the seasonal flu shot. The only change is what strain (H1N1 in this case) they inoculate the growth medium with*. The good news is that the FDA is not going to force the manufacturers to go through the mountain of paperwork for a "new" drug. This is a flu vaccine plain and simple.

You are right that it is not a super scary dangerous virus... yet. The worry is that it is a new one and none of us have resistance to it. It has DNA in it from both pigs and birds and looks like it *could* be troublesome one if it mutates. The idea is not vaccinate NOW and build up the so called "herd immunity" and slow the spread and its chances to mutate.

* if you've never seen how most vaccines are made, you might not want to have eggs for breakfast before you find out. ugh.

Disclaimer: I'm not an immunologist - but I did stay at a Holiday in Express last night.
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Totally agree, now the one problem I have read about in the journals is that the amount of vaccine they are able to produce with their current production methods has been disappointing The available vaccines will be slower to ramp up than is ideal. But you're right, even with Tamiflu resistant virus, the vaccination should still work. Hopefully the efficacy of the vaccination will be sufficient to not only make the disease milder, but fully prevent infection, that of course would be most ideal, otherwise there would be less herd immunity.
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UTC quote
Paul G. wrote:
If you don't know history, let those who do plan.

In 1917 a new strain of type A influenza was reported. There were few deaths.

That winter it returned, but much more virulent. Between winter 1917 and 1919 twenty million Americans were infected. Eighty-five thousand died.

Worldwide I believe there were 3 million deaths.
I guess you're talking about the Spanish Flu. The worldwide figure should be around 50 million (17 million died in India alone). To put that into perspective the total loses from WWI were around 14 million. That's not to say that Swine flu will be as bad but it's certainly worth keeping an eye on.

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