OP
@dullivan avatar
UTC

Hooked
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
So, we know we're going to have to weld in a piece to make up the difference when we cut some of the cancer out of Sunny. I'll post a picture or two of exactly what we're dealing with here at the bottom. My question is, dad seems to think there should be "patch pieces" that we can get that are shaped correctly to replace something like this that we can just cut to fit our hole and weld in. I wasn't so sure because Vespa have the famous unibody frames. Has anyone heard of anything like this? If they don't exist, do you think it would be a better idea to try and find an old frame we can hack up (expensive methinks!) or just grab a piece of steel and make due? The piece we're trying to replace is probably going to be about 2 inches wide, top to bottom, and maybe two feet long? I'm totally guessing on that measurement. Any suggestions?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
What's probably happened there is that the battery boiled over, and acid poured down into that and rotted it out with sulferic acid. There's a lot of bikes of that era with the same rot.

Can't you just weld in a section of sheet metal in it's place? I mean, this isn't going to be a show bike...and it's going to be covered up by the glovebox anyways...

just a thought.
OP
@dullivan avatar
UTC

Hooked
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
Rover Eric wrote:
What's probably happened there is that the battery boiled over, and acid poured down into that and rotted it out with sulferic acid. There's a lot of bikes of that era with the same rot.

Can't you just weld in a section of sheet metal in it's place? I mean, this isn't going to be a show bike...and it's going to be covered up by the glovebox anyways...

just a thought.
Yeah, that's what I thought we'd end up doing, but Dad's convinced since it came from the battery, other people must've had the same problem, so there should be patch kits out there, similar to floorboard replacement kits. You're right. She definitely won't be a beauty queen, but we want to do it as right as possible, so we're trying to figure out what our options are.

It was definitely battery acid though. The floor of the cowl where that thing used to sit is completely gone (I think I posted a picture of that here before) and everything's all bubbly around there. Once we get to that point, I'm definitely going to do the 12v conversion so something like this never happens again.
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
i can assure you that short of gutting another frame.... which would have to be one that's somewhat similar ( sprint / super / GT, basically )... you're not going to find a "patch kit" as you describe.

There wouldn't even be the floorboard replacement kits you see, if the vietnamese hadn't started repopping those because of the jungle climate and leaving their bikes outside 24/7 hadn't rotted out all their frames!

Those weren't ever an italian-produced item, AFAIK.
OP
@dullivan avatar
UTC

Hooked
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
Ouch. Didn't know floorboards weren't a standard replacement part. Oh well, as long as they're metal and the welding's done right, it shouldn't be a big issue. The only thing that I'm not excited about with replacing that strip behind the cowl is that my VIN is gone. I've still got it on the plate up front, but those pop off so easily. Maybe I can use dad's old engraver and put it on there just in case. It might not look good, but it'll work.
UTC

nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
 
nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
UTC quote
hi dully, i hav'nt talked to you in a while

i'm glad you got yourself a scoot

vespa yellow is one of my favs, classic

metal work is fun

remember that sheet metal of this gauge responds differently to heat

shrinkage or ribboning

you will need a good 4" grinder too

have fun
@hp avatar
UTC

Addicted
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 837
Location: Seoul
 
Addicted
@hp avatar
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 837
Location: Seoul
UTC quote
I'd call around to some shops... and post up some wanted ads on various boards. There must be some seriously knackered frames out there, whether from accidents or other failures, from which you could cut out that section of panel. That way at least you'd have the proper stampings and brackets in place on that side.

Starting to feel a little sympathy for the bodgers now aren't we! Razz emoticon
@vezpa avatar
UTC

Banned
Vespa GTS 300 Super & Vespa P125X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4134
Location: St. Petersburg Florida
 
Banned
@vezpa avatar
Vespa GTS 300 Super & Vespa P125X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4134
Location: St. Petersburg Florida
UTC quote
Dullivan wrote:
Ouch. Didn't know floorboards weren't a standard replacement part. Oh well, as long as they're metal and the welding's done right, it shouldn't be a big issue. The only thing that I'm not excited about with replacing that strip behind the cowl is that my VIN is gone. I've still got it on the plate up front, but those pop off so easily. Maybe I can use dad's old engraver and put it on there just in case. It might not look good, but it'll work.
You can actually buy a vin stamper and re-stamp the vin into the new area.
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2633
 
Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2633
UTC quote
VEZPA wrote:
Dullivan wrote:
Ouch. Didn't know floorboards weren't a standard replacement part. Oh well, as long as they're metal and the welding's done right, it shouldn't be a big issue. The only thing that I'm not excited about with replacing that strip behind the cowl is that my VIN is gone. I've still got it on the plate up front, but those pop off so easily. Maybe I can use dad's old engraver and put it on there just in case. It might not look good, but it'll work.
You can actually buy a vin stamper and re-stamp the vin into the new area.
Where can you buy one of those?
@vp1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1416
Location: San Diego
 
Molto Verboso
@vp1 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1416
Location: San Diego
UTC quote
Check mcmaster.com
look for punch sets.
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
Which is why you can't trust a vietbodge VIN.

