Modern Vespa

Ok its that time I have a 16 year old son and I was hoping to give him the Black GTS 250ie that I fixed. when I tell people of my plan the look at me like I'm crazy then tell me " are you trying to kill him " Now I ride and I ride far and hard so I don't see the danger of it. I think that it will help him grow up a bit. feed back please

Him
good grades
Football JV
Wrestling team and track
2nd deg black belt.

and he is a good boy all in all no drinking or drugs his only vice is Gaming on the computer.

So would you give a GTS to a 16 Y.O kid?

Hmmm ... that's a tough one, but probably not. I was a good kid too, but I remember doing some pretty risky and stupid things in my car when I was 16. Can't imagine what I might have done on a 250cc scooter!

You know him best. If you don't think he is likely to risk life and limb (the way I did on a few occassions ) then go for it! Just be certain he wears the gear!

Yes.

I did to both my boys. Gave them some independence *and* some responsibility, plus a little glow of 'Now I'm growing up and my folks recognise this'. Just make damn sure you slap them down for everything else though!

I think it all depends on maturity and you know him best. I do believe you have to give responsibility to learn responsibility so it could be a good thing.

That's a tough one. Coming from someone who is not yet a parent, but who hopes to share the 2-wheeled experience with my kids some day, AND who is overly neurotic and protective when it comes to ideas like these (letting a 16yo ride/drive/fly), I say yes. Take the MSF course with him, set boundaries, and let him give it a shot.

As a self-proclaimed "hard rider," he already has his perceptions (learned from you, Dad) about what riding is all about. If you want him to follow in your footsteps, albeit safely, he needs to learn. The MSF course will start the process, and you can continue it by riding with him.

Expecting that he will have 0 incidents - be them scratches, scrapes, or all-out totaling of the bike - is probably not in the cards. It doesn't take a bad rider to have an accident, just the wrong set of circumstances.

I think what's most important is that you discuss it as a family. Hear what his expectations are if he learns to ride, hear your wife out on the matter, speak your mind, and then go from there. I've found that things often go the most smoothly when everyone's on the same page...

I had a mini bike and almost killed myself. However i was 10 or 11. I was a good kid and also had guns,taught safety in everything but i was still a kid. I would start him out on a 50cc. I know you can kill yourself on almost anything but if the temptation arises you can only go so fast on a 50cc. He would also be limited to secondary roads. If he hasn't ridden before you have given him a scooter that he can ride on freeways with. Not such a good idea. Trucks people doing 90mph etc. Kids at that age still don't realize consequences. Some adults don't but they have lived long enough to weigh the risks wheras kids haven't. Sart em out small and work him up to the larger CC. Good luck

For sure and a 250cc is perfect for a beginner.

Get him into some rider training for peace of mind though.

Thanks guys, I am a very safe rider and I would expect the same from my son. the MSF class is a must for a minor here in CA, I myself completed the class and plan to become a rider coach someday.

16 years old no highways to many thing could go wrong.
250 - 80 mph to much
50 to small if you trust him
150 good start give him a year no crashes bump him up.
I have two boys age 2 and 4 I have some time before I have to make these choices and they will be some of the hardest I think I will ever have to make.
I will have to live with what happen for a long time if thing go wrong.
Jim is on to something but I think 80 mph is to much for a new young rider.
Good luck
Chris

I say yes! As you said the training and protective gear is a must. I would probably ride with him a few times to observe his skills before I would set him free. Also at first, maybe no highways, rain or nights. Good luck, it sounds like you have a boy to be very proud of.

I would do some serious observation of skills before I considered it. I am sure some kids are very capable, others need a lot of growing up or experience.
and as we know there are some people that should never ride.

Get him a Lambretta. You wont have to worry about him going very far at all. He will need a bus pass too.

