Modern Vespa

so i bought my gts exactly a year ago brand new and one would expect a certain quality from a new product. well i no longer have those expectations to say the least. i'd love to tell you the problem but it seems even the "experts" cannot pinpoint the problem. the bike is now at the shop again for the 4th time, this is after 2 new voltage regulators, 1 new wiring harness, a new stator plate, a new fuel injector, a new display (wouldn't work after they got a hold of it), and 3 new batteries. there may be some other things i'm missing but it's a bit hard to keep up at this point. the bike does the same thing everytime, i ride it for a couple of days and then it won't start because of not enough juice in the battery. i was told they changed everything in the path of the system that charges the battery and it's a big mystery now. the third time i took it in i called piaggio in new york and they in turn called the dealer and suggested they change the fuel injector. it of course failed two weeks later (with 3 days of riding). i've researched the texas lemon law and i'm way past the "30 day rule" so i'm getting ready to get that ball rolling. it seems pretty obvious to me. the piaggio rep called me today and wanted to ask me some questions and wanted one last chance to fix the bike. his opinion is that the previous mechanics made some mistakes (very reassuring at 70 mph). i was told by the manager of the local vespa midway through the process that i would have to "basically sue piaggio" if i wanted them to take the bike back. at that point i called the new york office and was told that was ridiculous. not sure who to trust at this point so i'm going with no one. well, all i know is my "new" bike which now is up to 3000 miles has been taken apart at least 4 times and i'm getting tired of pushing it. i'm sure every time it was put back together it was done with the utmost care (sarcasm here) and it's as good as new. i've been reassured more than once but i can't say i'm too hopeful at this point. i'm not trying to get anything i didn't pay for i just want what is right. i understand that things happen and a lemon or two will make it out to the world and i've been really really nice about this whole situation. but i also understand that i've got a very expensive scooter that looks more and more like a lemon everyday. i've been a big supporter of my local dealer accounting for at least 4 250 sales this year (2 mine, 2 friends who bought because of me). i've read a number of different vespa experiences on this board and i just wanted to share mine. i'll let you know how it turns out. i'm giving alamo heights vespa and piaggio a last benefit of the doubt........hopefully they'll do what's right.........i'd make a great lifetime customer!!

You say Texas has the lemon law (like CA). I'd use it.
Piaggio should have just offered you a new bike. They didn't, lemon law time.

Everyone makes the occasional lemon. What counts is how it's dealt with.

I have to ask - what condition is your 30A ('hidden' fuse for MP3 owners) connectors and fuse itself in? I don't know the GTS, but *if* they have used the new-style Piaggio starter relay, that's where you'll find it. This answer may be way off-beam, but that's because I haven't got one outside right now to look at.

So all the batteries, stators and regulators may have been just fine...

Anyone actually with a GTS have better knowledge?

google "texas lemon laws"-but read it really carefully.
do it now. While I don't think of Texas as being a big consumer advocate state it is worth checking out . you probably won't have to worry about utilizing it, as hopefully your dealer and Piaggio will be cool and do the right thing. I mention your dealer b/c they need to advocate for you with Piaggio. Assuming your dealer is not missing something easy, a true lemon is rare but needs to be dealt with. Let them figure it out in the lab while you get a new scooter.

that said, sorry- it totally sucks being w/o a scooter. I have been there many moons ago. Without going into detail thank goodness Pride of Cleveland scooters and Genuine Scooters totally rock. A great dealer and scooter company are a good combo.

over the years I have heard bad things about Piaggio regarding matters like this. Keep us publically posted how this is handled.

The scoot is unride-able for you from the perspective that you will never trust it again. It doesn't matter if this time they get it right, you've lost faith in the scoot's reliability.

Lemon law it. If they can fix it, more power to 'em, but I wouldn't hesitate to trade it in for a new one.

You've been patient enough in my opinion, and it's your life and limb at risk here. Chalk it up to something that missed the QC production step.

From the Texas web site:
The law presumes you have given the manufacturer or authorized dealer a reasonable number of attempts to fix the defect if you pass one of these tests. The mileage requirements generally do not apply to TRVs.

Four-times test

If you have taken the vehicle to a dealership for repairs:

* two times for the same problem or defect within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first, and
* twice more during the 12 months or 12,000 miles after the second repair attempt, and
* the problem is still not repaired

you pass the four-times test.

Serious-safety-hazard test

If you have taken the vehicle for repair of a serious safety hazard:

* once during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first, and
* once more during the 12 months or 12,000 miles following the first repair attempt, and
* the problem is still not repaired

you pass the serious-safety-hazard test.

30-days test

If your vehicle has been out of service for repair because of problems covered by the warranty:

* for a total of 30 days or more, not necessarily all at one time, during the first 24 months or 24,000 miles, and
* there were two repair attempts during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles immediately after delivery, and
* a substantial problem still exists

you pass the 30-days test.

If a comparable loaner vehicle was provided while the vehicle was being repaired, that time does not count toward the 30 days.