Dully, I think you can do it. And I think you can make the sheet-metal look good too if you go that route... as Eric pointed out, it's going to be hidden by the glovebox anyway.
OP
@dullivan avatar
UTC

Hooked
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
My uncle has been a master welder for years so I'm not worried about the work, just the materials. I was just trying to figure out what would be easier, because it seemed like just picking up a kit would be the best idea, but if they don't exist, we'll just use sheet metal. I definitely agree that it's behind the cowl, so looks don't matter, just the quality of the job.
UTC

Lurker
Looking for Matching VBB's
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2
Location: Atlanta GA
 
Lurker
Looking for Matching VBB's
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2
Location: Atlanta GA
UTC quote
Dullivan wrote:
My uncle has been a master welder for years so I'm not worried about the work, just the materials. I was just trying to figure out what would be easier, because it seemed like just picking up a kit would be the best idea, but if they don't exist, we'll just use sheet metal. I definitely agree that it's behind the cowl, so looks don't matter, just the quality of the job.
I'm the guy that owns the Super that was at Matt's when you picked up yours! It's named Daisy (what is it about a yellow vespa that makes you want to name it?). Good luck, but if you change your mind, mine only need a little work and already runs!

And no you can't have my floor. I'm using it.
@danyouhandleit avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1967 Gran Turismo 1963 Lambretta S3 TV175 1971 Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1403
Location: Minneapolis
 
Molto Verboso
@danyouhandleit avatar
1967 Gran Turismo 1963 Lambretta S3 TV175 1971 Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1403
Location: Minneapolis
UTC quote
Dully, you gotta post some more pix as you go.
OP
@dullivan avatar
UTC

Hooked
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
danyouhandleit wrote:
Dully, you gotta post some more pix as you go.
You got it. I finally started my project thread over here: Sunny - Dullivan's Super 150 Project Thread

Now, any suggestions on how to get the clutch handlebar to turn freely? We're working on the cylinder by letting it soak in some sort of spray my dad has, but we have no idea how to treat the handlebar. The only way you can turn it is via rubber mallet, which isn't very convenient while riding.
@ktmdriver avatar
UTC

Hooked
SS-180 x 1 (dead) SS-180 x1 (3'rd times the charm)SS-90 x 1 GS-160 MK1 x 1 P-200e x1 TV 175 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 237
Location: San Diego, California
 
Hooked
@ktmdriver avatar
SS-180 x 1 (dead) SS-180 x1 (3'rd times the charm)SS-90 x 1 GS-160 MK1 x 1 P-200e x1 TV 175 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 237
Location: San Diego, California
UTC quote
Okay where do I start? First of all the best method to get rid of all the rust and see what you are really working with is chemically dip the frame and make sure that it is still a viable candidate for restoration. You don't want the frame to buckle at speed causing you to become one with roadway if you know what I mean. The Vespa frame/fuselage requires structural rigidity to be safe, any rust compromising certain sections is asking for disaster. I lived in Hawaii and have dealt with rust far worse than any Florida rust and know when things are beyond repair and that frame is pushing the safety envelope. A new frame from a scooter shop might be the best fix here.

Secondly the frozen piston has become one with the cylinder and will probably need to be pressed out with a hydraulic press, but first that will require you having to remove the cylinder from the case. You may need to cut the crank and more to get that thing off. I would be surprised if any secret sauce mix will do anything to un-stick that piston. Have you removed the flywheel yet ?

Third, it seems that you still have the clip that hold the shifting tube still connected. Remove the clip and work the tube off the headset with you mallet if need be.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
to get the shifter free:

1. turn it (via mallet? be careful!) to where you can pull the pin out (under the handlebars).

2. pull out the part that holds the shifter cables (inside the headset). it will slide out from inside the tube.

3. spray lots of wd-40 on the shifter tube... just keep working it until it comes out. it will get a little easier when the part inside the headset is free...

looks like there's lots of rust/grit on the shifter tube... if you can get it free enough to spin, you might want to clean it as much as possible with steel wool (or something?) the clearance on the handlebar is tight, and anything adding to the diameter is going to make it more difficult...

then again... you could try to find another headset. looks like there's a big chunk missing in the casting where the speedo goes!

have you thought about getting another frame? that one is so rotted away , very close to the engine mount!

i wonder of this guy still has his Bajaj frame. it's basically the same. Think it's a Chetak (same as Sprint). It's possible that Sprint and Super frames are the same (just different cowls/fender?)

http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=17647
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@dullivan avatar
UTC

Hooked
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 292
Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
Thanks for the tips. I didn't see that little clip in there until I was taking pictures afterwards. The accelerator side came free so easily, we weren't even looking for anything like that, just taking off anything we could get unscrewed (and some things we couldn't...rusty bolts + Dremel tool = good times) and were towards the end of the day when we were doing that part, so I guess we weren't paying enough attention.
ktmdriver wrote:
Secondly the frozen piston has become one with the cylinder and will probably need to be pressed out with a hydraulic press, but first that will require you having to remove the cylinder from the case. You may need to cut the crank and more to get that thing off. I would be surprised if any secret sauce mix will do anything to un-stick that piston. Have you removed the flywheel yet ?
I really hope I don't have to bust up that cylinder or cut anything to get it out, but if that's the case, then that's what we'll go with. It'll need a new piston for sure, but I was hoping to save the cylinder. I'll let y'all know how it goes. And no, we haven't pulled the flywheel yet. Dad seems to think he can rig up something so we can pull it without having to buy that tool. I trust the guy, but sometimes I wonder if he hasn't become a bit of a shade tree mechanic over the years. Then again, with my financial situation, that's probably a good thing anyway.
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Typically, a seized top end can be freed with just a hydraulic press. ( even a cheap harbor freight one )

It is a bit of a bitch to get the cylinder and crankshaft free of the engine, though... you gotta remove cylinder studs and such.

If you try to hammer out the cylinder, you might cave in the piston and shatter it. I've seen that done a bunch, too.

Shouldn't be any need to CUT anything... and the cylinder should be able to be bored out to an oversize, and you can run the corresponding new piston and rings to match that oversize.
@joshzingzing avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@joshzingzing avatar
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
UTC quote
eucalyptus oil for rust seized bits
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0288s ][ Queries: 5 (0.0158s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]