Here's my .02. I say no, but you know him better than anyone. Kids change ALOT from 16 to 18. My boys are 22 and 20 and we live in So. Cal. SOME of the reason is for them but MOST of it is for the idiots on the road here. I worry about my kids in a car (not about their driving, they are both very safe, no tickets or accidents knock on wood). I see these big SUV's around here and no one obeys the cell phone law. I have a few friends that drive those big trucks and they have the attitude that my car is bigger get out of my way and they even say that. Kids don't understand they are vulnerable and especially boys. Start him on something smaller if he wants to ride.

Definitely not!!!

One small problem can turn into a life changing (or death) event on a GTS that is in the wrong hands. Compare that to a car. Mistakes are much more forgiving...meaning that an accident could cause a lot of damage to the car, but car can be replaced. Your son cannot be replaced!

See Cashed and Burned as a grim example of how quick a mishap can happen.

By virtue of the fact that he's 16, he hasn't experienced numerous things which will contribute to as safe a riding experience as possible. ie-several years or even months of simply understanding traffic, other drivers, etc from behind the wheel (of a cage).

IMO, as a parent as well, I believe in an abundance of caution AND experience in traffic in a car (risky enough) before sending him out on two-wheels.

There are certain milestones in life that are best left till the "time is right", a 16 yo riding in So-Cal traffic on 2 wheels doesn't seem the the right time....to me, again IMO.

You state that you ride, and "don't see the danger in it"....you are allowed to feel that way about yourself (although regrettfully I disagree...I DO see the danger in it, and CHOOSE to do so anyway...but I'm 50, not 16) but thats the type of choice an adult of legal age should make.

Buy him an Edsel...

I would agree with Judy - Start him on a 50cc... Maybe an old beater one, just to see how he acts... If he seems responsible after a few months, then do what feels right in upgrading him to a 150-250cc scooter... and for sure, run him through the msf...

Best to you (and your son!)

Desi B.

A simple perspective from a parent and someone who works at a dealership (who has seen adults that do not belong on two wheel vehicles):
Send him to a professional DOL sanctioned Motorcycle Training Course. This may even be required by law in your area. This will sort out his riding abilities or lack of from a third party. Then you have piece of mind that you not only had him trained properly and taught him those all so important defensive driving skill necessary to survive riding a two wheeled vehicle in traffic. It is a mistake to underestimate the youth of today, the have such an enormous access to information and knowledge miles ahead of where geezers like me where at at his age. Plus, at 16 with a GTS, he will be a stud with the ladies and you will put him so far ahead as far as social opportunities as we know scooters are a conversation piece and a friend maker. Think of all the cuties asking him for a ride. He will forget he even owns a gaming system.
Brad

As a parent, I would probably lean towards no, but will admit that in my family, lots of the kids start riding off-road with similarly powered machines even earlier. I agree with the comments above about having him do the MSF course and doing lots of observation. Facilitating this journey will allow you some control over the risk since you are involved, whereas other dangers that he will get into with his friends next year you won't be able to see and control. Good luck - this can't be an easy decision!

I would say no, the potential consequences are too horrible to imagine, never mind try to go on living your life with. A moments inattention, either from your son or more likely a distracted cager, could really change your future.
If you must, I agree with the other posters and would suggest a 50cc, then perhaps a 125 in a year. Hell, I'm 46 and I have a 125, a 150 and a 200 and those are as fast as I'll ever need to go on a scooter.

Good luck with your decision and thanks for asking for opinions (as opposed as they are )

I love that Lammy solution!

LMFAO! What a load of wusses.

If the parents decide the young man is 'sensible' then by all means let them go ahead (but I do fully agree that training [and the more the better] is a Good Thing).

I refer the wimpy 'dettox' crowd to the Crash'n'Burn topic...

Crash and burn was the reason for my post. when I see her looking so sad I just think that could have been my kid. casuing me to have reevaluate the scooter thing for him. one more thing my son and I have very little in common I was hoping to ride with him on my days off.

So there we have it - one set of wusses seeing the C'n'B thread as a reason NOT to allow young folk out on their own, and another set (inc me) seeing it as a delight that young people can learn for themselves.

I'm very glad my folks never had their qualms about my younger exploits expressed on the 'net.