I wonder if it's the dealer. The last lemon law problem I heard on here was a dealer not replacing what they should. However, I can't think of anything, except for maybe fuses, like Jim mentioned, that could be causing a problem. I am no expert, or even really a novice, at repairing Vespas, so do not take my comments seriously But back to the dealer, I am having some difficulties getting my scoot repaired properly after dropping it. I am using your dealer's sister dealership. I have been without my scoot for about 2 months now. Mine is mainly due to paint issues though.

Good luck. I hope things work out the way you want. I am sorry that it is getting to be a hassle.

Most lemon law cases come down to tech's throwing parts at problems they don't understand. Don't feel bad get your self a new bike. You will never trust it again. Sorry to here your story. Good luck
Chris

If techs aren't given access to info, they'll not learn or find out what else is going on in the rest of the world.

The two best dealers I've used gave everyone complete access to the internet. Not on the main network, natch...

Wow...I had the same problem...I have an 07' GTS....the bike just died when I was out somewhere...returning a video to Blockbuster and it died...Roadside assistance was useless as it took forever that night and when he showed up, he had a flatbed with two cars in tow and couldn't take my bike anywhere...he tried jumpstarting it with a portable charger...it started and died about 5 seconds later...turns out, it was my Voltage Regulator...I wound up pushing the bike home about 3 1/2 miles...only to have it flatbedded a week ago to the Vespa dealer...he fixed the VR under warranty...sorry to hear about your bike but I understand that feeling that you might get stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere and how can you trust your bike if this keeps happening...I would go to another dealer to get it fixed....just in case you need it ever, Vespa Roadise Assistance phone number is: 1 (866) 232-0083 and I think this is the same number used nationally...just in case you need it. I also bought a new battery and of course later discovered that it went bad from the bad VR..otherwise, it wouldn't have failed yet.

I may be wrong but I don't think motorcycles or powersports our covered with CA lemon law.

They are. I have the attorney's website link explaining it at work and can send it to you tomorrow if you need it.

Thanks, but I'm good Vespa is solid and my HD Street Glide runs hot but I love it. well on 2nd thought I'd like to read it just in case.

A Harley SE filter kit, V&H Fuel Pak and slip ons made my Dyna (96 cube motor) run much cooler.

Here's the link:
http://www.normantaylor.com/

Wow ... I'm really sorry to hear this. I am having a spot of trouble with my brand new, fuel injected LX125. It dies at idle. I really hope I don't have a loooong stretch of frustration ahead of me in trying to get the problem sorted out! I'm waiting to hear back from my dealer as to what to do. For now ... it is just sitting in my driving looking lonely and waiting to be repaired.

Whatever happens ... good luck! I hope Piaggio does the right thing!

Hope you get it sorted soon

My Piaggio has been great - may be you got an early monday last of friday build

thanks for all the replies. i don't have a large motorcycle mechanical knowledge base so i'm really at the mercy of the mechanics, but i appreciate the suggestions. i do feel like i have lost faith in the bike and that's a crappy feeling. i'm doing my best not to let the anger take over. partially because the bike died but mostly the dealer let me hang for so long. clearly i wasn't a priority until I called the piaggio people in new york. anyway, i should know something this week. i'll let everyone know how it turns out. have fun scootin for me and be safe!! [/b]

i've dealt with alamo heights vespa and the customer service is pretty crappy. i'm just glad i never had to deal with the problem you have. you should have been given a new bike like yesterday. vespa sure does make it hard to support vespa sometimes. if had been treated the way you have i'd be picketing out in front of alamo heights vespa shortly after i called my lawyer. just remember they need our business, we don't need their's. the internet is a powerful thing my friend.............good luck

i definitely have a contigency plan in mind and it will definitely not do anything to help business for piaggio or my local dealer. but at this point they still have a chance do what is right. i know when i was in the market for a gts (my first one) i did a lot of reading on forums and message boards. i'm pretty sure my story would kill a few vespa sales. on the other hand i'd be more than happy to write that piaggio came through and corrected their mistake and gave me what i paid for. we'll know soon enough............

Go to the courthouse, get the needed paperwork, go to the dealer, and fill it out. Your HD is running a little lean is all.

i've already started getting the paperwork together.............

I think it's awesome that you guys have lemon laws as we don't. And although my problem with my scoot are nothing compared with yours, keep losing my low beams and 2 dealers and a million visits all say they have fixed it but 3 months later it's gone again. I can't afford to keep taking time off work periodically to drop off the scoot to get fixed. Because of this other smaller stuff like extremely thin paint, sticky horn buttons, minor cracks appearing in the bodywork etc on a new scoot purchased in January just add up and makes me want to trade my commuter bike for a CT110 "postie bike"

dgibsonmusic, if you can use the lemon law go for it. If you can't, then go to another dealer and trade it in for something that you will enjoy. Sounds like you have earned it.

