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So,
I got off the phone yesterday with the county Traffic Signal Operations Zone Engineer as we were going over signal timing and pedestrian priorities, and we briefly touched upon motorcycle/scooter usage.

Here is what he explained regarding the inductive loops that are in the pavement:

Motorcycles/scooters need to sit on/over the loop line in the ground, not pass over it into the box to trigger the light.

If you are not vertically above the line in the ground, the signal will think the 'car' has left and not start the clock to countdown to change the light.

Seth
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I am going to start dragging a huge metal plate behind me to activate the lights.

Wayne B
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They have their loops misadjusted or outdated.

Loops here in Sacramento that are properly adjusted will pick up cyclists with little or no metal, let alone steel, going over them. Few intersections are not set right, they will make you wait.

Nice of him to tell you how to compensate for not setting it right or having old gear that can't be set right[/i]
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Good info, thanks Seth!
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I'm going to do a Wiki on this at some point... 

This has come up recently in other places; the dreaded magnet controversy was dredged up on ModernBuddy. I'd be interested to hear what your contact has to say about use of magnets to trigger sensors.

There are different types of inductive loop sensors in use; some cities (like LA) may use different ones depending on who got the contract for that particular road project.

Here's a diagram here showing where to position a bike or scooter to trigger the sensor:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Source, with more details and explanation:
http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Re: are you in the loop
sethwas wrote:
Motorcycles/scooters need to sit on/over the loop line in the ground, not pass over it into the box to trigger the light.

Seth
I do that every time I stop. More often than not ... no go.
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Revving your engine while sitting over the wire helps to, it increases the magnetic field a bit (stator) and triggers the light sooner.

At least thats what it says in my Big Book of Scooter BS and other Trivial Minutiae. Page 55.

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I just turned left on a red today as the light wouldn't change. I waited for a few revolutions, I'm pretty sure it's legal here - but probably up to a cop regardless. This intersection is crap and old and try to avoid taking a left at this light but sometimes I have to take it as it's the quickest route from point A to B.

Hopefully they will redo this intersection and put in better trigger controls as I have tried on the scoot and motorcycyle and still no luck. I'm not a magnet theory kinda guy and hope this age old question is answered someday.
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If you bunny hop your Vespa, will that work?
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UTC quote
ericalm wrote:
I'm going to do a Wiki on this at some point... 

There are different types of inductive loop sensors in use; some cities (like LA) may use different ones depending on who got the contract for that particular road project.

Here's a diagram here showing where to position a bike or scooter to trigger the sensor:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Source, with more details and explanation:
http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm
I love the diagonal quadrapole ones, never have to worry about triggering them whether on bike or scoot, they always work!
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Geo-Vesp wrote:
I just turned left on a red today as the light wouldn't change. I waited for a few revolutions, I'm pretty sure it's legal here - but probably up to a cop regardless.
You're safe. From https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=169.06 :
Quote:
Subd. 9.Affirmative defense relating to unchanging traffic-control signal. (a) A person operating a motorcycle who violates subdivision 4 by entering or crossing an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal against a red light has an affirmative defense to that charge if the person establishes all of the following conditions:
(1) the motorcycle has been brought to a complete stop;

(2) the traffic-control signal continues to show a red light for an unreasonable time;

(3) the traffic-control signal is apparently malfunctioning or, if programmed or engineered to change to a green light only after detecting the approach of a motor vehicle, the signal has apparently failed to detect the arrival of the motorcycle; and

(4) no motor vehicle or person is approaching on the street or highway to be crossed or entered or is so far away from the intersection that it does not constitute an immediate hazard.

(b) The affirmative defense in this subdivision applies only to a violation for entering or crossing an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal against a red light and does not provide a defense to any other civil or criminal action.
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Molto Verboso
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we ahve much the same problem in the UK, but I fine that if I get our lass to follow me everywhere in the car it helps, plus of course as I'm riding the scoot it saves on petrol as I would normally take the car!
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It's fairly rare here to be truthful, but does happen at some lights. These would be defective though, our sensors (whether inductive or radiation sensors) are *meant* to be able to detect someone on a bicycle. I don't know what the practice is now, but when they installed/adjusted sensors a few years ago a man would walk along the road holding a small galvanised steel bucket - if it detected him the system was deemed good to go.
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I've been trying it out since yesterday and seems to be working. I pull up over the line lengthwise and it seems to trigger the light.

Seth

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