When the young man joins MV (as I hope he will to learn a little) how will you cover your tracks?

I did give my son a scoot to ride at 16 and 9 months, friends said the same thing to me, and I wondered for a while if I had done the right thing.
The benefits were a sense of independence and freedom, it made him a far better car driver when he got his car license. A comment from other parents, was that they were more than happy to have my son drive their kids around, as they considered him a safe driver.
Coggo

Jim, I am going to enroll him in the MSF class and he will ride. maybe just not my lovely GTS 250. I may get him a smaller vespa or maybe a ruckus. I love riding and I hope he won't have to wait tell he is to old to really enjoy it.

I agree with this. There are some 16-year olds are more mature than half the politicians I hear, and there are some 50-year-olds who really shouldn't be allowed out in public.

I also think you should have a good discussion about how dangerous it can actually be, and to respect the scooter as a real and proper vehicle. Definately get him into an MSF course if at all possible, and teach him that while it might not look quite as cool, proper gear is very important.

If you believe he is ready for such a responsibility this young, then I would have to say you've got a pretty good kid. Let's hope he's one of those people who stays that way and makes the world a slightly better place, be it with a Vespa or without.

My son is 6'0" and 260lbs so I don't think a 50cc is an option for his size. also I live in so. cal a 50cc is a death sentence. No power to get out of harms way is not good. I will only let him ride if he complete the MSF class and only to and from school.

Thanks everyone. as for my son he is not even wanting to drive whats with kids now a days?

You may want to rethink the size of scooter, make it the ET4
150cc for staters, that would be a good starter scooter. Not too
fast , but fast enough. 8)

Good advice, I can find one local for a good price I'm sure.

Get him a 150. Cheaper. That and after trying a highway on a 150 he's likely to shit his pants and not want to bother again

my daughter will gain access to one of my bikes in the future. One of the sensible ones.

Give him 1/2 or 3/4 a 150. He'll appreciate it more and learn more by having to work a bit for what he wants.


Harvey

I used a bad choice of words. I will have a scooter for him to use If he likes its or earns it. I will sell it to him at a good price @ 18 or 19 years old and he must be in college. to get that deal.

That sounds like a good bargain for everyone concerned!


Harvey

I can empathize with your dilemma, even though my son is only 3. I have a scooter, and my husband does amateur autoracing. So, unless our son just hates transportation of any kind, he will want something that most people consider dangerous. That is one reason that both my husband and I take all necessary precautions and wear the appropriate safety gear. I am hoping that my son can get some car track experience or off-road motorcycle before driving on the streets. It all comes down to training, experience, and exposure. You are just going to have to do what feels comfortable for you. Life is a gamble, and nothing is safe. Just do your best, and try to have fun.

Based on that info, I certainly agree with you that 50cc wouldn't cut it. Sounds like you are headed in the right direction with a Ruckus or other used scoot...

I also agree with where JimC is coming from - I just remembered a bit of my youth when I insisted on riding my bicycle (by myself) on a 2,000 mile cross country trip when I was 16 with about $200 in my pocket in the pre-cell phone days. I wasn't particularly rebellious, but I certainly wasn't aware of my parents concerns or of the particular dangers I probably faced. I survived, it changed my life in ways that affect me to this day in soooo many positive ways.

It certainly doesn't hurt to educate ourselves and the young-uns about risks and safety and such - but there don't seem to be a lot of them out there who even want an adventure in their teenaged lives any more. Makes for a dull bunch of drones all living together in the burbs if ya ask me.

Desi B.

Thanks everyone I wanted information from riders and not non riders that only see the negitive. it seems that we are 50/50 on the subject from members on the forum. when I ask non riders its always a flat out NO. I gave all of you good Karma for your input no matter what side of the fence your on Thank you.

My son is 15 and has been riding my scoots around the backyard and driveway for the last couple of years. He's eagerly awaiting the day when he can ride my scooters with me. I will make him take the MSF course. There's much to be learned there. I feel that people that ride motorcycles or scooter make much better car drivers as well.