Sounds like the solenoid wires are reversed. You battery is draining and not getting charged by the stator. Put a volt meter on your bettery terminals. You should get a reading of slightly more than 12 volts...start the bike and take a reading and see if it over 13 volts...then rev the bike (not too much so it resonates off the centerstand) take a reading . It should increase but not go over 15 volts (over 15 is too much and will overcharge you battery).
Let me know how you make out.

those voltage readings were done by at least 2 or 3 different mechanics and i was told that the voltage readings were way off. i was then told that this problem was fixed each time. the bike is not in my possession at this time (dealer has it) so i can't do the test myself. i'll mention that to them but the bike has been taken apart so many times at this point i just want them to buy it back or replace it. i do appreciate the advice and i'll let you know what they say.

voltage smoltage..........it's time for manufacturer to step up (past time actually!). i wouldn't so much as push the seat release button. some dealers are worse than others, fact of life, but now that piaggio knows about what's been going on it's time for them to make it right. i'm so sick of these companies turning their backs on the consumer. i mean if this is how they treat their customers in need why not just buy a cheap chinese scooter. why not roll the $1500 dice instead of the $7000 dice? i am really curious how this turns out. i am just about to turn my back on vespa and i have plenty of scooter riding friends who are not into getting screwed either. good luck buddy

+1

You remind me this was a problem with some other bikes on occasion, early US MP3s in particular.

A good check of the actual (not assumed) connections on the starter solenoid will confirm if this is the case. A swap of the battery cable and cable to starter on the solenoid will produce just this effect - but only with the new type of solenoids, and I know not what sort the OP has, there are no pics. Oh - and this would make sure the 'hidden fuse' had blown, for certain on that type of solenoid.

I agree whole heartedly with this. You've been patient and I don't see how them having one more shot at it will help. If it meets your states lemon law criteria, then you'll never look at it as a good scoot so get a new one.

JimC... theres no hidden fuse on the starter relay, its the old school 4 pin 80amp relay on the GTS models, not the more "bike world" known solenoid type.

When it wont start after a few days, is the battery actually flat... or just acting like it is?

Thanks CT.

the battery is actually flat i believe. this is what i've been told by the dealer and i know that it's been replaced 3 times.

I'm sorry to hear of your constant mechanical troubles. Good luck with whatever action you take to recover your losses. If the problem is as you say, that the battery charge depletes after a short time, it shouldn't be hard to track down and fix. The basic procedure is to systematically disconnect electrical components, while monitoring the battery current drain.

you are right, it shouldn't be hard to track down and fix. but i'm not a mechanically savy person and i've had to rely on what i've been told by the mechanics. the way it was explained to me was that the electrical charging system only has so many components and it shouldn't be a hard fix. multiple mechanics and the piaggio technical expert from new york are baffled by this. thanks for the advice. i'll mention it and some of the other suggestions that have been posted to the mechanic when i stop by today.

True, but your scooter's problem probably isn't with the charging system. It's more likely another component that's draining the charge from your battery while your scooter is dormant.

i think you're right and i think that they are of the same opinion which is one of the reasons they were messing with/changing the fuel injector or something in the fuel injection system. at any rate i'm done with this particular bike. i've pretty much lost all confidence in this bike. i'm either going the lemon law route or hoping that they just buy it back. i may try my luck with another vespa later but i'm not feeling so hot about them right now. thanks again.......

i'm sorry if the truth offends you...........

the firefighters i work with back each other no matter what. that's the difference between them and the rest of the world. i want you to know you've helped to destroy a vespa community that we had going here. we can't support anybody that treats people like this.

In a fire situation, it can mean the difference between life and death! So of course you have to have each other's backs. The fact that not everybody is falling over themselves to agree how shitty your dealer is shouldn't affect you this hard. I thought firefighters were thick-skinned?

It's the internet. The opinions of others should have no effect on how you feel about your own scooter

*feels incredibly smug about having a slow-ass 2T carb-fed scooter with a kick starter. It's not fast, but it should work no matter what*

OK now you're just getting weird. Signing up once again under a new alias and having a conversation with yourself is just nuts.

Just a quick thought:

You've mentioned that you perused the forum for info when you decided to buy, but you couldn't be bothered in over a year of ownership in registering on Modern Vespa. Instead, when you felt you you got screwed over by Vespa, you registered. I'm very sorry about your problems, but you couldn't give the Vespa community the time of day, until you thought you could use us. What sense of community have you displayed? Did you ever have any other Vespa owner's back? Have you ever expressed any sympathy when other scooterists are hurt or injured?

Now you've registered multiple accounts to Troll the board. Look somewhere else for the solution to your problems. I don't think you're achieving anything productive here.


Good Luck!

Harvey

Sorry to hear that

I had similar problem only 2 months after I bought my new GTS 125 I had to take it to service 3 times! - immobilizer stopped working and bike wouldn't start. Head Piaggion technician was called to fix it finally and he succeded.

That time I was fighting for getting a new bike, but the dealer didn't want to hear about it. Said Piaggio would never replace a bike. Another dealer told me they had new Vespa that spend full 2 months in service in the first 3 months of its existence and Piaggio still didn't allow them to replace the bike!!!

As I was reading through cutomer protection laws in UK, i found out that if a problem on a car is fixed within the warranty and it then happens again, you have right to ask for a replacement. However, this is for cars, no mention of scooters It is similar in US, isn't it.

I love Vespas, but the customer service once something goes very wrong is the worst I have ever experienced with any company. For the premium price we pay for Vespas, it is a real shame.

I wish you good luck and hope you'll succeed to get a new bike.