Modern Vespa

I've been reading through these post for several weeks and have a few very, very basic questions. I hear the term Dr. Pulley HiT Clutch, J Costa, and Dr. Pulley Sliding Roller Weights. What are these things? How do they work? Are they expensive? Easy to install or have dealer do so? Would the installation of any or all compromise warranty? If a person was install all of them, is there a sequence of installation; such as Sliding Roller Weights before J Costa or if you are doing the J Costa you might as well do Dr. Pulley Hit Clutch at the same time. If someone has the time, knowledge and patience to share I would so appreciate it. Thanks.

Hey vandave,

Nothing wrong with some basic questions. I'll TRY and help, though maybe someone more mechanical than myself will chime in. Here's some basics:

The scoot runs by using a variator(which is like a transmission of sorts) and a clutch(just like on a car). The variator is part of a CVT or in other words a transmission that doesn't have 'gears' of sorts. It basically is like a large cone shape with a belt tied around it. You spin the cone faster and the belt moves up, slow down and the belt goes down. This is why on the scoot it's mostly a seemless transition from fast to slow and vice versa. The variator accomplishes this by using weights to 'balance' itself and keep the tension on the belt.

Hope that wasn't too techy. So given all that, the stock variator has been known to have some sputtering upon take off and slow down. This is normal after many miles of wear because the weights wear down from all that movement and they get ridges that cause the takeoff to be not as smooth.

So anytime there's a chance for performance improvements, aftermarket manufacturers are sure to move in. Here's a rundown of the ones you listed along with just some general notes that have been passed around:

Dr. Pulley Sliding weights- replacement weights for the variator that work in a slightly different manner to keep things like takeoff running smooth

JCosta- a manufacturer of a complete new variator for the bike along with its own set of weights. This replaces the whole variator and thus is more expensive than just replacing weights, though some say it gives more performance for takeoff and overall. There's been many back and forths of a whole new variator vs. changing weights. The "general" consensus is that new weights give about 80%of the improvement of a new variator, but at roughly 8-10times less $$.

HiT clutch: Replaces the clutch. For some, improvement can be further enhanced by not only changing variator options, but replacing the other end of the assembly, the clutch. While the variator keeps the weights on the belt and everything running "smooth", the clutch is the actual piece that ensures that power from the engine arrives fashionably, both in amount and distribution.

There's other things people can fiddle with, such as variator springs, drive springs, etc. but this is the basics.

As for warranties, this can be put simply: Check with your service tech/dealer first if you're worried about your warranty. Some say no, some say yes, some say only the part replaced is no longer covered. If you REALLY REALLY want a part changed, find a dealer that will do it and not void your warranty. They're out there...you may have to haul your bike cross states for a day and bring it home, but you CAN find one that will install these parts and promise to keep giving you warranty work. For many of us(including myself), by the time you get to this point where you're spending oodles of $$ on extra goodies, the warranty is really not the piece of heaven it used to be;you figure you'll just be replacing/fixing any broken parts yourself or with your trusted service guy anyways.

You know it's funny, I've got my speakers turned up as loud as they will go and I can't hear those terms. I can read 'em just fine, but there's not a peep to be heard.

Variator and clutch shown on a scooter:



The rollers/sliding rollers and J.Costa Variator are located on the inboard (engine side) behind the finned portion of the variator.

Roller weights shown in a variator:



Dr. Pulley Sliders (used in place of standard rollers:



Dr. Pulley HiT Clutch:



Vespa clutch:



J.Costa Variator:





Dave

I wouldn't have had the JCosta fitted if it wasn't by a mechanic I know is good and trustworthy and a Piaggio expert in a Piaggio dealership.

Some dealerships will refuse to do warranty work even if your modification is nothing to do with the bit you want fixing.

Check with your dealership first I guess.

I really did not know what was going on, then I saw this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-QqHE0bNjw

a little library of similar vids could be useful.

Fay

Be aware that the Dr. Pulley sliders and the J Costa variator are mutually exclusive. You can do one or the other, but not both.

As for a sequence of installing, it's really up to you. Everything you listed will give some sort of performance increase. What you need to decide is the cost/performance ratio that you are willing to live with.

For example, I would like to go to a J Costa and HiT clutch, but really can't justify the cost right now, so I decided to go with a set of Dr. Pulley sliders (and a new outer pulley, but that's a whole different thread ).
My next upgrade will most likely be the clutch.

If you're handy with tools (and have the right tools ) the installation of any of the things listed isn't too difficult. You just need to be (more) careful (than I was).

If you don't feel comfortable making the changes yourself, just wait until a scheduled service and have your shop put them in for you.

-nub

From what I've read (and not from first-hand experience note) the HIT clutch will be just great for racing etc, when you almost never want to do slow manouvers. However on the road and certainly in urban situations you often have to have the clutch just on the bite point - and this is where the HIT clutch is an unknown - so far.

Sooooooooo what about a reference library of video clips, how to reline brakes, what a variator does, all that time a saw Dafs around with a variomatic transmission, one little vid and I'dve known what was going on!

Fay

Links have been posted many times in the General Discussion area, and I'm pretty sure the videos have been referred to in the Wiki.

To knowledgeable peeps like you Jim, tracking them down, when you need to is not that hard, you speak the language and have a wide vocabulary. To people like Vandave it is a little harder, they need an entry level introduction.

I wondered if they could be assembled into a sort of idiots guide; This is how a variator works, this is how you change your brake pads, this is how you fix a puncture, to help the more mechanicaly challenged reach a new understanding, a sort of video Haynes guide.

Fondest
Fay

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have either of you explored the Wiki on this very site?

Thanks Jim, no I hadn't, and now I have.

I spent a jolly half hour meandering round the 'wiki'. It was very lovely but it might be seen as a little daunting to the mechanically challenged and to me at least a little difficult to find things. Maybe I am missing something.

Until I stumbled across the J.Costa Video for instance, I did not know it existed, so would not know to look for it. Entering Brake reline gave me 4580 entries.

maybe there is an opportunity here for someone to assemble the info and maybe even sell the compilation a bit like an online Haynes manual.

fondest
Fay

I thought a wiki was a small animal like person in Star Wars. Actually I did go to the wiki sight and found a lot of information but I was trying to also get some fed back from the users and prioritize my purchases. As a retired GM engineer I can get around a little on mechanical things...not much good at the electrical stuff and, at 63, don't have any desire to "lay it down" around the corner. The advice and feed back on this site is great. Sometimes, auto engineering lingo and scooter engineering lingo don't quite match.

The picture is marked not to put the slider cover back on? Was this just for Dr. Pulley slider installs, or just leave it off statement? And what size sliders for mp3 500?