You know your son better that anyone. But it is a dangerous proposition. Just make the decision with your eyes wide open.

Some of the lessons I learned about parenting came from my military service. In both endeavors, one finds oneself responsible for the well being of others.

Having weathered, and I think successfully, both parenting and troop leading in combat, I would say that at times, parenting was more frightening than combat. In combat, it was my troops for which I carried a great responsibility, and it was serious stuff. But one's offspring are a bit more precious than one's troops and one would be a liar to say otherwise. Sitting up waiting for a crew to return from a late night, hazardous mission is still not as stressful as waiting for a teen to come home on her first night with the car.

In parenting, I was faced with decisions that I knew could and would have serious implications for two girls that I love with my entire heart and soul. I had to guide them in their formation, try to shape their maturing and values, and protect them from harm. But, one key aspect of protecting one's offspring (or troops) from harm is the preparation we give them for handling life's hazards on their own.

In short, just as there came a time when I had to send aircrews into harm's way and not be present to "protect" them, there also came a time when I hard to let my daughters strike out on their own in certain ways without my physical presence or intervention. The key, in both situations, is the care and guidance given before the fact, and the judgment that must be exercised when selecting those "missions" for which they are competent when it is time to let them do things on their own.

There is no pat answer to your question. You know (at least hopefully you do) your son. Prepare him before the fact for riding. Build his safety awareness before he takes the MSF, so that he sees it as a normal exercise in growing safety awareness, not the "inoculation" that many see it to be. Teens are not all lost causes. They are capable of amazing things when properly prepared. And, yes, they are capable of stupid stuff as well, but the best way to minimize stupid stuff on a PTW is through sensible and thorough training and attitude building.

Until our offspring reach the legal age of adulthood, we are responsible to their well being. We can do it with a straitjacket and then turn them loose at age 18 without a clue. Or, we can invest the time, love and effort to prepare them for the responsibilities they will face and grant them the chance to face these as they mature. Where they show skill and readiness, let them go forward. Where they come up short, rein them in and gracefull correct them.

It's a serious task, but one that we must do, and none of us can really answer for you and your son in anything more than weak hypotheticals. Think about all the agony that often goes into letting them cross a street on their own. You are now at another of these decision points. Trust me, it would be easier to lead or send troops into combat, but it must ultimately be done!

Al

Thanks Al, for taking the time to chime in. thanks for taking the time to pass on some insight.

I like Sonomian's idea a lot! Before setting him off on the streets, you might consider getting him on a dirt bike and teaching him riding skills, off road first. It's something you could both enjoy and perhaps doing it together would bring you closer by providing a common interest.

The MSF course is fine and it does teach students the basics of handling the scooter in a controlled parking lot situation ... but they don't venture out onto the road, so students haven't had a chance to deal with any of the dangers that real traffic poses!

When I came home from Florida after taking my MSF course and took my LX out on the road for the first time ... I was nervous! Not overly so, but nervous just the same. I wished I had had the opportunity to ride with a group or even one other (experienced) person on the streets before going solo.

When I was in Toronto at the Twisted Wheel Scooter Rally, the club had an obstacle course and skills contest. You could set up some courses for him and challenge him to a dual. When he beats you (and he probably will - eventually) ... then he is ready for the road, but only if you are with him for the first few rides. Once you are confident of his skills and safety habits, then turn him loose!

Good luck however you handle it and what he ends up riding.

I know some very very responsible 16 year olds, some much more responsible and coordinated than those older then them. My niece is fifteen, next year she turns 16 and she cannot wait until she can get a scooter to ride to get herself to work and school. I fully believe that she will be fine on a scooter and she will take her safety seriously and learn what she needs to learn to ride safely. I think there are always going to be some who are going to be fine at that age and some who you just know will be a danger to themselves and possibly others. Some people have no fear, that is probably a dangerous attitude to have on two wheels at that age, that is the problem with many teenagers, having no fear. But not all have that trait, I think those without that trait might be fine on a scooter.

I would probably have suggested starting with a 150 cc scooter rather than the power of the 250, but that is just me.